FEL performance - Blue vs. GreenOrange

rockyridgefarm · Oct 23, 2002

I have been shopping for a new machine for some time, and was about to go for one, this past summer. But decided to wait till the end or first of the year, so am now getting ready to get down to business.

I have a yanmar that I really like, but I need bigger, and FEL and maybe a backhoe. No offense to Yanmar fans, I am one/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif, but I don't want a tractor that is a likely target to be orphaned, with little or no support. To me that rules out some very excellant machines. But I will try to be open minded. I am not trying to make someone think THEY made a bad choice with one of those other rigs. And I know that Kioti is presantly outselling NH.

My best option, from a dealer standpoint is New Holland. My local dealer is fantastic. And a great customer of my employer, as well. I don't have a problem with the local Deere or Kubota guys; but have a great relationship with Blue.

But when I've talked to them, they want me to go to bigger than I want. I have a heavily wooded, hilly property. I think that if I go too big, I will have a terrible time getting around under all those trees and into places I will want to work. )I am not referring to turning radius, as I know that SS units make a dime look large... I mean frame size.) I simply refuse to go without 4WD. They want me in a TN65, but I think size and price are too much for me...

They feel that the Boomers won't hold up to my needs.

One other point is that my father in law was an Intenational/Kubota dealer forever. He thinks I need to stay with bluegreenorange. He has the best respect for the NH Dealer. He does have a hard time seeing anything green (what would you expect, selling against them all those years?)

And my wife grew up in tthe dealership. She will use the equipment more than I will. For that reason, I need a "deluxe" machine with hydrostatic, and easy impliment changes.

Here is what we do:

I will maintain gravel roads. Do dirtwork, trench some. Mow and bush hog. The kicker is that I need to be able to unload small round bales off the truck. and then transport them with a rear bale spike. I don't do this much. The bales are about 900lbs.

The JD 4410 looks like it would fit the bill. The loader is sized right. But will it?

The NH TC35D loader looks like it won't cut it. Am I right? I didn't want to go bigger, but it looks like the TC40D would do the job...

The Kub 3430 looks to be capable, too...

I am posting in the NH forum because I really want to work with the New Holland dealer. I want the blue guys to get their best shots in, Then I might re-post this in general (assuming I don't get good greenorange answers here...)

JATO_RaT · Oct 23, 2002

Mr RockyRidgeFarm, I spent awhile looking at tractors before I got what I got. It primarily came down to the loader. I wanted one that was durable for repetatively moving mountains of dirt. I wanted a 72" bucket to cover my tracks when back grading. The John Deeres while great tractors have a always unimpressed me with the relatively light weight loader. Don't get me wrong, its well made, but under continuous punishment I give them, it just looked to light. I was looking at the JD 4610 and 4710 at the time. The new models still use the same loader. The NH I had no clue about since its innovative design was hard to tell about durability. The long curve makes it look like its way out there, I have never tried one. The new Kubota 3430 has a loader that far surpasses the old 3410 in weight by a considerable amount. According to Tractorsmart, it comes with a 72" bucket as well. Its lift ability I believe surpasses both the JD and NH in the respective size. The loaders are built in the US, very well made and are a snap to remove yet feel firmly attached. That brings me to my last point. The tractor I chose was a Kubota L48, a loader that surpasses every loader in the compact class, but it won't come off without a lot of elbow grease. I thought that would not be a problem, well, it is. With about 1700 yards of dirt cut and moved, my new duties mostly involve mowing. I have 116 sprinkler heads, all above the ground. Raising and lowering the bucket is a pain. Because of the slopes I'm on, I need to keep the bucket down. Now I'm faced with selling the L48. With the new Kubotas, the 3830 or even the 3430 look very appealing, especially with the 72" bucket. Good Luck, remember, the Big three all make great tractors, I just happen to know more about the Kubotas and JD's then NH. Rat...

gmason · Oct 23, 2002

Hello RRfarm, I'm a tc35d, with the LA16, owner and hopefully can help you with some answers to the ability of this tractor. I've got a 5 ft finish mower and a 6ft bushhog that neither one even cause the tractor to bat an eye.

I've run a 5ft tiller on it too and I've never seen dirt fly like that before.

Loader... well, I love the H/L option in the Joystick. I've recently done a lot of dirt moving and made many trips from one pile to another with the bucket slam full and being able to shift from that high to low in the speed I range was awesome.
I'd fly up to the pile and just at the last moment while lowering the bucket into the pile I'd hit the button with my thumb and instantly get the lower range, more power, more torque. Get the bucket full and while raising the bucket shift back to high and be off to the dumping spot. All done with out ever letting go of the joystick. Very Nice...

900lbs wouldn't phase the 16LA loader, just be sure to have some counter weight in the rear. I don't have the SS, but turning is no problem. Even in tight places, with the power steering and the hydrostatic Trans it's very easy to do a multipoint turn in less than a dime.

I added a tooth bar to the bucket and this really added some capability.
As I have said before about the 16LA is that you should upgrade to the HD bucket and not get the STD.

