fieldstone on the exterior?

[forgeblast]

Hi all i have a modified a-frame that has t111 for siding and an exposed concrete block for the basement. (the house is an "A" stiting on a square or box) The previous owner, did not have the gutters long enough or put any drainage leading away from the house.
Since that time i have made sure all water is running away from the house and the basement is super dry.
Since the block is covered with a thin layer of cement, i almost want to say stucco, and since it flaked off in places due to the moisture problems that i fixed, i would like to cover or clad it in fieldstone. (to me it looks like they skim coated the cement, and then used stucco or a colored cement product to put a texture on the blocks.)

1. do i have to put a membrand down to keep out water? (can the membrane be elastomeric paint?)

2. or do i just have to put lathe down and skim coat and then start sticking on the fieldstone

3. any issues with fieldstone i should be aware of.....i have walls and walls of it, i will have no problem with matching widths, i have expericence cutting it also.

4. do i need to leave weep holes or will the lathe channel any water away from the house.

5.how do i start the base? do i have to pour a footing or add a steel shelf hanger to start the bottom course?
thanks.

 

[forgeblast]

Wow I think i hear Crickets on this topic. Anyone have any suggestions? Anyone ever put fieldstone on their house?
I am building a fieldstone garden shed, but thats an actual structure not just cladding.

 

[ToadHill]

If you use real fieldstone and not the cultured stuff, you'll need to dig a trench and pour a footer to support the weight. If you don't you are looking at redoing the job in 8 to 10 years.

If you are going to use the cultured stuff, I'd put down a scratch coat with a mesh backing then apply the product.

 

[forgeblast]

thank you, i am going to use the real stuff. would i still use the mesh too?

 

[dave1949]

thank you, i am going to use the real stuff. would i still use the mesh too?

I agree with Toad Hill, the real stuff is so heavy, you will have difficulty keeping it bonded to the block wall if it is just hanging there with no support below it. Think how a brick veneer house is built. There is a brick ledge on the outside of the foundation wall and brick ties nailed to the exterior sheathing to keep the bricks from peeling away from the wall.

If you can duplicate something like that, you will be okay, otherwise, it could have a relatively short life span.
Dave.

 

[forgeblast]

I wonder if putting in a piece of angle iron on the bottom would be better. I could attach it where i wanted to and then backfill?
or do you think the footing is the better way to go?

 

[ToadHill]

What happens to iron in the ground, rust, decay, disaster when the wall falls down.

 

[forgeblast]

Makes sense, I am worried about the footer though, if i dont go deep enough i am going to have frost heave that could crack the mortar joint. Might be a big pita, i might be better off using the elastomeric paint and just doing it in grey.

 

[dave1949]

Makes sense, I am worried about the footer though, if i dont go deep enough i am going to have frost heave that could crack the mortar joint. Might be a big pita, i might be better off using the elastomeric paint and just doing it in grey.

I thought about angle iron too, I rejected that thought because it would mean drilling a series of holes all at the same level across your block wall. That might be inviting a crack.

Also, if you put stone on, be sure to put a drip flashing at the bottom of your siding out over the stone to keep rain and snow melt out.

How thick is the stone - average?
Dave.

 

[JDGreenGrass]

ForgeBlast...

My g/f lives on the southern Maine coast and I just returned from a visit. I saw alll kinds of stone walls and posts with fieldstone. It made me think of this post.

Most of what I saw looked to be mortared in. Can't for the life of me figure how they do it. But, many of the styles I saw were on properties worth a million dollars. The stone walls are gorgeous with the stone laying flat on the vertical walls.

The stone thickness looked to be at least a couple inches. Hard to tell as they are set into the mortar. An inch or 2 exposed.

Can be done.

Good luck.

 

[forgeblast]

The stone is anywhere from 1/4 '' to 3/4'' I have mostly been saving the 1/2'' pieces. Its all sandstone, silt, or mud stone. We have some larger cologamerant pieces of stone in our area but not near us. We are in the bluestone region, a lot of quarries around us.

