FarmTrac Troubles

[California]

... from what I have read so far, there will be lawsuits coming out of this by someone, be it a dealer, consumer, creditor group or state attorney general.

Before the posse mounts up and charges off in all directions ...

Looking at this from the outside, I don't see anything to recover. I think the starting point in analyzing this is to rank the creditors in the order they will get paid, by state law or specific contracts. Just my rough guess:
Property tax
wage withholdings not yet sent to feds, state, etc.
wages
corporate income tax
local utilities
big lenders
materials and parts suppliers, overseas tractor manufacturers
owed to dealers and customers, warranty claims, finance rebates, etc
stockholders equity.

(what did I miss?)

An early post in this thread said lenders had claims near $15 million and Farmtrac's present assets are $12 million. Rough numbers, but it gives us something to talk about.

Now, looking at those auction photos I wonder if there really can be $12 million in auction proceeds.

So after the auction, if the proceeds are applied to debts in the same order as I listed above, who gets paid?

Also - the claimants below the cutoff line amount to a negative equity that any successor company will have to settle with, before they could restart the company.

It looks to me there is little to be gained by lawsuits or talk of getting the company going again.

Now - can somebody that knows something, connect the dots and give us a clearer presentation of where things stand?

 

[rascoil]

It is very Enron-esque. I would refine your point of this being "all because of lies" statement. I see it as being all because of greed. This in turn fostered the lies.

Wonder why the CEO/CFO went to India when all this started going south? My speculation is because it puts them outside the jurisdiction of the North Carolina Attorney General and the United States Justice Department. Yes, I'm cynical. But only because I've seen this before.

This is a good thought, I have sorta found out that one of the so called Indians owns the local Comfort Inn Hotel in this town. From the way Sushil talked. Just a hunch, so I guess they will be building a new one with the loot they got before they run to India.

 

[sseelhoff]

Before the posse mounts up and charges off in all directions ...

Looking at this from the outside, I don't see anything to recover. I think the starting point in analyzing this is to rank the creditors in the order they will get paid, by state law or specific contracts. Just my rough guess:
Property tax
wage withholdings not yet sent to feds, state, etc.
wages
corporate income tax
local utilities
big lenders
materials and parts suppliers, overseas tractor manufacturers
owed to dealers and customers, warranty claims, finance rebates, etc
stockholders equity.

(what did I miss?)

An early post in this thread said lenders had claims near $15 million and Farmtrac's present assets are $12 million. Rough numbers, but it gives us something to talk about.

Now, looking at those auction photos I wonder if there really can be $12 million in auction proceeds.

So after the auction, if the proceeds are applied to debts in the same order as I listed above, who gets paid?

Also - the claimants below the cutoff line amount to a negative equity that any successor company will have to settle with, before they could restart the company.

It looks to me there is little to be gained by lawsuits or talk of getting the company going again.

Now - can somebody that knows something, connect the dots and give us a clearer presentation of where things stand?

I understand your point, and I'm not advocating this action, but prognosticating what will likely occur. And in that regard, I'm not talking about corporate liablity, but personal liability for the managment group and individuals involved post receivership.

Enron is a classic example. The company itself was in the same situation, but the creditors were able to recover substantial judgments against Ken Lay and other members of the Board of Directors and Corporate Officers. (And then there was the criminal prosecutions as well, but that is less likely here since it was not a publicly traded company).

 

[rascoil]

Before the posse mounts up and charges off in all directions ...

Looking at this from the outside, I don't see anything to recover. I think the starting point in analyzing this is to rank the creditors in the order they will get paid, by state law or specific contracts. Just my rough guess:
Property tax
wage withholdings not yet sent to feds, state, etc.
wages
corporate income tax
local utilities
big lenders
materials and parts suppliers, overseas tractor manufacturers
owed to dealers and customers, warranty claims, finance rebates, etc
stockholders equity.

(what did I miss?)

An early post in this thread said lenders had claims near $15 million and Farmtrac's present assets are $12 million. Rough numbers, but it gives us something to talk about.

Now, looking at those auction photos I wonder if there really can be $12 million in auction proceeds.

So after the auction, if the proceeds are applied to debts in the same order as I listed above, who gets paid?

Also - the claimants below the cutoff line amount to a negative equity that any successor company will have to settle with, before they could restart the company.

It looks to me there is little to be gained by lawsuits or talk of getting the company going again.

Now - can somebody that knows something, connect the dots and give us a clearer presentation of where things stand?

