Factory rebuilt tractors

[kayssupply]

Has anyone else seen the " factory rebuilt " tractors being sold on Ebay? That suggests that Yanmar is rebuilding them.
Heck, I guess I have a tractor factory in my garage. I just wonder why they needed " rebuilt ". The ones I have seen didn't need much more than an oil change and a seat cover.
Paint can sure do wonders for rebuilding an engine or transmission. I guess I shouldn't be so distrusting of others, but I just had to ask.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Aircraft engine manufctureres do Factory remanufacturing where the engine is taken apart, x-rayed, and put back to within factory specifications. almost as good as new. Yanmar certainly could do this, but it would cost more than the cost of the tractor. So you are correct, an outside "shop" is doing some sort of work and calling it a reman. It could be as little as changing some/all of the fluids, a paint job, and fixing/covering up the obvious problems. Everyone's fear in buying a used item is that they are getting something that is not what it purports to be. Once the machine has been painted and the fluids changed, who knows the real condition. Hour meters are not much help. Easily disconnected, and with only 3 digits, they can be incorrect, misleading (600 vs 1600 vs 2600 hours), or even replaced.

Someone should design a checklist and video that shows what needs to be inspected and how to do this.

 

[YanmarFever]

You are describing the (vietnamese tractors)
they claim the have rebuilt engines , new paint,
air cond. cruise ect...

 

[kayssupply]

The main reason I am bringing this up is that a local dealer traded for several of them. One had a bad piston. One had frozen and cracked the block during shipping ( new antifreeze?) the thirds engine siezed up shortly after unloading. But they all had new tires and even new bolts. The paint looked like new.

 

[DavesTractor]

There is a guy in Southern California (who will remain nameless) that has brought in a bunch of Vietnamese rebuilt tractors. I'm sure many others in different parts of the US are using this supplier as well. These are real rough tractors bought cheap, them rebuilt. The cosmetics are good, but the mechanicals are poorly done. A good way to spot these is to look for the new bolts almost everywhere. From a good source I understand they are having a great deal of problems with them. I'd stay away from such tractors. As we all know, if you take good care of a tractor it can last decades. Why buy something that has been thrashed and re-done. Instead, buy a well cared for low hour machine.

 

[heehaw]

i just saw those on ebay yesterday, they look pretty good, but i got the impression the shop in SC of NC, was doing the rebuilding?? i wondered the same as the rest of you, all the ones i have seen were pretty slick and low hours, why did they need the rebuild?? i think it mentioned 2 hours on the meter since the major rebuild.
heehaw

 

[jimstractors]

There is a "dealer" near me (probably the one Dave's referring to) selling the Vietnam "rebuilds". They look real slick and shiny, but from what I've heard, many have severe mechanical problems. Many are fitted with Nuco loaders.
Jim

 

[Whiskey]

Thinking we have all seen the "FACTORY REBUILT" at one time or another. Now that I have a greater love for the Yanmar YM187 that I own since I've found this site and have learned what a little jem of a tractor that Yanmar builds, I see this all the time on E-bay our local equipment trader mag. we even have a florida dealer up in the pan handel that claims this in his adds in the equipment trader, these tractors are a lovely shade of John Deer green with bright yellow rims sure looks and smells of a Handlers tractor from up north. Factory re-built my back side.
I have learned so much in the past 6 months or so and that is just from crusing around the web watching, lisitioning and learning, I have already found what I feel are good quilty folks that state what they sell and are willing to find and share what info or find what part you need some dealers will leave you a E-mail addy or for gods sake a phone # where you can reach them and talk to them, this is your real dealer that has his heart into what he's doing. No B.S. just the facts "yes it's close to 20 years old, yes it's used, yes it came from Japan, yes I will stand behind it and help you in anyway I can because I want your buiness and the guy that lives next door to you too!!!!
Sorry for ranting and raving but you as a consummer are the one who has to be responsable for when, where & why you spend your money. Just because it's a tractor dosn't make it any differant from spending your hard earned money on anything else you buy in life (maybe I should take my hard earned money and take a spelling class?). Do I think this practious should stop with this so called Factory Re-built garbage yes of course I do and this is the form where it starts with learning and sharing that info with others.
OK, I'm all but talked out here but I have one question. being what I have just blabed out here am I wrong in beliving that Yanmar factory in Japan has no intresed in re-building there tractors because the intress lays in selling new tractors in Japan with the goverment incentives for rice farmers to buy new every 15-20 years and that what we call 'GRAY MARKET" tractors are some what of a problem of "what in gods name are we going to do woth all these tractors we have building up in out country" here is where the importer comes in and says hey we can find a market on these tractors you have and make some money too??????am I right or way off base?

Whiskey

 

[Anonymous Poster]

You are not off base, but the tractors in really bad condition don't just disappear. They get re-incarnated by being bought extremely cheaply, and then having something done to them. Ever see all the junk cars sitting around in yards in the country. What if someone offered $500 for the non wrecked ones, painted them, changed the oil and fluid. You'd have a pretty piece of junk with new fluids. Unless they replaced the entire drive train, it would still be junk.

This is not to say that you can't rebuild a old car, tractor, etc. Talk to someone who rebuilds cars--its a hobby, not a business because you only get out what you put in (and virtually nothing for the labor).

