Fence Posts

MikePA · Nov 22, 2004

Driving posts is a lot less work. I put in 187 4" x 4" x 8' PT posts and 40 T posts this summer with a post driver. Using the driver converts a 4 step process (drill, place post in hole, back fill, tamp) with a 1 step process (drive).

Driving posts is not a panacea. If a post hits a rock, it will either stop or, if the rock is smaller, veer off course. If the ground is dry, the post wont go in at all. Still, it beats, the alternative. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

dmccarty · Nov 23, 2004

Mike and Richard,

How easy is it to use the post driver? Do you set the post in the driver then get back in the tractor seat and set the post or can you do it off the tractor? I will be working by myself so I'm curious how much climbing on and off the tractor I'll have to do. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Course that is better than doing this by hand.

My dealer is getting me some prices on a Shaver post driver as we speak. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

What brand and model driver did you use? Where you posts round or square?

I was talkng to one of my neighbors the other day and he said he would be more than happy to send his teen age son to help us move in to the house. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif That got me to thinking about working out a deal with him on building fences if I really need two people to work efficiently. I'll help him build his fences if he helps build mine. Since I have the equipment and I just need the manual labor I was thinking of offering that for every 1 foot of fence we build for him he helps me build 2, 3 or 4 feet for me. Whatever seems fair.

Later,
Dan

LarryD · Nov 23, 2004

I set 175 RR ties for the horse paddocks by tamping the dirt back in the hole, most in about 36". I've used these same posts to snub up the mule for vaccinations and despite his best efforts, I have yet to see one give even slightly.

Be sure to add some water if the soil dry as this aids in the compaction effort and do it in a few lifts.

Soundguy · Nov 23, 2004

( post I ever put in concrete usually rotted off after 5 years or so )

/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I find myself again having to agree with cowboydoc and the others... I'd had bad luck with wood posts in concrete. Around my pastures I'm using 6-8x8 on the corners, and H braces, and have 3 board and 2x4 no climb wire. Fence has been up for over 4 years and looks like it was put up yesterday. All holes were augered and hand tamped. I recently put in a few hundred foot of barb wire using wood corners and braces, and metal t-posts. I had dud the brace and corner posts.. so far after over a month the wire has not loosened, and the posts havn't moved a 1/4".

Spend your money on good posts and wire.. and save it on the concrete..

Soundguy

MikePA · Nov 23, 2004

How easy is it to use the post driver? Do you set the post in the driver then get back in the tractor seat and set the post or can you do it off the tractor? I will be working by myself so I'm curious how much climbing on and off the tractor I'll have to do. Course that is better than doing this by hand. 
I don't know if it's the best way, but here's what I did...and I was working alone too.

1. Mark the location on the ground where every post should be set.
2. I got a FEL-full of 4" x 4" x 8' PT posts and laid one at each mark.
3. I postioned the driver over the mark on the ground.

To increase accuracy, I lowered the driver as close to the ground as possible. Depending upon what was around the fence line, I could just drive down the fence line but in some cases I had to back up to the mark on the ground. NOTE: This step takes practice and patience and it's the step that can require getting on and off the tractor. However, with an HST tractor, it is possible to 'fine tune' the position of the tractor by standing next to it and pressing down on the pedal. Do this at your own risk, your mileage may vary, etc. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I only did this with the tractor at idle.

Dismount tractor, if you are not already off.

4. Lower the driver almost to the ground.
5. Adjust the driver so it's plumb using the bubble level on the driver and the adjustment cranks.
6. Lower the driver all the way to the ground and double check plumb.
7. Increase throttle to max.
8. Bungee cord the rear remote lever into postion.
9. Raise the ram using the joy stick on the driver.
10. Position the post in the driver.
11. Drop the ram using the joy stick.
12. After the post goes in about 6", check the post for plumb. Adjust as neede.
13. Repeat.

It's easier to do than describe.

I can go into much more detail, just ask. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Also, the return line that dumps the fluid back into the sump on the Worksaver drivers is poorly designed. The instructions say to remove the fill plug and bungee cord the line in place. What a mess. A TBNer modifed my fill plug that allowed me to use quick connects. Male coming out of the fill plug, female on the end of the return line. Almost 0 lost hyd fluid. Much better solution.

