Feguson TO30

bford · Apr 12, 2011

Followup.................after some preventive maintenance and parts, the tractor is humming........still no luck with the hydraulics.

I did a visual inspection with the side plate removed and the engine running and there were no visible leaks.

I shut the engine off, stuck the hand in the oil and it was painfully apparent that the control fork was not attached to the control valve..........or is it supposed to be attached?? Would this cause the lift not to work?? I found what looked like a shear key of some sort in the bottom of the compartment real close to the bottom of the control fork. Is this the missing 'link'? Thanks all!

Jerry/MT · Apr 13, 2011

bford said:
Followup.................after some preventive maintenance and parts, the tractor is humming........still no luck with the hydraulics.

I did a visual inspection with the side plate removed and the engine running and there were no visible leaks.

I shut the engine off, stuck the hand in the oil and it was painfully apparent that the control fork was not attached to the control valve..........or is it supposed to be attached?? Would this cause the lift not to work?? I found what looked like a shear key of some sort in the bottom of the compartment real close to the bottom of the control fork. Is this the missing 'link'? Thanks all!

There is no "shear key" that I am aware of. The pump is driven by six splines on the pto shaft and its' power comes thru a coupling and thence from the transmission.
The control valve has a "T" shaped stem that fits between the arms so on the control fork. The ends of the "T" fit in the sockets of the control fork. Can you find the contol valve stem? Pulling it back lowers the hitch and pushing it forward raises the lift. This is why your lift is not working. If the "T" shaped handles is still attched to the control valve you need to slip it back in the sockets for the lift to work. Before you do that, pull and push on the on the "T" and see if the valve moves back and forth. It only moves a little ways maybe an inch. If it moves freely it's not stuck.

bford · Apr 13, 2011

From what I can tell by just feeling around, the 'T'shaped handle is still attached to the control fork and not the valve. The valve moves freely and again, judging by feel, there appears to be a spring on the end of the valve.

bford · Apr 13, 2011

Shear key was the incorrect term...............looks more like a cotter pin that holds the valve to the 'T' handle............

Jerry/MT · Apr 13, 2011

bford said:
Shear key was the incorrect term...............looks more like a cotter pin that holds the valve to the 'T' handle............

What you found on the bottom is probably the clip the holds the crossbar of the "T" to the valve stem. You'll need to get the cross bar attached to the valve stem and get the clip back on. You are correct about the spring.It goes over the stem an fits between the valve body and the "T" cross bar.

bford · Apr 13, 2011

See the image that I have attached.........it appears that I could access the control valve from the bottom drain. What do you think?

Soundguy · Apr 13, 2011

i think i'd drain the oil, snatch the pto shaft out, buy the 2 new gaskets I needed and make sure it was put together right.. probably take 5 minutes to drain, and 15 minutes to snatch t he shaft and drop the pump on a floor jack.. 10 minutes to reattach t piece, and clean old gasket off, 5 minutes to put pump back up with new gasket, bolt in, 1 minute to slip pto back in with new gasket, then 1 minute to re-attach fork to T.

or you can drain and work thru the drain port and a side cover and try it.. might work.. if you can see it and actually manupulate your tool in that space.

soundguy

bford · Apr 13, 2011

Okay.......bordering on going crazy. Got the control valve issue squared away, filled with fluids, and still having the same issue. There are NO visible leaks when the tractor is running and PTO engaged.

I did notice though that there is not a whole lot of movement on the control valve when the lift lever is moved. Is there an adjustment that I should check?? I think that I am getting close!

bford · Apr 14, 2011

One other thought..........does the draft control spring have anything to do with the arms rising by themselves with no load? After I finished re-attaching the control valve to the control fork last night, I hooked the tractor up to my box blade, moved the lever to the up position and nothing. I had the right panel removed to see if I could see any leaks. Nothing. In an earlier post, I mentioned that the control valve does not seem to be moving a whole lot. Can this be adjusted?

Soundguy · Apr 14, 2011

it won't move alot.. but some.. maybee 1/2" total.

how much trvel are you seeing.

did you manualy help it a bit to see if it moved smoothly?

soundguy

bford · Apr 14, 2011

It did move smoothly..............maybe 1/2" worth of travel at best. I have read some other posts on other sites and others keep talking about the draft spring possibly needing adjustment. There is some play in the spring with nothing attached. It is my understanding that some play is normal if there is weight attached to the tractor. Could this be affecting anything???

The thing that puzzles me is that when the PTO is engaged, the arms will come up all by themselves (original issue

). When I hook up an implement and try and lift something substantial, visually looking inside the compartment, I see NO leaks. Not sure where to look next..............There is some swirling towards the rear of the compartment but I am assuming that is the PTO spinning.

I did purchase the IT manual for reference and short of replacing seals in EVERYTHING I am not sure what to do. The tractor is too nice to be sitting in my garage and not mowing!!