My wife is an attorney and from what she can see is, they will sell off what they can, pay what they can, and then file for bankruptcy. So what little assets are left will then be sold and you all will get about .05 to .11 cents for every dollar you are owed. To be honest there is nothing legally that can be done until they file for bankruptcy. So you will just be wasting you money if you even pay a lawyer for a sit down. There is nothing I have found you could do. If there was I would not be paying to have a motor installed my self. I am just lucky I got a motor. That pretty much sums it up.

 

[tommybr]

Ever notice how many big crooked companies end with "ron"....Enron, etc.

 

[SESS]

An early post in this thread said lenders had claims near $15 million and Farmtrac's present assets are $12 million. Rough numbers, but it gives us something to talk about.

Before Lewpack website took off the 900+ tractors they had listed for sale, it totaled little over $12 million. As we all know about equipment auctions, there is no telling what the price will bring for the stuff. BUT look at the economy right now, I don't think things will go high. I certainly don't see the people who live in Tarboro to run out and spend, spend, spend. That town is small and probably 3/4 of them know people that work at Farmtrac or dealers who have been effected by all this. It will be an interesting couple weeks leading up the auction.

 

[rascoil]

I understand your point, and I'm not advocating this action, but prognosticating what will likely occur. And in that regard, I'm not talking about corporate liablity, but personal liability for the managment group and individuals involved post receivership.

Enron is a classic example. The company itself was in the same situation, but the creditors were able to recover substantial judgments against Ken Lay and other members of the Board of Directors and Corporate Officers. (And then there was the criminal prosecutions as well, but that is less likely here since it was not a publicly traded company).

That is very true seeing they are a privately held company. The laws affect them in a hole new way. They can almost take the money and run and they know it. Textron is safe because they are just trying to recoup there losses. But the two Fellows that run out of the country are the real criminals. They could get no more then a slap on the wrist. Just look at the guy that took down the UK bank. For Billions he is looking at what 5 years and a fine, please. These kind of clowns need to get a life sentence for there actions. Some one some where got paid. Paid well. Follow the money. That is all some one has to do.

 

[sseelhoff]

Ever notice how many big crooked companies end with "ron"....Enron, etc.

Like the song says

"Go on, take the money and ron."


Ok, bad joke, but I couldn't resist the hanging curveball.

 

[taxpayer]

Just to make this clear-Court appoints Morrow as the receiver. Morrow(?) brings in Doug Gurkins to serve as CEO/Assistant Receiver. Gurkins then signs deal with Countryboy Auctions & Realty, a company in which he has an ownership interest, to handle the disposition of the assets, for which he (or his company) will no doubt receive a fee.

This is clearly a conflict of interest. If Gurkins was behind the Lewpack debacle as well, he may really have a problem. I hope whatever money he makes is enough to compensate him for the headache he is going to have once the lawsuits start flying. And from what I have read so far, there will be lawsuits coming out of this by someone, be it a dealer, consumer, creditor group or state attorney general.

You are absolutly right about the lawsuits.but we need to stay focused on gathering info and exploring every angle,Don't get tunnelvision because we are angry,and it,s hard not to be.I know I would like to see these characters talked to by hand until we come to agreement. I said this to someone recently,"before we can win this battle in a court of law,we need to win the battle of public opinion", and I believe we are winning that battle.----Taxpayer

 

[country69]

i dont think nobody local will be buying alot of these tractor cause its deere country around the tarboro area ..and the town probally has a population of 11-12 thousand and its mostly the big famers left around here and they dont have no use got these little tractors much

 

[rascoil]

An early post in this thread said lenders had claims near $15 million and Farmtrac's present assets are $12 million. Rough numbers, but it gives us something to talk about.

Before Lewpack website took off the 900+ tractors they had listed for sale, it totaled little over $12 million. As we all know about equipment auctions, there is no telling what the price will bring for the stuff. BUT look at the economy right now, I don't think things will go high. I certainly don't see the people who live in Tarboro to run out and spend, spend, spend. That town is small and probably 3/4 of them know people that work at Farmtrac or dealers who have been effected by all this. It will be an interesting couple weeks leading up the auction.

You hit that on the head, There is about 2000 folks in that town and most of them lost there textile jobs and money is thin from what I could tell. I cant even post the stuff I found out at the local waffle house. LOL

 

[case1570]

I think something that should be researched is Doug Gurkins and Country Boys Auction & Realty. The size of this mess sure warrants more than a small auction company. We as creditors need to get the maximum dollar amount from the remaining assets. He may be up to the task but from the professionalism, or lack there of, so far makes me wonder who owed who a favor. I am not sure he can do Farmtac justice. Two auctioneers and a couple of ring men are not going to get top dollar. Lets see what we can find.

