FarmTrac Troubles

[blueliner]

Lgim and EasyEd,

Thanks for joining and participating at the "Farmtrac Troubles" thread. You're one segment of the demographic the core bloggers have aimed for. It appears you've already received some heat from recent postings. Welcome to the Jungle.

In all fairness, just you've made some valid points, your lack of familiarity with the details of this case reveals itself. Segments one, two and three of a local N.C. paper series may be the primer to help get you up to speed. Hope those help.

For the common citizenry (or those ones devoid of kickbacks from the ABL/floorplanner), Farmtrac retailer's string of events -- and their scope -- may be a bit to get your arms around. This writer has followed it since a rainy January day in Tarboro last year and it *still* can be overwhelming at times.

You're welcome to post or PM with any additional questions. After all, we know it takes more than one Orr to row a boat.

--b

 

[redneckford]

Lgim and EasyEd,

Thanks for joining and participating at the "Farmtrac Troubles" thread. You're one segment of the demographic the core bloggers have aimed for. It appears you've already received some heat from recent postings. Welcome to the Jungle.

In all fairness, just you've made some valid points, your lack of familiarity with the details of this case reveals itself. Segments one, two and three of a local N.C. paper series may be the primer to help get you up to speed. Hope those help.

For the common citizenry (or those ones devoid of kickbacks from the ABL/floorplanner), Farmtrac retailer's string of events -- and their scope -- may be a bit to get your arms around. This writer has followed it since a rainy January day in Tarboro last year and it *still* can be overwhelming at times.

You're welcome to post or PM with any additional questions. After all, we know it takes more than one Orr to row a boat.

--b

I know life ain't fair but to give John Deere $2 billion dollars of bail out funds and leave these Farmtrac dealers in the lurch is just "plane" darn WRONG!!!!
WONDER if it is because John Deere is too BIG to fell or that they are just greedy wanting some free money!!!! My bucket must have a hole in it----it ain't filling up????? Who is really broke and do not know it yet----just ask a Farmtrac dealer how it feels----to have a John Deere Dealer find out that your company has closed down before you know a thing---Thanks Gambler---but what is really happening out there---is it worst than WE KNOW!!!!!

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Hey All,
How do we as consumers protect ourselves?

Don't buy a tractor from the 3rd Tier brands. The commitment these companies make to their customers and dealers is shallow. Spend 20 minutes on Google and you can find an easy dozen stories of companies who imported machines and went belly up. I don't know what people expect... you buy a Tool at Harbor Freight and expect junk, but you buy knockoff tractors and expect what?! Just because its a more expensive purchase does not imply stability, support, good engineering, etc that has been proven by the major venders.

 

[case1570]

Don't buy a tractor from the 3rd Tier brands.

Was IH a 3rd tier brand, how about white. Your lines are not protected from what happened either. I think your statement just promotes your lines right now.
Case
PS When did Kubota not become a 3rd tier line????????

 

[Tim C.]

MessickFarmEqu, you never cease to amaze me.

Hey Bird, what do you think of this one? He just slapped all but three of your advertisers at one time.

Tim

 

[redneckford]

Don't buy a tractor from the 3rd Tier brands. The commitment these companies make to their customers and dealers is shallow. Spend 20 minutes on Google and you can find an easy dozen stories of companies who imported machines and went belly up. I don't know what people expect... you buy a Tool at Harbor Freight and expect junk, but you buy knockoff tractors and expect what?! Just because its a more expensive purchase does not imply stability, support, good engineering, etc that has been proven by the major venders.

yeah!! they are not big enough to qualify for government bail out(JD gets $2 Billion)---wonder if Fiat is buying part of Chrysler so that they can qualify--oh wait they are already the parent company of CIH and New Holland---who has the money invested --the dealer? ---the company? ---or stock holders? How big and safe was IH when they run out of cash????? Messick that line does not play in today's world ---to many companies lie about their profits and losses----it is all about today's stock price not long term profit!!! COMMITMENT!!! do the companies of today know what that word even means---You know well that you can work day and night but if they back order a part all you can do is wait!!! Global economy-----world excuse!!!!