I talked to some wall builders, and they pour footing and then mortor the stone in place. Its kind of like building a box of stone and filling the inside with the rock you have cut off and is no good. then you put a capstone on it. I will have to try to get a pic of this one house near us, has 10' tall stacked stone(no mortar) bluestone wall, its amazing.

I have my fieldstone shed covered up for the winter otherwise i would post some pictures of it.
I started with digging a foundation 8x8 the foundation is 2' across and 3' deep, sloped to daylight on the one side, with the other sides sloping to that side. Then i put in drain pipe and 2b stone. packed it down as hard as i could. then put in tarpaper and rebar. I poured the cement in and built on that. Its called a rubble foundation frank l. wright used it in a lot of his big buildings.



The inside of the the foundation is still dirt, i will dig it out and put in a paverstone or brick surface. The walls are just fieldstone that i have cut and mortared in place. They are 12 inches thick. I am 4' up on the one side with a window in place and 2 1/2 feet up on the others. I figured while im cutting and using stone for this i might as well put some aside for the house.

What worries me is that i saw some articles on how people have messed up putting the cultured stone on their houses and caused more water problems. I was also thinking about the holes for the angle iron, but then i wondered about using stainless steel fastners, and stainless angle iron?

I watch rock solid all the time. Its a great diy show.

 

[dave1949]

The stone is anywhere from 1/4 '' to 3/4'' I have mostly been saving the 1/2'' pieces. Its all sandstone, silt, or mud stone. We have some larger cologamerant pieces of stone in our area but not near us. We are in the bluestone region, a lot of quarries around us.

I talked to some wall builders, and they pour footing and then mortor the stone in place. Its kind of like building a box of stone and filling the inside with the rock you have cut off and is no good. then you put a capstone on it. I will have to try to get a pic of this one house near us, has 10' tall stacked stone(no mortar) bluestone wall, its amazing.

I have my fieldstone shed covered up for the winter otherwise i would post some pictures of it.
I started with digging a foundation 8x8 the foundation is 2' across and 3' deep, sloped to daylight on the one side, with the other sides sloping to that side. Then i put in drain pipe and 2b stone. packed it down as hard as i could. then put in tarpaper and rebar. I poured the cement in and built on that. Its called a rubble foundation frank l. wright used it in a lot of his big buildings.



The inside of the the foundation is still dirt, i will dig it out and put in a paverstone or brick surface. The walls are just fieldstone that i have cut and mortared in place. They are 12 inches thick. I am 4' up on the one side with a window in place and 2 1/2 feet up on the others. I figured while im cutting and using stone for this i might as well put some aside for the house.

What worries me is that i saw some articles on how people have messed up putting the cultured stone on their houses and caused more water problems. I was also thinking about the holes for the angle iron, but then i wondered about using stainless steel fastners, and stainless angle iron?

I watch rock solid all the time. Its a great diy show.

Your stone is not as thick as I imagined. Maybe you could do some research or ask at a local masonry supplier about what types of mortar might adhere best in your situation. Some of the exterior rated thinsets with lots of admix for stone/tile might be worth a look. I would be tempted to try it without foundation support. Maybe a good flashing and sealer coating would keep the moisture out of the block wall to rock bond.

I think the freeze-thaw of any moisture is what will cause trouble. Not so much the weight of the stone at 3/4" and under.

You are a hard worker! I would like to see the actual foundations below some of the older large stone buildings. I'll bet there is no concrete footer.
Dave.

 

[2manyrocks]

Taunton Press used to publish a collection of articles entitled Foundations and Masonary. I recall that there was an article on a fieldstone house, a cordwood house, and I don't remember the rest.

In concept, I would guess you'd have to do this like a brick veneer. You'd have a footer and then tie the courses of fieldstone to the existing structure with brick ties.

There were several fieldstone houses in the area where we used to live, and they were pretty homes.