Case

 

[country69]

You hit that on the head, There is about 2000 folks in that town and most of them lost there textile jobs and money is thin from what I could tell. I cant even post the stuff I found out at the local waffle house. LOL

lol there aint nothing like going to the waffle house in tarboro..here the daily town news lol

 

[sseelhoff]

You are absolutly right about the lawsuits.but we need to stay focused on gathering info and exploring every angle,Don't get tunnelvision because we are angry,and it,s hard not to be.I know I would like to see these characters talked to by hand until we come to agreement. I said this to someone recently,"before we can win this battle in a court of law,we need to win the battle of public opinion", and I believe we are winning that battle.----Taxpayer

Different perspectives. I'm looking at the forest, you're looking at the trees. Just different angles on the whole situation. I've always been a big picture/theories/analysis/wild a** speculation guy. I admire the work you have done on this. You clearly are a top notch detective!

 

[rascoil]

This is what I am getting out of Pack

Hi Paul,
I need to know where these are being shipped.
Thanks
Bobby Pack
Email: bobbypack@lewpackinternational.com


Hi Paul,
I am trying to find a Farmtrac Dealer who has this model and can help you. Maybe in the morning before I get back with you.
Thanks
Bobby Pack



I doubt he will respond to me again. Just a thought

He don't have any tractors he is just trying to play middle man. I would think he is talking to you dealers under a different name and company wanting to help you out. So he can help himself out also.

 

[rascoil]

Well I could of been wrong about that one, he did contact me again. Maybe this is who he is working for or I guess he is just trying to play broker now and collect a commission now. Hope he is not too pissed at me.

Hi Paul,

Someone from Rockwood Tractor Sales in Vidor Texas Should be contacting you tomorrow morning. I just spoke with the sales dept and gave them your email address.

Their phone number is 409-786-****.

Please contact me if I can be of any further assistance.

Thanks
Bobby Pack

 

[case1570]

Can we give LewPak a chance. He will be listing my tractors and wants them to go out of country. He stated to me if he has an in country buyer he would rather put them in touch with a dealer in that area. He seems to have the background in overseas shipping. Get a wire transfer before you ship, pay him a fair fee and let him move some tractors into Escorts back yard. Any other avenues that sound better?

Case

I am begining to think some people want these tractors to sit around?

 

[longtrman]

To All:

I think that a good part of Textron's lost 14Million is sitting on our lots. In other words they knew when the mess started that the tractors would be worthless or nearly so and accounted for what we owe them as though it was owed by FARMTRAC. The only other senario I see is maybe Textron funded the 10Million expansion at FARMTRAC. We all know all that what is owed to LS, Same and Escorts is perhaps a parts bill. Textron funded the purchase as Tim said on the water. Next thing to consider is Textron will be suing all 300 of us individually. 300 consumers can sue a company as a class but one company cannot sue 300 dealers as a class. When they decide enough is enough they won't accept the tractors in lieu of part of the money we owe them unless a judge orders it and that is not likely. Why do they not have to take the tractors as part payment? Simple -we all signed personal guarantees that we would pay regardless of what our dealerships paid.

Speaking of a new name for FARMTRAC, did any of you actually get the name FARMTRAC established? I still get people calling saying they know the tractor is Farm Pro and want nothing to do with any Chinese tractor. If I'm lucky they have never heard of Farmtrac or Farm Pro.

 

[Tim C.]

I want to go on record here about LewPack.

They deserve a chance to tell their side of the story. I am sure it is interesting.

Everyone that hurts you is not automatically the enemy, and everyone that helps you is not automatically your friend. Motive is the defining force in that determination.

Tim

 

[rascoil]

Can we give LewPak a chance. He will be listing my tractors and wants them to go out of country. He stated to me if he has an in country buyer he would rather put them in touch with a dealer in that area. He seems to have the background in overseas shipping. Get a wire transfer before you ship, pay him a fair fee and let him move some tractors into Escorts back yard. Any other avenues that sound better?

Case

I am begining to think some people want these tractors to sit around?

It looks more to me that Farmtrac in NC and Mr. Pack are trying to flood the market to kill any chance of dealers getting a fair price for there stock. Why would any one in There so called back yard want to purchase something that they can buy with out any terriffs that has not been to the US yet. Plus the with having to pay from 3 to 5 grand per container to get them shipped. That leaves little to what can be paid for the product for resale. Even if our so called Dollar is weak??? That Greed is a pain in the but eh.