 

[SESS]

Don't buy a tractor from the 3rd Tier brands. The commitment these companies make to their customers and dealers is shallow. Spend 20 minutes on Google and you can find an easy dozen stories of companies who imported machines and went belly up. I don't know what people expect... you buy a Tool at Harbor Freight and expect junk, but you buy knockoff tractors and expect what?! Just because its a more expensive purchase does not imply stability, support, good engineering, etc that has been proven by the major venders.

Isn't John Deere part of the "big guys" and they still had to get a $2 billion loan from the Feds. I don't think ANYONE is exempt from financial problems.

Your comments sometimes just make me shake my head because I don't know if you pull them from thin air or someplace lower on your body.

 

[SESS]

After reading this article about the big "T", just goes to show that dishonest people will never win no matter how big and bad they think they are. Truth and honesty will prevail.

Norway's oil fund drops Textron, Barrick stock: Associated Press Business News: TXT - MSN Money

 

[longtrman]

Montana tractors had taken off well and they have had success with LS tractors.LS tractors coming directly leaves them with difficult choices which means difficult times for dealers dealing with Montana.The good news is that if LS wants to be a success it will have to take care of both Montana amd Farmtrac tractors manufatured by them.Maybe they work out a deal with Montana.who knows??
The dealers dealing in LS tractors have to weigh their options of which way to go.

I received a call from the Montana block man a week or two back. During our discussion (his sales pitch) he mentioned that Montana had lost over one hundred dealers last year. He said they were mostly small dealers that needed to go. In talking to another dealer who has kept abreast of the Montana situation the dealer stated that the number is likely closer to 200 dealers lost. Is it any wonder why LS would want to come to the USA directly if they have an honorable concern for the consumers who have purchased Montana/Lg/LS and Farmtrac/LG/LS and McCormick/LG/LS tractors?

 

[redneckford]

I received a call from the Montana block man a week or two back. During our discussion (his sales pitch) he mentioned that Montana had lost over one hundred dealers last year. He said they were mostly small dealers that needed to go. In talking to another dealer who has kept abreast of the Montana situation the dealer stated that the number is likely closer to 200 dealers lost. Is it any wonder why LS would want to come to the USA directly if they have an honorable concern for the consumers who have purchased Montana/Lg/LS and Farmtrac/LG/LS and McCormick/LG/LS tractors?

what did Rodney know???? and when did he know it???? he seems to be able to read between the lines sooner than most------he is going to do great things for his current employer---that builds much of their own equipment----what does TATA build????nothing???? ----can they export-import--oh yeah!!
Does he know Ron????

 

[longtrman]

If you own a Farmtrac tractor I suspect your dealer is going to have to find a new supplier or you will have to find a different dealer to deal with. If you are a ex Farmtrac dealer I think you got screwed, but life goes on, if you want to continue being a tractor dealer find a new supplier that you are comfortable dealing with big company that manufactures and has an exec somewhere, or a smaller company that distributes with people you know. Your choice. Excerpted from Gary

Gary it's not that easy. The big companies are trying to reduce the number of dealerships. I don't know why. They say it costs to much. But remember this when you go into a dealership the dealer paid for the real estate and the utilities and all the tools and parts that and all the other expenses. I suspect and I have heard said that if you want a JD dealership now they ask you how many stores you will have. If the answer is 1, 2 or 3 they will not discuss your having a dealership. Years back (maybe 20-25) I considered having a Ford dealership. Ford said I had to have 1.8 million dollars unencumbered capital to be considered for a dealership. I thought if I had that kind of money the last thing I would buy with it would be a job. So you see one reason the Farmtrac dealers are trying so hard to hang on to their lively hood. They are small and don't have the possibility of a big name franchise. Another problem is until the existing inventory on the ex-Farmtrac dealers lots is gone the ex-Farmtrac dealer is considered a bad credit risk. Textron's account is hanging over their heads like the "Sword of Damacles". Always waiting to drop. these people have lived under the stress of these conditions for over a year now. Nothing they can do about it. Why not sell the tractors and be done with it? Tractors in the smaller sizes aren't selling well now. One attorney who has looked at the Textron dealer agreement says if you sell the tractor for less than the invoice cost you are breaking the Textron agreement. Some of us who had money in the bank went ahead and sold (you have to have money to pay the difference between what Textron wants and the invoice amount). So nothing is easy enough that someone who hasn't lived it will suddenly come up with an answer.

