F2400 Starting Problem

[hwp]

Over the past year of so my F2400 (basically a B2400 turned around to go the other way)has been developing an increasingly frequent starting problem. Initially it occured once in a while but lately it has become more like once every two or three times when I try to start the tractor. When I turn the key to the start position, the starter solenoid clicks but the starter motor does not turn. Sometimes if I turn the key on and off a few times it will kick in, other times it won't. Sometimes if I leave it for a while and come back it will start. I know it is not a safety switch because the solenoid clicks - it doesn't do so if a safety switch is open. The instrument panel and ignition switch are on the right fender, and although there is a splash panel, the wiring is subjected to water, mud, salt, etc. - ideal conditons for corrosion.

I have replaced the battery and battery cables. I had the starter motor checked. They put a new plunger in the solenoid but otherwise it was OK. I subsequently had it rechecked - they say I must have a low voltage supply problem to the solenoid and that the plunger is not fully engaging. When it doesn't start on its own, it will start right up if I briefly put a charger on the battery - which supports the low voltage theory. Before I do anything more, I will use a voltmeter to check the voltage going to the solenoid. If it varies then I know I have a conneciton problem.

I suspect I have a bad connection somewhere between the starter switch and the solenoid - possibly even a worn out starter switch. The old girl is nearly 20 years old and has several thousand hours on it. There are three multicircuit disconnects between the starter switch and the solenoid. I am somewhat afraid to open these up as in doing so, I may destroy the connector blocks. This happened yesterday when I mistakenly opened another connector block. It was badly corroded to the point that some of the connectors broke off or came out of the blocks. I found that some of the trailer wiring harnesses have six lead connector blocks and I was able to spice a male and female pair of these into the circuits to replace the original multicircuit connector terminals.

Does anybody have any other thoughts as to possible causes of this problem?

 

[LQPAPPY]

Have a sixteen + year old G1900 with twenty-five hundred hours and the last couple of years it has had starting problems that come and go, but I think they are safety switch related. However, my Kubota dealer installed a kit at the starter that is supposed to be very forgiving of low voltage. Whether it really helps or not I don't know but you might inquire.

 

[hwp]

Thanks for the tip LQPAPPY. I started thinking about what might be in the Kubota kit when it struck me that a simple relay should work - use the feed from the wiring harness to energize the relay to feed the solenoid directly from the battery. The neat aspect of this is that it keeps all the safety switches in play. I'll check out the Kubota kit but I'll bet I can rig a relay much cheaper - especially since I think I already have one left over from a fog light kit. Thanks again.

 

[hwp]

I contacted the local Kubota dealer this morning and they are not aware of any kit from Kubota to deal with low voltage to the starter solenoid. BUT they did say that when they run across this problem (and it sounds as though it is fairly common) they put a relay in the circuit from the starter switch to the solenoid so that the solenoid gets full battery voltage. I found a couple of Bosch relays amonst my electrical bits and pieces so I will install one and see if it solves the problem. Once again, thanks for the tip.

 

[Farmall45b]

If this tractor uses a nippondenso style starter, it is very possible that you have worn starter contacts. This is very common on many of the cars that I see at my shop. Does the starter make on solid click? Or is it a rapid clicking like when a battery is low? Let me know what the case may be. If it is a denso style starter and making one solid click it probably needs contacts and is really easy assumeing the starter is accesable.

 

[B2400]

Do a search for B2400 starter problems. As I recall this isn't uncommon for these series of tractors. Mine is becoming more stubborn to engage starter also and I think the relay might be the answer. If I recall, the relay kit is from Deere.

 

[hwp]

Now that I know what to look for, I have tried repeatedly to get the problem to recur. So far it hasn't - but when it does, I will check to voltage going to the solendoid, and if it less than 12V, I will install a relay in accordance with the attached diagram. I have the wiring harness ready to go - all I have to do to install it is cut the feed line to the solenoid, crimp on the bullet connectors, connect the wires to their appropraite terminals and, attached the bracket for the relay and switch to the firewall. The bullet connectors will give me the flexibility to quickly remove the relay harness should I want to do so sometime in the future. I included a switch in the harness so that I can operate in normal mode unless there is a problem. Then a quick flick of the switch and the relay circuit will activated. I had a Bosch relay and socket from a fog light application in my electrical spare parts bin so used it. Similar relay and socket sets are available at more auto parts stores for less than $10 - the local Kubota dealer wanted $40 for just the relay! Once again, thanks for the many helpful suggestions.

 

[Farmerford]

Howard:

Please let us know what you discover. I have an eight year old B2400 that started doing the same thing a year ago. So far it has cranked each time after several tries and, having lots of other more pressing projects, I have just been getting by like it is. But it will probably put me down completely one day, and it will be nice to know what to do.

Thanks.

 

[LQPAPPY]

HWP,

I will try and look at my G1900 and see if that is similar. I know it is connected with spade terminals so if I have a safety switch issue I can unplug and go straight to the starter and bypass the switches for a quick start. It will be a couple of days before I get a chance to compare the drawing. Going to the International RV Dealers Show in Louisville. Will post when I check.

 

[Chip86]

HWP,

Along the lines of what Farmall45b posted, if you have a remote starter button (2 wires and a plunger) like mechanics use to bump over an engine while working under the hood, you could attach the 2 leads directly to your starter solenoid and battery terminals at the starter when the problem occurs. If using the starter button cranks the engine when the key won't, then you know you have a non-starter related problem, which you already suspect.

 

[bruski]

My b2400 was inconsistent in starting just as described here. Installed the Deere low voltage relay as described in the thread(s) below and that took care of it. $20 I think at the Deere dealer.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/111713-b2400-starter.html

Bruski

 

[hwp]

As luck would have it, the tractor has been starting just like it should for the past two weeks or so - first turn of the key every time. I had it out twice today blowing snow. I still have the relay harness ready to install but so far no need. The spreader on the back of the tractor blocks the opening of the hood so when the time comes that I have to install the relay harness, I will have to dismount the spreader - not a bit deal, but enough to keep me from installing the relay before it is needed. I am also wondering if I may have jarred a connection in the starting circuit when I rewired the instrument panel connector block. At this point I don't care - I'm following the old rule of if it isn't broken don't fix it!

 

[hwp]

The starting problem reared its ugly head several times over the past few months. When necessary, I got around this by using a jumper wire between the battery and the starter solenoid. I was waiting for a "rainy" day to fix it properly. We have had quite a bit of rain lately and that has made golfing less attractive than normal. So yesterday, while it was raining again, I finally got around to installing the relay system for the starter solenoid. I followed the wiring plan I posted earlier and now have a switch on my instrument panel that allows me to use either the orignal setup or the relay circuit. I guess that in the course of installing the new system, I ran the battery down and eventually the solenoid would only click. So after I had everyting installed I flipped the switch over to utilize the relay and tried starting the engine - it started immediately. After a few minutes of running and recharging the battery, I turned the engine off and tried starting it with the switch positioned to use the original setup - and it worked. There is no need to have a switch in the circuit as the relay could be used all the time - but I like to keep things as original as possible (probably due to my automobile restoration interests).

The bottom line to all this is that if all you get is a click when you try starting your engine, run a jumper wire from the positive post of your battery to the solenoid connector on your starter motor. If it turns over, you probably have a low voltage problem due to aging wiring. Installing a relay in the circuit will overcome the problem.