FE Loader Behavior???

[Coyote_CS2220]

I have a CS2220 with FEL, purchased new this year, which is exhibiting odd FEL hydraulic behavior.

When I raise the loader (even without a load) it will slowly succumb to gravity - both bucket tilt and main arm - with the bucket tilt dropping faster than the main arm. There are no hydraulic leaks and it will noticeably drop within 15 minutes at 1600rpm or 2200rpm.

I am guessing there is a slow internal valve leak - maybe at the joy stick?? - anyone else had this issue and what was the solution?

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

Two possibles: leak at the piston in the cylinders, or leak at the FEL valve. check the adjustment on the valves to be sure they are actually centered when the joystick is, and that there isn’t just enough resistance in the controls to keep the valve from closing all the way. Much easier than screwing around in the valve…

 

[jimglassford]

You have to think about the volume of the hydraulic cylinder. Extending a hydraulic cylinder requires more hydraulic fluid than retracting. So if a hydraulic cylinder slowly retracts, the primary cause can't be a leak in the packing. The hydraulic fluid is leaving the circuit. The likely culprit is in the valve. I have been told that the spools can't leak so that leaves the pressure relief valve leaking.

 

[repete]

Both the bucket roll and the loader arms fall. If you have a friend with a tractor you could rule out the cylinders leaking by the packing by raising the loader and with it supported by tractor #2, remove the hydraulic line to the non cylinder rod side and plug it.

Let tractor #2 release the lift and if #1 tractor holds without falling or leaking, it rules out the cylinders leaking by. If it falls, the fluid can only be going from the pressure side of the cylinder piston to the non pressure side of the piston.

Try the same test with the bucket roll.

That should give you a better idea of where to look.

 

[oldnslo]

You have to think about the volume of the hydraulic cylinder. Extending a hydraulic cylinder requires more hydraulic fluid than retracting. So if a hydraulic cylinder slowly retracts, the primary cause can't be a leak in the packing. The hydraulic fluid is leaving the circuit.

Jim
This is correct on cylinder not retracting without oil leaving the circuit.

The likely culprit is in the valve. I have been told that the spools can't leak so that leaves the pressure relief valve leaking.

Yes the culprit is the valve and spools do leak. What can happen is that if the seals on the lift cylinders leak it potentially doubles leakage rate through the valve since now both ends of lift cylinders see load induced pressure.

Unless valve has work port relief valves there would be no relief in the cylinder circuit.

 

[tacticalturnip]

Your tractor is brand new, it's under warranty, let them mess with it.

 

[rScotty]

For all the reasons mentioned, the leakage is probably in the valve.
What I've seen is that most loaders, hoes, and 3pt hitches leak down. They may do it more slowly when new, but my experience is that most will leak down as they age.

So much so, that for the part of the tractor hydraulics that the tractor manufacturer has control over - i.e just the 3pt lift - most tractor manufacturers publish an acceptable rate of drop in their shop manuals. That way they can say for sure if their 3pt is performing properly. The mfg limit may surprise you, often being in the range of several inches in 5 or 10 minutes. That's a rate that I would find unacceptable in a 3pt., but at least it's a measurement. Luckily most 3pts are far better at holding. Our old JD doesn't drop noticbly over several hours.

For loaders and hoes - most of which come from accessory manufacturers - I haven't looked to see if they have similar leak down specs. They probably do at their factory, but may not publish them... Anyone know?

What I'm saying is that some leak down is expected. For any warranty my bet is it will come down to deciding if your leak down rate is more than acceptable - and that rate is probably listed somewhere as a specification.
rScotty

 

[kevin37b]

Warranty ?

 

[Coyote_CS2220]

Thanks for all the thoughts and ideas.

Yes, it is still under warranty and I have been in to talked to the dealer.............as expected I got a bunch of mumbo jumbo about leakage tolerances, but they don't know what they are, but will certainly have a look if I bring it in and let me know if it meets the unknown leakage tolerances....yada, yada, yada.

I decide to take the plastic cover off the joystick console and clean and lube the piston controls. Yup that made a difference - much smoother lift and dump with freshly lubed controls. Check the bolts for tightness and all is good. No more jerking with freshly lubed controls.

After I put things back together, I raise the FEL with pallet forks on the front and a load of firewood on a pallet. Raised and leveled at 4.5ft over a 15 minute period of time @ 1800rpm the hydraulic cylinders dropped about 1/8 of an inch on the cylinder arm.

I can live with this. I only have 90hrs on the clock, but what a difference a clean and lube job makes on the joystick control operation.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

Thanks for all the thoughts and ideas.

Yes, it is still under warranty and I have been in to talked to the dealer.............as expected I got a bunch of mumbo jumbo about leakage tolerances, but they don't know what they are, but will certainly have a look if I bring it in and let me know if it meets the unknown leakage tolerances....yada, yada, yada.

I decide to take the plastic cover off the joystick console and clean and lube the piston controls. Yup that made a difference - much smoother lift and dump with freshly lubed controls. Check the bolts for tightness and all is good. No more jerking with freshly lubed controls.

After I put things back together, I raise the FEL with pallet forks on the front and a load of firewood on a pallet. Raised and leveled at 4.5ft over a 15 minute period of time @ 1800rpm the hydraulic cylinders dropped about 1/8 of an inch on the cylinder arm.

I can live with this. I only have 90hrs on the clock, but what a difference a clean and lube job makes on the joystick control operation.

The loader may have sat for a couple of years, and gotten dust, etc. in the grease. I tend to. Blow such surfaces off with brake cleaner, and then lube them with chain lube, which doesn’t attract and hold dust and debris.