 

[longtrman]

Don't buy a tractor from the 3rd Tier brands. The commitment these companies make to their customers and dealers is shallow. Spend 20 minutes on Google and you can find an easy dozen stories of companies who imported machines and went belly up. I don't know what people expect... you buy a Tool at Harbor Freight and expect junk, but you buy knockoff tractors and expect what?! Just because its a more expensive purchase does not imply stability, support, good engineering, etc that has been proven by the major venders.

Those tractors in the photo look like Kubotas. When I was a young dealer we turned down Kubota because they looked like a third or less tier tractor. We already had the Long which would sell then whereas the dealers who had Kubota were having trouble getting rid of them. Times change.

 

[redneckford]

Those tractors in the photo look like Kubotas. When I was a young dealer we turned down Kubota because they looked like a third or less tier tractor. We already had the Long which would sell then whereas the dealers who had Kubota were having trouble getting rid of them. Times change.

Are GM,Ford, and Chrysler 3rd tier companies are they just lying and wanting some money for nothing????----PLANE RIDE???!!!----you get what you pay for----i want my money back!!!!!!!!!

 

[longtrman]

Hey All,

4) How do we as consumers protect ourselves? How? If warranties are meaningless and parts can disappear - what are we to do? Well one possibility I suggested in another thread (which nobody has responded to) is having access to the data that actually shows who uses what parts in building tractors so that we can get parts from another tractor brand by knowing this info. Who has and updates that data - consumers need it for self protection. If it's unavailable - bout time for a law!


-Ed-

Above is a partial quote.
Ed there is an article on Wikipedia that gives just what you are looking for. I don't just now remember the name of the article. But i'm sure if you search wikipedia for tractor it will come up.

 

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Blue... - those articles on FarmTrac were very interesting. They lead one to wonder

Just who did Textron have a financing deal with. Dealers individually? Escorts? Escorts on behalf of dealers? Who? What does the fine print say? Apparently not Dealers as credit limits were ignored and tractors delivered. Apparently not just Escorts as dealers are liable financially. If it was with Escorts on behalf of dealers then doesn't that leave dealers holding the financial bag if they have no control over their inventory levels and credit limits are ignored? Then either Textron is "taking advantage" of a situation to force financial liability onto dealers or they maybe believed Escorts propaganda about tractor sales, ability to pay, etc and were also hoodwinked. The question is simply - did they know? Escorts apparently simply raided the company - virtually no doubt in my mind. How much of what they did is actually illegal I've no idea but they certainly did not embrace the idea of being in the tractor business long term.

My belief is that corporations have too much power in this world just like they did before Teddy Rooseveldt started smashin them. They are running ahead of the law in their global dealings. It is a tremendous financial opportunity to play governments against each other, to engage in dealings designed for just short term profit, to use national boundaries to their advantage, etc. But it is unethical and does not put people first. Some would argue that it is government's job to rein them in as their job is to make money. Maybe so but government isn't doing their job - in fact they've done just the opposite with deregulation. Course who owns government? Big business of course. Who suffers - the little man with no voice - except on Tractorbynet.

As for protecting the consumer - I think knowledge is power. The ability to find your parts elsewhere is important. There are many good mechanics around for most things. Longtrman - I found a list of who manufacturers who on wicki which is a start.

I grew up on Ford, Farmall (IH), Case with the odd MM and even one Deere. Both my grandparents and a couple of my uncles all mechaniced their own equipment (tractors, combines, balers, thrashin machines, the whole works) just as my father until too old mechaniced his highway tractor trailers (unless on the road). When I was a kid one time we were traveling for Thanksgiving. Half way there (400 mile trip) the engine threatened to throw a rod - knocking like mad. Drove 10 miles SLOW into a town. A service station owner let my stepfather use his tools and went and got a parts guys to open his store so my stepfather could get parts and my stepfather replaced rods and bearings (he knew mechanicin too) while we waited. It was an old IH Travelall with a straight 6. Without dealer support at reasonable costs America is going to have to go back to this way of functioning. I don't think it would necessarily be a bad thing - and I won't buy anything that looks too complicated under the hood.