 

[valley]

Greetings forgeblast, I've done a lot of this. I understood you to say you would like to lay stone against a precast concrete block wall. You have said there is no standing water, you have moved it away from the house. The way I was taught by an expert is: Starting on mineral earth from the wall to about 1 1/2' out put down 2' of small rock [pebble can be collected from area] mix your mud, mortar, fairly rich [pour 4'' pad. While still soft start setting your stone slaping mortar against the block.

I'll be back daughter's birthday got to watch a movie with the family.

 

[valley]

Got a couple minutes.
Now you're going to lay stone aginst the block the widest part will be at the bottom going into about 8" to 10" it will be like a fliying buttress leaning against the wall, it will not fall unless the wall falls away from it. The smallest stone you want is the size of a brick some much larger.[ if you use smaller stones it will be like tiling, we are not talking about that.] Throw the mud aginst the wall and the lower stones and set the next stones letting the mud ooze between the stones. [ you'll strike later] You can do a six foot row and take it up several stones then extend another 6'.

Got to go, be back!

 

[valley]

when laying the stones throw the mud against the wall where the last row of stones were laid so that the wall and the top of the stone have a nice thick mush of mud 1" or more thick so you can push the next stone in place. Leave the mortar in place, don't strike between the stones until the strike falls away in curmbles that won't stick well if you pinch it together with your fingers. You can stop work and come back to it the next day a cold joint is not a problem. When you stop work you can go over the stone with a brush and water, if you see it is too soon[ the strike is too soft, stop and come back to it in a while. when you stop work you will want no mud on top of the top stone, you'll throw it [ mud] when you come back to the job. If you can't finish the job stop working when you can stay long enough to strike when the mortar sets just right, if you strike too soon it will make a mess you can tell. It is popular some places not to strike at all.

 

[valley]

forgeblast, I just read you saying the stone is 1/4" to 3/4". I would just scrap it down with a hammer and scraper, get all the loose stuff off, hose it down, throw on some rich sticky mud and push the dampened pieces into the mud. Almost like tiling. It won't come off! Right at the bottom where it will be covered with dirt later you can throw a trowel full. For what you will be using you don't need a fondation. You will be working with about and 8" trowel. If you have never done this practice on a small area 6' wide and come up a couple feet. If the wall is solid with nothing flaky on it, what you put on will be part of the wall. If you get ready to do this I'll PM a mud recipe. Good luck with the job.

 

[forgeblast]

Valley:
THANK YOU!!!!!
That is the best info i have seen. Most of our stone here is flat (the thicker round stuff i use for filling walls and for the inside of the stack stone walls we have), so it will be more like putting tile down (ive done a lot of that).

I also use an old bristle brush that is wet to do my mortar joints. I find it packs them and makes them look so much more finished.

I was using a premix mortar that i would throw a shovel full of portland in to so that i would have more strenght for our winters/thaw cycle. But the new mortar that our local place carries is a type s super velvet and its so nice to work with. If i throw portland in it, i seem to come away with a much sticker and harder to use mortar.

I cant thank you enough for all that info it was such a great write up. I am already thinking this summer that i will be able to start putting the stone down. This winter i may start cutting pieces for the house.

How do you do corners, do you use a thicker stone and notch out an L shape so that it will wrap around the corner? also how do you finish off the top row, do you put a flashing or just bump up to the siding?

 

[valley]

forgeblast, Glad you plan to do the job it will be fun. Cornering with flat stone, there are a couple ways. The easest is to take one out to the edge, coming from the other side go right over it or lap it, the next stone up doing the lapping in reverse. sounds like you have a saw thats great for some places. I found that breaking pieces roughly then setting them together gives the look of precision.
Breakfast. Be back.
My stone saw [tile saw] just stopped working, must have blown a capacitor darn it.

 

[valley]

For the top I prefer to cope with mortar, pressing it in so it is shiny and waterproof. If you want to use flashing, the upper part of the flashing should be under the siding but I don't think it is needed.