equipment emissions (EPA) ended

[ak9]

"All federal greenhouse gas emission standards for vehicles and engines subsequent to the 2009 declaration will be rescinded, a source familiar with the situation said."

 

[WinterDeere]

"All federal greenhouse gas emission standards for vehicles and engines subsequent to the 2009 declaration will be rescinded, a source familiar with the situation said."

... if it holds. I suspect these mandates to simply reverse with each new administration.

Remember when a President was only responsible for enforcing law passed by Congress? Yeah... me neither.

I'd be thrilled to get rid of the stupid auto-stop/start feature and cylinder de-activation, I have to turn off each on my various cars, every time I start them. But by the time I need to buy another new car, they'll probably be law again.

 

[Hay Dude]

Makes you wonder if vehicles purchased during the relaxed emissions era will, or will not be grandfathered into a future administration, if it mandates the stricter emissions standards?

Also, will existing vehicles be permitted to delete the burdensome emissions equipment they are already equipped with?

Why can’t they just offer the emissions equipment as an option and if you want cleaner emissions, you can buy them?

We would definitely learn who really is a true environmentalist, and who is just a big talker that just wants to appear virtuous. The emissions equipment adds considerable cost to a vehicle.

 

[WinterDeere]

Why can’t they just offer the emissions equipment as an option and if you want cleaner emissions, you can buy them?

Oh, geez! That is one option that would never sell, on certain vehicles. I can't imagine many Hellcat buyers opting for the "clean air package".

I'm all for anything that can be done to reduce emissions, without impacting driver experience. Cylinder de-activation is a good one, but should've been set up so you can enable/disable it permanently, not just on each re-start.

And I would like to see actual hard data that this stupid and universally-hated auto-stop/start feature acually does anything to help the environment. That includes the emissions wasted on making and installing replacement starters, due to all of the extra wear and tear on stopping and starting your engine at every stoplight. It's hard to believe that feature is actually a net-positive, in any way.

 

[ak9]

The off road market...tractors & equipment won't have to have emissions BS ...

 

[chim]

Wonder how many people in government personally profit from these things. It could be owning stock in certain industries, having relatives in certain industries, etc. I have a real distrust of our public servants (rulers?).

 

[Hay Dude]

Oh, geez! That is one option that would never sell, on certain vehicles. I can't imagine many Hellcat buyers opting for the "clean air package".

I'm all for anything that can be done to reduce emissions, without impacting driver experience. Cylinder de-activation is a good one, but should've been set up so you can enable/disable it permanently, not just on each re-start.

And I would like to see actual hard data that this stupid and universally-hated auto-stop/start feature acually does anything to help the environment. That includes the emissions wasted on making and installing replacement starters, due to all of the extra wear and tear on stopping and starting your engine at every stoplight. It's hard to believe that feature is actually a net-positive, in any way.

Not all people drive Hellcats!
I’m sure there’s droves of people here on TBN auditioning for “most virtuous environmentalist” that would pony up $5,000 extra for the emissions equipment package!

Just think, the auto manufacturers could give the package a really cool line item name like “conscientious citizen package” AND they would put a green tree badge on the fender!

Everybody wins!

 

[mrmikey]

I'd be thrilled to get rid of the stupid auto-stop/start feature and cylinder de-activation......

I believe you can get bypass harnesses for most of the vehicles that have that crap.

 

[Rdrcr]

^^^^
Yep, I installed one on our Bronco. The device simply remembers the last setting at each start rather than resetting itself.

Mike

 

[IXLR8]

I believe you can get bypass harnesses for most of the vehicles that have that crap.

Yes, but it is a one time deal, next time you start the vehicle.... it's back. Unless you can recode the vehicle. My BMW the default was with S/S turned on, I was able to recode it so now the default for S/S is off.

 

[Quaffer]

Does anyone know what this change affects? I have a tractor down due to emission equipment failure and will soon need to decide on repair to factory spec or just delete the emissions system.

