Estate Planning and Trust Accounts

[ultrarunner]

As long as you have sane relatives your comment makes sense. However, given some family circumstances, sometimes someone not related to you would make better sense to be the executor given some family dynamics IMO.

A sincere question... if bills need to be paid by the deceaseds executor for whatever reason, why would any loving family member be upset the least bit if a family member who was the executor got reimbursed from the trust for what they paid if it came out of their own pocket? Is there a dollar limit that is acceptable to pay out of your own pocket, say like $8,000 for a funeral that wasn't planned?

End of the day, this is a first world issue. Some people living in the US are not so fortunate that they can't even afford a proper burial for a loved one, let alone having to deal with money "left over".

I just reimbursed myself for the funeral expenses paid in May... $5500. Mom's lawyer said to just keep track and ok to pull from her individual savings which I am on.

Also things like the ambulance, her house utilities, property tax already here, home owners, car registration...

With the 2 Trusts plus mom it's juggling 3 different entities each having bills to paid and income to account for plus annual tax filings and professional fees.

The nity-grity comes in with the disposition of non cash assets.

 

[Torvy]

As long as you have sane relatives your comment makes sense. However, given some family circumstances, sometimes someone not related to you would make better sense to be the executor given some family dynamics IMO.

I was only talking about my siblings. My mom is one of 8 and their situation put such a bad taste in our mouths, we just don't want the loss of our parents to drive us apart.

 

[Sigarms]

I was only talking about my siblings. My mom is one of 8 and their situation put such a bad taste in our mouths, we just don't want the loss of our parents to drive us apart.

My dad was one of 10 and my mom one of 12. Pretty much all my aunts and uncles on both sides of my parents family had 3-5 childrent themselves.

Way I see it, the more family you have, the greater the odds of having bat crap crazy in the family.

Believe me, I can tell you stories about bat crap crazy relatives LOL

That said, in my families defense of bat crap crazy, we have doctors, engineers, business owners and internation bankers include as well. Whole hodge podge.

Perhaps one odd reason why I'm glad I was an only child LOL

 

[Sigarms]

Also things like the ambulance, her house utilities, property tax already here, home owners, car registration...

Add in back taxes that weren't paid for 50 years, oil bill for the furnace along with money fixing the house to try and sell it. Those are some of the reasons why my aunt "disinherited" my father when he was the exectutor of the "family house" because in her mind, her being the oldest child, she should get the house and my father was spending her money.

If your siblings don't HAVE to have the money (in their minds to "survive") and they aren't questioning every move you make as the executor, consider yourself a very blessed man

 

[JethroB]

My dad’s Will instructed me as executor to create & place certain income producing assets into a Trust. I am sole trustee. I requested a TIN online from the IRS. I then rolled the assets into the Trust and opened a simple business checking account in the Trust’s name. Annually checks are written by me to family members to distribute the net income from the Trust as instructed in his Will. They each annually receive a K-1 (like a 1099) for tax purposes. When me and my siblings are gone the trust dissolves and the adult grandkids get it all. There is no trust document other than the Will. Pretty simple. It never occurred to me for a bank or any other paid entity to be involved. For our purposes it wasn’t necessary.

Thank you Dad for keeping it simple and extending your wishes and hard earned possessions out a generation before it could possibly be squandered. And for placing such trust in me.

 

[ultrarunner]

I was only talking about my siblings. My mom is one of 8 and their situation put such a bad taste in our mouths, we just don't want the loss of our parents to drive us apart.

Mom is one of 10 where the farm passes to the next generation, generally the oldest male, with the proviso should land be sold the proceeds apportioned equally to siblings…

It has worked well for generations… and kept the farm together.

The few grandparent’s personal belongings were amicably partitioned when moms parents passed with zero drama…

Mom being the oldest girl received her moms bible and rosary… another the sewing machine, another dinnerware, etc.

 

[ultrarunner]

Add in back taxes that weren't paid for 50 years, oil bill for the furnace along with money fixing the house to try and sell it. Those are some of the reasons why my aunt "disinherited" my father when he was the exectutor of the "family house" because in her mind, her being the oldest child, she should get the house and my father was spending her money.