If you'd like to talk, PM me with your number and I can call you.

dmccarty · Nov 23, 2004

Mike,

Thank you VERY much on the details. I checked the manufactuer's website for manuals but they did not have them. You info really gives me an idea on what has to happen. It seems simple enough. I had thought that I would mark the ground where I would put the posts. Its good to know I am going down the right path. I just got some pallet forks, have only used them for a couple of hours and don't know how I lived without them. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I figured I would carry the posts on the pallet forks.

Why did you use square posts instead of round ones? I built a gate out of 4x4's anx 6x6s's and getting them lined up was a pain. I think I ran a string to guide me but it still was not fun.

I also put the 6x6's in concrete. It will be interesting to see how long they last. They have been in the ground for 4 years. So far so good. It does what I need to do but for building a fence I don't want to repeat what I had to do for the gate.

Which model did you get?

Thanks for the offer on the help. If I need anymore I'll ask. I'll certainly check into the quick connects. They are the way to go.

Thanks,
Dan

MikePA · Nov 24, 2004

Dan,

Here's a link to the manual for the post driver I have.

I've also attached a picture of the end of the return line that doesn't work so well.

Why did I use 4" x 4"s? It's a long story. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I initially thought I was going to install a board fence and placed them in the corners using my post hole digger. In fact, I laid out the entire fence, 187 posts, and dug the holes. Before winter arrived last year, I only got 15 posts in. By spring, all the holes had filled in. Ah, experience, where would we be without it. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif We were approaching 3 years that this 3 acre pasture was not being used for pasture. The first year was understandable since we had to have it plowed, disced and planted. The second year was the post hole digger experiment. There had to be a better way. Enter the post driver. So, since I already had some 4" x 4"s in the ground, and had a small stockpile I finished the fence with them. If I was doing this all over, I'd use round.

rlee6 · Nov 24, 2004

How much does the post driver cost? Did you buy it because you could not rent one? I checked Hertz equipment rental but they don't seem to have a post driver.

dmccarty · Nov 24, 2004

Mike,

Thanks for the link and the picture. I see the bungies as well. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think my dealer sells Shaver Post Drivers. Maybe they won't have the return line issue. But I'll certainly watch out for that problem.

It sounds like your projects and my projects are related! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

There is a small family owened PT company nearby that I try to use as much as possible. Their product is better than big box stores and the price is about the same. I know they do 4x4's and such but I can't remember if they do round posts. Given that there is a fence company right next door I would think they would. I'm going to see what they have in round posts. We might put in 4x4's in some areas for a board fence but mainly round posts.

One lesson I did learn was to use nails and not screws to hold in fence boards. One side of my gate has posts near a ditch so one posts stays more wet than the others. In the winter the ground stays wetter as well and the posts start moving. My gate start dragging in the dirt a few weeks back since the posts have started to move. In the first few months after the gate was up I would find some of my fence boards with one end on the ground. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif This was right after I built it so there was plenty of mud/dirt near the fence. I though someone was kicking the boards down but there where no foot prints in the mud and the boards where clean and they had not been kicked or pulled. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I finally noticed that the screws had been pulled apart. What was happening was that the wood was moving with the wet conditions and then the sun would hit the posts such that some posts got more sun than others. The posts would warp and the screws would pull apart. Very wierd to see. Put in some nails and it has not been a problem since. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The posts are held in with concrete and its been a good 4 years. I'll have to go wack the 4x4 that is near the ditch and see how it is doing. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Later,
Dan

MikePA · Nov 24, 2004

I used McFeeley's Square Drive stainless steel screws for use in the ACQ PT posts. They were much easier to drive than philips head. While they are not perfect (I broke 2 bits), but that wasn't too bad for driving almost 1,200 screws. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif In any case, stainless steel is required, IMO, for ACQ PT lumber. I know some say that galv screws (triple dipped?) are OK, but I'd rather not replace the screws in a few years. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

To answer another question....drivers are not cheap, approximately $2,500 /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif, but with most things financial, you're trading money for time. (no place to rent one either) With good ground, i.e., no rocks, and some experience, you can drive a post in 10 minutes, by yourself. There was no way I could have finished the fence this summer using a post hole digger.

By way of reference, I spent...

- 74.4 tractor hours to dig 186 holes and set 29 posts.
- 39.2 tractor hours to drive 162 posts.