I added extra lights to the ROPS and with NH's OM wiring appendix the connection was pretty easy.

My only problem has been the well documented No Joy Joystick. I've just replace the piece that has broken twice now. Takes on a few minutes, but NH ought to come up with a permanent fix.

Let me know if you have anything specific I/we can help you with about the Boomers.

gary

Hoeman00 · Oct 23, 2002

The 35D and 40D are same basic tractor and loader.
W/ the quick-tach forks and front buckets,I would get a SSL bucket
for the tractor lots more sizes and capacities.
The near 2000# cap on the front loaders won't have any trouble w/
hay bales.

rockyridgefarm · Oct 23, 2002

Oops! I was referring to the TC33D, whixh has the lighter duty FEL. Basically I was trying to stay in the mid frame size. But I should be able to get a chance to try a 35D at my place to see how it handles 0 maybe its not too big...

rockyridgefarm · Oct 23, 2002

Is there an upgrade FEL (14LA?) for the TC33D in the pipe?

rockyridgefarm · Oct 23, 2002

One other issue comes to mind. The FEL may have a rated capacity that exceeds the tractors safe handling capacity. I was told that a bale out on forks will put far more stress than the same load in a bucket.

I understand that everything has to have proper ballast But I am concerned about safe handling as well as stress on the fron axle.

grainger12002 · Oct 23, 2002

the New Holland 16LA loader is one of the best, it is very well built and re-inforced in many areas. It also handles more weight than any of the others,compare the New Holland-side by side and you will see the difference,the HD bucket is nice with the curled steel and re-inforced sides. best wishes with whatever you decide. Lloyd from CT.

BigDave · Oct 23, 2002

Yes, there will be a 14LA, but I was told by my dealer that it wouldn't be until spring before we saw them. His opinion only, I believe. Anyway, I couldn't wait that long. I'm happy with my 7308 FEL, but I wouldn't pick up a 900lb hay bale with it. What green & orange models are you considering? I might have some insight as to how they would stack up. I also live on a wooded hill, weaving through tight spots isn't too hard without the FEL. Add the FEL, and those turns get much tighter.

JATO_RaT · Oct 24, 2002

Actually Lloyd I did check the 16 LA to both the JD 460 and then the Kubota 853 & 852. It was slightly lower in most categories. Overall lift, height to dump, bucket rollback to mention a few. Now it wasn't much, and probably not important for most with the possible exception of loader lift height. I have always wanted to try it particularly the way I use loaders to see its "toughness", I suspect it would hold up well. I use a NH 2120 routinely with I believe a 7809 loader. It works quite well. Rat

Hoeman00 · Oct 24, 2002

W/ the quick-tach the forks replace the bucket so 1 ton in bucket (2' long) is
still heavier than 900# bale on forks (4' long).
If u had bucket forks then that would lower lift cap.
My SSL is only rated at 1750 (1850 w/ counter wt.) which is less than the 35D
lift and I have no problems.
BTW the 6' JD manure/slurry bucket holds 1 ton of gravel or limestone and
most are drilled for cutting edge and toothbar.
If I had my choice get NH loader and 72" or 76" SSL buckets to use.

rockyridgefarm · Oct 24, 2002

In My original comparisons I was looking at mid size frames. So I was comparing the TC33 7308 to the Deere 4410 430 and the Kubota 3410 loader (whatever the number... )

The Deere and Kubotas are rated high enough, but the NH is too low. I can see that if I move up a frame size I will be better off for the bales. But I will unload bales once or twice a year, the rest of the time I have to get around with this machine. But then I don't want to be overstressing a machine, and like I posted earlier, the lighter loaders might meet my specs foor the bales, but the tractor beneath won't hold up...

I can't overlook that my wife, who is 5'3", will be using this quite a bit, and she needs to be able to work it comfortably.

hazmat · Oct 24, 2002

can see that if I move up a frame size I will be better off for the bales. But I will unload bales once or twice a year, the rest of the time I have to get around with this machine

Whatever brand you get, I'd go with the larger frame size. It only takes one rollover to ruin your day. A quick attach bucket and fork is the way to go (vs. the clamp on fork).

Regarding your wife, the sloped hood of the New Holland allows for good visablilty. Get her out to the dealers to try them out. She'll know what fits and doesn't. Some kind of quick hitch for the three point may be in order as well.

I picked New Holland based on the dealer. My first choice was Deere, but I wanted local support & was not happy w/ the local dealer. With 80 acres, your dealer's suggestion for a TN65 is reasonable. If he's as good as you say he is, he'll let you demo both the TN and a TC on your property.

Thinking outside the box a bit. How about keeping the yanmar for the small areas & buying a used utility tractor for the bale work?

rockyridgefarm · Oct 24, 2002

All the suggestions are really great,

Thinking outside the box a bit. How about keeping the yanmar for the small areas & buying a used utility tractor for the bale work? 

Who said I'd EVER let go of the Yanny? I am adding another tractor because I need to be able to do dirt work, and more efficient mowing. I also need a tractor that I can work with, not on.