If your siblings don't HAVE to have the money (in their minds to "survive") and they aren't questioning every move you make as the executor, consider yourself a very blessed man

Too early to tell… both financially sound.

One brother physically moved out the day after graduation from High School… no bad feelings but for 6 years he worked summers on a ranch in Nevada… it was always an adjustment coming home at the end of summer after being so independent… dad worked at the same ranch in the 1940’s

My parents were strict and said under this roof we have rules… brother said I respect that so no drama but also why he moved out High School Graduation…

We all had been working at an early age and he supported himself as weekend stable manager and graduated UC Berkeley…

Other moved out in college when his college friends were desperate to pay rent when one dropped out of school… it was an offer too good to pass on.

I was involved with work, school and helping my parents/grandparents so even when I moved it was just 2 minutes away… and I checked in every day…

One prefers to liquidate everything and another would like to hold and I would like to buy moms home as it abuts mine through the back acerage…

We even have our own tractor trail linking… through the woods and over the creek to grandma’s house in real life.

 

[ultrarunner]

My dad’s Will instructed me as executor to create & place certain income producing assets into a Trust. I am sole trustee. I requested a TIN online from the IRS. I then rolled the assets into the Trust and opened a simple business checking account in the Trust’s name. Annually checks are written by me to family members to distribute the net income from the Trust as instructed in his Will. They each annually receive a K-1 (like a 1099) for tax purposes. When me and my siblings are gone the trust dissolves and the grandkids get it all. There is no trust document other than the Will. Pretty simple. It never occurred to me for a bank or any other paid entity to be involved.

Thank you Dad for keeping it simple and extending your wishes and hard earned possessions out a generation before it could possibly be squandered. And for placing such trust in me.

Did you have probate?

 

[JethroB]

Did you have probate?

Yes but no issues. Just stamping the Will and issuing a Letter Testamentary to me granting me the power to execute the Will instructions. Plus a couple thousand $$$ for the (inept) lawyer’s fees.

 

[ultrarunner]

Appreciate the reply… no matter how old… much to learn.

Dad had a little 15’ boat with outboard from the 50’s we really enjoyed as kids… after too many visits to the DMV for boat and trailer I said it can stay in dads name forever… it was valued at $300.

Maybe dumb but practical…

 

[ericm979]

I suspect that the issues are more related to the incompetence of the bank employees than the concept of having a trust.

I agree. I was executor for my mom's and my dad's (separate) estates. Both were so small that they fell under their state's no probate limits, which means the executor gets to handle all themselves. Dad's credit union was super helpful and had his account closed within weeks, even though I was in a different state and dealing with it all remotely.

Mom's bank, which had a branch in my nearest town and who I have used for 40 years, was terrible. They're one of the big banks. It was like they'd never had a customer pass away before. Every time I talked to them I got a different story of what I had to do. It took most of a year to close her very simple accounts. The same bank had sold her some useless life insurance which was taking money out of her account each month. They point blank refused to help me figure it out. I had no paper work, only a very cryptic line in the statement each month. They did know who was doing it because they told me it was an "affiliate" company, they just would not tell me. I think the incompetence is so they can delay your closing the accounts for months and keep harvesting fees. They're really quick to charge you when you overdraft your account.

 

[Omega Woods]

I honestly think a trust with propper planning is the way to go.

When my father passed away, what little he had was transfered to myself in less than 6 months with very little headache. After seeing what I didn't have to do since my parents trust was already in place, we double checked becuase we thought we set one up, but it was nothing but a will that my wife and I had when we had no kids. Heck, now even the animals are taken care of in the case of our early demise at the same time.

The reality is anytime someone dies and their are any assetts, it can be a PITA when having to deal with financial institutions. When my FIL passed a couple years ago, the biggest PITA was a trailer (through probate).

This thread made me thin of my own time as an executor for an aunt about 480 miles away from me. No trust, minimal total assetts (under 10K). I had to look because I knew I had posted about the two experiences here on this forum.

options on dealing with a lawyer?