Soundguy · Apr 14, 2011

pto MUST be engaged for pump to work.

draft spring adjustments does make a difference.. but if you are manually manipulating the control fork.. that will overide the draft spring.

slip a piece of clear tubing ove rthe relief when pto is off, then aim it over into the sump and start up pto and lift a heavy implement.. see if it is passing oil out the relief.

soundguy

bford · Apr 14, 2011

Just for my info, the relief valve is located just above the control valve correct? And which direction should I aim the tubing? If there is oil coming out of the relief, time for a new one?? Thanks!!

bford · Apr 14, 2011

Sorry for the many questions.............will a bad relief valve cause the lift to do what I described?

Soundguy · Apr 14, 2011

if oil reliefs freely.. cyl won't really lift under load.

aim the oil into the sump

bford · Apr 14, 2011

last question and i got some work to do...............is it possible to remove the relief valve without dropping the pump? Can the relief valve be cleaned in any form or fashion? When I had the pump out last night, everything looked like it was in great shape. The previous owner must have done some work on it in the past....................

Soundguy · Apr 14, 2011

you CAN usually remove the relief valve with the pump in.. easiest way is to slid ethe pto shaft out.. harder way is to torch a wrench into a curve to get around the shaft

relief looks like a spark plug kinda.. it's cap is soldered on.. though may have blown off if the relief failed. relief is no more than a fitting with a ball and spring.. spring holds the ball against a sealing suface in the valve and when hyd pressure overcomes the spring, it lifts.. sometime the spring breaks or debri holds the relief open. not a real easy to service part... luckilly it's a cheap aprt too.. 16-30$..

soundguy

Jerry/MT · Apr 14, 2011

bford said:
It did move smoothly..............maybe 1/2" worth of travel at best. I have read some other posts on other sites and others keep talking about the draft spring possibly needing adjustment. There is some play in the spring with nothing attached. It is my understanding that some play is normal if there is weight attached to the tractor. Could this be affecting anything???

The thing that puzzles me is that when the PTO is engaged, the arms will come up all by themselves (original issue ). When I hook up an implement and try and lift something substantial, visually looking inside the compartment, I see NO leaks. Not sure where to look next..............There is some swirling towards the rear of the compartment but I am assuming that is the PTO spinning.

I did purchase the IT manual for reference and short of replacing seals in EVERYTHING I am not sure what to do. The tractor is too nice to be sitting in my garage and not mowing!!

Get a Ferguson Shop Manual for the TO-20 TE-20, TO-30. They are about $20 + shpg on ebay and elsewhere. they are hundred time better then the IT manual for guys like you and I. The IT manuals are meant for repair shops.

I assume you are looking up at the lift cylinder for leaks and see none. Start the engine.(DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES , STICK YOUR HANDS IN THE HYDRAULIC COMPARTMENT WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING!) With the control valve full forwardThe next place to look is the vertical pipe that feeds the lift cylinder in the right front corner of the hydraulic compartment. You may have to use a mirror to see it. The next place to look for a leak is on the side plates of the pump. The gaskets there often blow. If the relief is blowing you should see a bunch of turbulence above the control valve and it will be noisy.

There should be no play in the draft spring unless you have a heavy load on it. It is attached to the control fork or it at least should be. make sure that it's attached there

If there are no leaks, Shut the enine off and if the lift arm was full up, pull the control valve back and the lift should drop. Attach an implement, push the control valve forward and start the tractor up. Does the lift raise? If the lift raises, you know the pump is good and the control valve is working. (Check again for leaks if the load raises.)The problem is in the control fork/ linkage not moving the control valve. Make sure the linkage is adjusted correctly. The Ferguson Manual gives the procedure.

If it doesn't lift. I'd suspect the pump is damaged and leaking internally since to get this far you found no other obvious leaks.

Do these checks systematically and you find the problem. Don't take the pump out until you have isolated the problem to the pump. You can't test the pump outside of the tractor.

Soundguy · Apr 14, 2011

another thought is if it won't drop with the control valve is it is a plugged exhaust valve.

but then.. it should still lift with the 3pt control if he manually moves the valve..e tc..

soundguy

Jerry/MT · Apr 14, 2011

Soundguy said:
another thought is if it won't drop with the control valve is it is a plugged exhaust valve.

but then.. it should still lift with the 3pt control if he manually moves the valve..e tc..

soundguy

It will lift without a load and that makes me think it's a linkage problem. The control valve is not being moved fully forward by the linkage but it's moving far ebough to get some flow to the cylinder. It's also not being moved backward by the linkage so it won't come down. If he manually can get it to work up and down under load then it's not the pump or the control valve. Its gotta' be the linkage. Anyway, that's my rationale.
You could be right about the exhaust side. One can never say never on these old machines. The failure modes possible on a 60 year old tractor with worn parts are a lot greater than the guys who designed them ever thought of!