I will keep the Yanmar because we love it annnd it is great for my up and coming field hands to get up to speed on before using a bigger unit.

I agree with all the points about ergonomics on the Boomers, I think they would really help both of us...

hazmat · Oct 24, 2002

Who said I'd EVER let go of the Yanny? I am adding another tractor because I need to be able to do dirt work, and more efficient mowing. I also need a tractor that I can work with, not on. 

Ahhh the TBN dream, a house in the country and two tractors in the barn.

AndyMA · Oct 24, 2002

Having been on tractors most of my life, I don't worry too much about getting around things. I presently have a Ford 2120 and NH TN75D. I had a TN75S but returned it. the Super Steer made the tractor unstable with heavy FEL loads if you were on uneven ground or tried to turn. I tried clamp on front forks and found that they kept relocating themselves, usually at a bad time with a load in the air. I now use Woods Quick Attach forks and have had no problems. I have had my 2120 since 1987 and put it through some pretty rough work on a hilly rocky new england farm. The 2120 is still available and has a a heavier frame than the Boomers (and you will definately notice it). The TN has the NH Quick attach FEL and the 2120 has the ATI Quick Attach Adapter so that they can share various implements. It works out well. I had a 758 backhoe on the 2120 and it was good up to it's rated capacity. I traded it for a Woods 1050 for the TN. They are a world apart. The Woods 1050 is a HD backhoe can actually dig out an oak stump without spending the entire day.As far as lifting round bales. The 2120 or TN could do it. If the ground wasn't flat or firm I'd definately prefer the TN. I'm not so sure that I would want to do much of it with a 33 class tractor. I've tipped three machines in my life and they go over quick.If you have any other questions, I'll try to answer.BTW- My dealer who my family has done business with for over 40 years sells both Blue and Orange. I've tried Orange but I stick with Blue.Andy

rockyridgefarm · Oct 24, 2002

Your property description sounds just like mine. Is your TN 4wd? I just can't imagine being without it...

I think I am pretty solidly out of the mid frame compact, just not sure that I can go to the utility. I am not farming, so speed isn't EVERYTHING, but then, I may be doing more down the road...

Phred · Oct 25, 2002

Hi Mike,

If you are in eastern Ok then you have a very similar case as me.

I have 90 acres in NW AR. Very steep in places. Significant amounts of woods as well as open pasture.

What I did was rent a bunch of machines and try them out with a bushhog I owned. In this way I was able to try them on for size.

I found that with the kind of areas you are talking about (80 acers from your bio) i needed a significant tractor. IMHO the TN series is the right ticket. I have a TN70D that is a 4x4 with the 16x16 trany and 32LA quick attach.
This machine is oustanding and a pleasure to use. The loader is very powerfull. One day I used it to move a ~2800 lb sissor lift, on my fork attachment. The quick attach is worth every penny since it is identical to bobcat quick attach. This means you can go down to any rental yard and rent any of the 20+ bobcat attachments for a weekend and use them with your tractor. Also the buckets and fork attachments for the bobcat are much cheaper than for many tractors, such as the green ones.

Also I find I can get it in and out of just about any space I need to.
The 16x16 trany is nice since you have a very wide range of gear options for a given task.

Fred

Kodiak · Oct 25, 2002

Ok I constantly do the same work that you mentioned, with the exception of moving the 900lb round bales. However I do unload pallets of construction materials, including occasional pallets that weigh @ around 1000lbs.

And do to my need for tight maneauverability in and around residential construction and landscaping. My tractor of choice Was the TC29. Yes thats the midsize Class II Boomer. First off let me say that I went with the 29 for my preference to a gear tranny with a live PTO. Since you want/need a hydrostatic tranny, and the deluxe extendable 3pt arms I would suggest the TC33D. To acheive that extra FEL lift that you and I require I equipped mine with a Woods 1012 loader that is rated at @1200lbs, and I beleive that is a conservative rating this loader euipped with the 66" HD bucket and recently aquired Woods Quick attach and pallet forks greatly compliments the Class II Boomers. And besides it can be ordered from Woods in the stock New Holland blue paint. I would suggest getting the rear tires loaded for added weight.

And to make a complete package out of it I also equippeds the 29 with a Woods 7500 backhoe with both a 12" trenching bucket and an a 16" bucket. Oh yes the woods 7500 BH can also be ordered in the stock New Holland blue paint

I considered the Supersteer option, but then discounted it as the Class II Boomers already have a nice tight turning radius.

And the $1000 savings by not getting the SS option allowed me to purchase a new 6' First Choice RD finish mower. In addition I run an older 5' Woods brush hog with no problems.

In 240 hours since April I am quite pleased with this tractor pkg. And am currently considering picking up a second one next spring that will be dedicated to mowing and other 3pt usage.

victor · Oct 26, 2002

Currently have my TC25D at the dealer's getting a new 7308 FEL installed. He never mentioned the forthcoming 14LA. Does anyone know the specs and cost of the new loader? I'm wondering if I should have waited until the spring for this purchase.