Long story short. March 2006 my aunt died, and I was listed as the executor. My Aunt lived in Pennsylvania, I'm in NC. She was a wonderful woman, but had little money and very few assests. It was not easy trying to handle everything on my end in NC (multiple trips to PA), but I had...

www.tractorbynet.com

What was funny on my end reading this thread from 13 years ago was I forgot to mention the outcome. After the certified letter to the attorney and calling the court house explaining my situation in dealing with this lawyer, everything was finally "settled" about 2 months later.

When my aunt passed away, it was 4 years later and her simple assetts were still not taken care of properly due to a lawyer.

My only suggestion from peronal experience is that whoever you list as your executor, be it a will or an estate, reward the executor handsomely percentage wise of the assetts becaue they are the one person you trust to handle everything properly, and it can always be a gambit that it will be a PITA processs for them (the executor).

We've been blessed were we are out of complete debt (the only debt hanging over us when we got married was our house an land) and have assetts along with the home and land, and there is no way we would trust what we have to a simple will having to go through probate. The biggest area for potential headaches when talking to our own lawyer is when money is to be paid out over years or decades. Also keep in mind, the more speciffic you are with your wishes written down on what is to be done with your belongings, the less hassel it is for the executor when having to deal with the deceased's family.

Even as simple as things were with my father's estate, I still had that dang credit unions estate deparment F everything up even when I did what they told me, understanding what they were telling me to do and I'm scratching my head when they finally realized they F'ed it up when I tried telling them numerous times what they were "paying me" was too much.

Thank you. I appreciate your thoughtful response. I've read this thread with interest and recognize that I'm not going to be able to avoid doing a trust, as much as I'd like to. I don't want to burden my executor or the remaining members of my family with legal headaches after death. I am dreading dealing with my father's estate when he passes but he doesn't want to talk too much about it on the rare occasions that I see him.

 

[2manyrocks]

There's a saying in strategic planning that one step in planning saves ten steps in execution. Estate problems can be significantly reduced if some time is spent in advance looking at what the assets are and what would be the easiest method of transferring them. People are reluctant to talk about this. I get it. But one of the best things someone can do to make it easier on their family is to bite the bullet and just do the planning. It saves a lot of headaches and uncertainity and second guessing after it's too late to do anything about it.

 

[Omega Woods]

My dad’s Will instructed me as executor to create & place certain income producing assets into a Trust. I am sole trustee. I requested a TIN online from the IRS. I then rolled the assets into the Trust and opened a simple business checking account in the Trust’s name. Annually checks are written by me to family members to distribute the net income from the Trust as instructed in his Will. They each annually receive a K-1 (like a 1099) for tax purposes. When me and my siblings are gone the trust dissolves and the adult grandkids get it all. There is no trust document other than the Will. Pretty simple. It never occurred to me for a bank or any other paid entity to be involved. For our purposes it wasn’t necessary.

Thank you Dad for keeping it simple and extending your wishes and hard earned possessions out a generation before it could possibly be squandered. And for placing such trust in me.

I gotta ask, did your dad talk to you about these arrangements in advance?

 

[Omega Woods]

There's a saying in strategic planning that one step in planning saves ten steps in execution. Estate problems can be significantly reduced if some time is spent in advance looking at what the assets are and what would be the easiest method of transferring them. People are reluctant to talk about this. I get it. But one of the best things someone can do to make it easier on their family is to bite the bullet and just do the planning. It saves a lot of headaches and uncertainity and second guessing after it's too late to do anything about it.

Any practical advice on how to "do the planning"? Is it simply a matter of finding a good estate attorney and educating myself about the process? My wife and I are mid-fifties and have a lot of property in two different states. If we passed away now, it would be a nightmare for my kids (all adults).

It's too easy to just ignore the problem day by day but I know that it's time to get things squared away in case we both get hit by the beer truck.

 

[Torvy]

It is more work up front, but I recommend finding out as much as you can doing research before contacting an expert. Without some idea of what is out there and what makes sense for you, it can be nigh on impossible to tell good advice from bad. Try sites or actual books that do not have a product to sell.

 

[Omega Woods]

It is more work up front, but I recommend finding out as much as you can doing research before contacting an expert. Without some idea of what is out there and what makes sense for you, it can be nigh on impossible to tell good advice from bad. Try sites or actual books that do not have a product to sell.

Any books or sites you (or anyone) would recommend?