So these people are probably making some misrepresentation to make money because they certainly aren't doing it for a hobby.

 

[Whiskey]

Cfoxmd:
Thanks I've just learned a little more I wasn't dividing the junk out from what is really worth selling.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

The question is, if everybody is painting the tractors, how does one separate the wheat from the chaff. New bolts as someone mentioned maybe a good hint that the old ones looked really bad. If someone is doing full rebuilds all the more power to them.

Certainly many 20 year old tractors have lots of engine life in them, but some do not. Which are which?

 

[Whiskey]

Cfoxmd:
Good point there is now way you could make money(like you said) ripping a used tractor apart rebuilding and painting only to reassamble it for sale under say $5-6 grand or $8-10 grand for that matter.

sooner or later you won't have time in a day to play this game or your price will get to close to what a new tractor could be bought for

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Well, what I am saying is that there must be value in the drive train for the tractor to be worth reselling or fixing up. Old car without a motor is not worth much, an old car with good motor is worth less than the cost of the motor. However if you fix up the rest you have a functional car for less. Well cared for machinery, especially diesels last a long time.

A good drive train means that there is still value and that the ancillaries and accesories can restore the tractor to a good value.

Dealers should only buy unpainted tractors, take pictures of the condition before painting and pictures after painting. The pre-painting pics would give the purchaser a clue to the actual condition before work.

I am in no way saying that people can't import a good used tractor, fix them up some and make a profit. The question of the matter is how does one tell the internal condition of the drive train when everything has been painted and the fluids have been changed. I can't think of much other than buying from someone that other buyers have had good experience.

 

[kayssupply]

Another sign to look for is chrome plated parts that did not come from the factory chromed. Like the grab bars on the fenders and the shifter arm on the older tractors.

I am glad that so far everyone more or less agrees with the statements I have made. No one taking the other side on this issue is a pretty good sign to stay away from them.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Anyone know the actual cost to have an engine and/or a transmission rebuilt? I don't, who does it this type of work anyway? Buy a tractor that has not been painted so you can tell the average wear and tear with the assumption that you will need some repairs or buy a piece of junk and have the engine and transmission rebuilt if parts are available. If you want to have it shiny, paint it. Then you know what you have. You are not depending on someone else's word to determine condition, you have indicators.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Oh, by the way, a 235 hp airplane engine costs 35,000 after core credit. You get a warranty too.

 

[LMTC]

This thread is a goodly part of what I have been ranting about in various places all summer (including here). In 9 years we have had 3 (count 'em, THREE) total repaints on our lot. We buy the best grade we can get, repair what needs repairing, and sell them. Occasionally we'll paint a fender, or a hood if it was significantly spotted, or scraped in shipping (happens a fair bit).
Our business, like some others, has been hurt by the abundance of these Asian grade units (and that is exactly what the Japanese suppliers call them...they are very low grade, sold commonly to other places in Asia) which tend to look spiffy to the untrained eye, and have been brought up to "runnable" (it will start and it will run) condition (as opposed to "good running" condition, which to us means operating condition, i.e., ready to go do what it was designed to do with every reasonable expectation the major components are sound).
From what we have seen these units will likely have a high rate of failure. We have had people look here, then buy one of those units elsewhere (in some cases because they were told it was a 2000 or 2001 model year Yanmar, despite our warning them of such lies), then want us to work on it, several times within a couple weeks of buying. We won't work on them if we determine they were Asian grade....because after our repair, the next system failure (and many to follow) will be all too easily blamed on our workmanship. These tractors are money pits. Good grief, if they were viable merchandise and could be sold for less than what we are buying now, don't folks think those who have been in this for some time would be buying them? In any case, we have always said "Be wary of the dealer whose tractors are all repainted." NOTE--before someone flames me, I did NOT say a dealer with all repaints is a scoundrel...I said "Be wary".
As always, if you want a tractor with the highest likelihood of being a reliable unit, shop an established dealer with a good reputation who has been in this market a while.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I've read good things about you at LMTC. You should tell these people with vietnamese "rebuilt" tractors to look at the tractor, tell them that in general they have too many problems for you to work on and therefore your policy is that you will give them advice, help them with parts and manuals but not take it in trade. Then you are giving them some advice and help but not taking responsibility for their problem. Print up a sheet on your computer and give it to them with the reasons. Some will think that your just being an %$**, but others will appreciate the parts source and advice. You might get a few new customers.

 

[tractorlet]

The repaints and remans have been around for a long time. This is not new. The Handler repaints are well known. They had some dealers claiming they were factory rebuilt (by a rebuild factory). In fact, some Handler dealers today claim their tractors are Vietnamese remans. An interesting question is who is the Vietnamese reman and is there a single importer.

As others have said, there is nothing inherently good or bad about a repaint or a reman. Time will tell, probably very soon, and the verdict will be in on what many rightly fear might be the case.

It should be of concern on the start over to -0- hours but of course that could be a two edged sword.

How does a buyer know if they can depend on the tractor? They should buy from someone who has an established place of business and been in business for at least two to three years so that the year warranty given can be relied upon.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

A reman can be good or bad and a repainted tractor can be good or bad. It just depends on the underlying tractor before the treatment. You just don't have much way to tell. Buy an unpainted tractor and get it painted--but don't buy the one with lots of rust just because you are getting it painted.