-Ed-

 

[SESS]

EasyEd-

"Just who did Textron have a financing deal with. Dealers individually? Escorts? Escorts on behalf of dealers? Who? What does the fine print say? Apparently not Dealers as credit limits were ignored and tractors delivered. Apparently not just Escorts as dealers are liable financially. If it was with Escorts on behalf of dealers then doesn't that leave dealers holding the financial bag if they have no control over their inventory levels and credit limits are ignored? Then either Textron is "taking advantage" of a situation to force financial liability onto dealers or they maybe believed Escorts propaganda about tractor sales, ability to pay, etc and were also hoodwinked. The question is simply - did they know? Escorts apparently simply raided the company - virtually no doubt in my mind. How much of what they did is actually illegal I've no idea but they certainly did not embrace the idea of being in the tractor business long term."



DING, DING, DING lights are flashing BLINK, BLINK, BLINK and you won the big Red teddy bear!!!

 

[redneckford]

Hey All,

Blue... - those articles on FarmTrac were very interesting. They lead one to wonder

Just who did Textron have a financing deal with. Dealers individually? Escorts? Escorts on behalf of dealers? Who? What does the fine print say? Apparently not Dealers as credit limits were ignored and tractors delivered. Apparently not just Escorts as dealers are liable financially. If it was with Escorts on behalf of dealers then doesn't that leave dealers holding the financial bag if they have no control over their inventory levels and credit limits are ignored? Then either Textron is "taking advantage" of a situation to force financial liability onto dealers or they maybe believed Escorts propaganda about tractor sales, ability to pay, etc and were also hoodwinked. The question is simply - did they know? Escorts apparently simply raided the company - virtually no doubt in my mind. How much of what they did is actually illegal I've no idea but they certainly did not embrace the idea of being in the tractor business long term.
WITHOUT DEALER SUPPORT at reasonable costs America is going to have to go back to this way of functioning. I don't think it would necessarily be a bad thing - and I won't buy anything that looks too complicated under the hood.

-Ed-

ED----i give credit where credit is due---you are a fast learner----Farmtrac and textron did just what wall street has done to the rest of the world with this FUNNY PAPER----no one knows what it is ready worth----American Companies get bail out dollars (See John Deere $2 Billion in Bailout Funds) and the Farmtrac Dealers lose everything that they have worked a life time to accumulate----makes you wonder about that Boston Tea Party----what really caused it????----no Kings down here for a reason!!!! Reread the whole thread and most of your questions will be answered------$ome Textron employees will not qualify for saint hood anytime soon!!!!!

 

[redneckford]

Blue---heard there was a BIG Boat going down the Red River the other Day ----heard it was big enough to have a putting green on the back----you don't reckon----?????-----some "old guy" back there hitting cow patties ----has to be_____!!!!!! some say it looked like one of those big Textron CEO boats???? you don't reckon tax___ done went and bought the whole darn company----and is busy re----"organ"---izing the personnel!!!!????? WHILE he is on a boat RIDE!??

 

[taxpayer]

Blue---heard there was a BIG Boat going down the Red River the other Day ----heard it was big enough to have a putting green on the back----you don't reckon----?????-----some "old guy" back there hitting cow patties ----has to be_____!!!!!! some say it looked like one of those big Textron CEO boats???? you don't reckon tax___ done went and bought the whole darn company----and is busy re----"organ"---izing the personnel!!!!????? WHILE he is on a boat RIDE!??

NAW RED, I ain't bought no company yet, got sidetracted with a hospital stay for a few days, must have got aholt of some of that rotten baloney these cats been dishing out to the farmtrac dealers.gotta get back to work on getting my boat.

 

[Tim C.]

Dang happy to hear for you Taxpayer.

Glad you are well.

Tim