 

[Sigarms]

Thank you. I appreciate your thoughtful response. I've read this thread with interest and recognize that I'm not going to be able to avoid doing a trust, as much as I'd like to. I don't want to burden my executor or the remaining members of my family with legal headaches after death. I am dreading dealing with my father's estate when he passes but he doesn't want to talk too much about it on the rare occasions that I see him.

You hit the nail on the head IMO per communication.

My dad was a great man IMO, but like my mother, I know when he came to live with us, sooner or later, WE ALL DIE, no one can escape death. My father and I talked about everything, including what he wants when he dies, and since he had a trust and we were both on the same page, it was all pretty much taken care of within a couple of months after his death (except for the credit union fiasco which was no ones fault but the credit union.

My wife is becoming the executor of her aunts estate because her (wife's aunt) two boys don't want anyting to deal with the subject of their parents dying and they're grown men with families of their own. Seriously, afraid to talk about death? We are all grown adults and the time to tell your parents that you love them is when they are alive and DO WHAT THEY want you do after they die because they tell you (but the pain in the butt part is having it wrtitten down so their wishes are "legal").

For some reason, with some people, death is a taboo subject. Reality is ANYONE of us can be die in an accident tomorrow as no one is promised tomorrow.

What can be a pain with a trust is admending it, and that will cost additional money. Thing is, what you have planned for who now in the present can change drastically over the next 20 years.

The added issue is God forbid you have 4 or 6 kids who are grown adults who can't take care of themselves due to of no fault of your own. By YOU setting the parimiters of who gets what, worse case is family members are ticked at you, but you're 6' under, so who cares?

 

[2manyrocks]

Make a list of what you own and what would happen to it if you passed, your wife passed, or both of you passed. Does each asset go to whomever you intend automatically or would they have to open a probate estate? (By automatically, you may have already signed some bank account, retirement account and insurance policies beneficiary designations that will pass these accounts to specific beneficiaries without them having to do anything other than provide a death certificate to receive funds.)

For assets that do not have beneficiary designations, do you have a will naming an Executor whom you trust to serve that lays out what you want to have happen to your assets?

In the case of real estate owned in two different states, the passing of the real estate depends on how it is deeded. If you and your wife own it as husband and wife, it may pass to the survivor of you, but how it passes after the surviving spouse dies probably depends on the terms of your will. Often, husbands and wives are confused about how things are deeded. So look at the actual deeds.

Generally, your will is probated in the state where you die, and then you have to figure out the process for the state where you own other property to determine if you have to open another estate in that state or if it is sufficient to record a copy of your will as probated in the other state to evidence passing of title.

You may come to a point when you decide this is confusing or uncertain. That is when I suggest you get your papers together like copies of deeds if you have them, and go see an estate planning attorney in Chattanooga. They can look up your deeds, but it will save you a few dollars in fees if you can provide copies so they don't have to search the deeds.

The process of your looking at what you own, what you owe, how it is titled, etc will help you focus on thinking about what you want to accomplish and help you to get the most productive estate planning advice. It may not be cheap, but you spent a lifetime accumulating your assets so it's important to get good advice. You might actually save money for your heirs overall by heading off problems that could easily be avoided with planning.

 

[Sigarms]

Any practical advice on how to "do the planning"? Is it simply a matter of finding a good estate attorney and educating myself about the process? My wife and I are mid-fifties and have a lot of property in two different states. If we passed away now, it would be a nightmare for my kids (all adults).

We are in the same boat, but our one boy is only 18, and although we don't have two properties, everything we do own is paid off. What we actually have in assetts actually surprised me now that we are in our late 50's as well.

He's (our son) is not ready for a lump sum until later in our opinion if we were both to die at the same time. When he joins the military and he's not anywhere around where we live, why we wen't with an executor outside our family (wife's mother and aunt are to old in our opinion to be dealing with it) because our son isn't ready to handle that responsibility yet.

We went to a estate attorney who came reccomended, researched him, everything came back great, and so far on our end, he has been great to work with.

What we didn't plan was all of dying at the same time, so we had to make an admendent if that would have happened when we went on our family vacation together and by chance the plane went down (first admendment free but one could argue that the lawyer should have pointed that possibility out beforehand).