 

[bmaverick]

Up to 2009, emissions wasn't too bad. If anyone grew up as a kid in the 70s and 80s you would recall most vehicles didn't have AC and riding in the back of a vehicle with the windows down made you choke to remain somewhat cool in rush hour traffic.

The late 80s and forwards, those old vehicles were running on the newer fuel blends, and the multi-grade oils arrived to be more popular. 10W40 became hard to find and 10W30 became the norm.

Emission canisters, CATs and closed loop burn recover system replaced the air-intake crank case breathers that clogged and made tail-pipes stinky.

Additionally, spark plugs moved from the old school copper core to the improved burn double platinum. Most coil systems converted to a waste spark as well, meaning a second fire on the opposing cylinder would fire to clean up the unburned gasses.

In the classic vintage vehicles, using the cleaner fuel, double platinum plugs, and the synthetic multi-grade oils has helped greatly in reducing emissions. There are fewer on the road today, yet they are not spewing out black fumes anymore.

Emissions dropped like a rock and people could breathe outside during rush hour traffic.

So yeah, it makes sense to roll back the insane 2009 mandates where a balance works for the environment and transportation.

 

[alexpops]

As I understand it, this will impact only "greenhouse gasses" and won't impact "criteria pollutants" ... EGR/DPF/SCR(DEF) won't change unless Congress passes law to reduce the current requirements (permit higher pollution thresholds) since those systems affect NOx and particulates which are criteria pollutants.

CO2, methane & some refrigerant gasses are no longer federally regulated, so stop/start can be deleted and lean tunes designed to reduce CO2 can be richened and shift points can be adjusted for performance as opposed to reducing CO2. AC refrigerants also get impacted, but highly doubtful we get R12 back. The OEMs won't have to track/report ghg emissions, so maybe it reduces limp mode triggers on a few systems if updates become available.

For cars/PUs, it's unlikely the OEMs will offer courtesy reprogramming, but after market cos will probably add to some of their product lines. Range & its clones already offer plug-in S/S & cylinder shutdown work-arounds, so not sure what else we can look forward to absent congressional action on criteria pollutants. Even if the current EPA changes the thresholds, absent congressional action, there's nothing stopping the next EPA from reimposing criteria. Not sure what the process entails to re-adopt the endangerment finding, but presumably, if this EPA/Administration can repeal the finding, the next can re-adopt..

State regulation hasn't changed yet, so expect CA, NY & other states that take their environment direction from there to be less lenient. From what I've seen, Ford & Stellantis are more gladly accepting the change, but GM is waiting for the litigation wave to make the decision for them. Given the market in CA and NY, it's not likely the big three will totally eliminate the tech, so we could be back to the mess we had in the 70's for cars and trucks.

Unless you are a big ag operator, or you live in one of the enviro-**** states, unlikely you will be chased down by anyone for illegal deletes on your tractor, but dealers will probably use that to void any warranties and/or refuse to do service work on that tractor. So either BE or HAVE a good Diesel mechanic if you need to have all work done away from a dealer.

We certainly are living in "interesting" times.

 

[WinterDeere]

Yes, but it is a one time deal, next time you start the vehicle.... it's back. Unless you can recode the vehicle. My BMW the default was with S/S turned on, I was able to recode it so now the default for S/S is off.

The only BMW vehicle we own is a Mini Cooper S, but it has a big toggle switch right next to the start switch, to disable auto-S/S. Hitting one, then the other, is just our way of starting that car.

 

[Hughman]

Found an easy way to disable auto-s/s on my new jeep. Just pull a wire on a pop-up button under the hood. If it thinks the hood is raised, it disables the defect (feature?). No more stalling engine when you stop.

 

[WinterDeere]

Found an easy way to disable auto-s/s on my new jeep. Just pull a wire on a pop-up button under the hood. If it thinks the hood is raised, it disables the defect (feature?). No more stalling engine when you stop.

Now it just beeps warnings at you that the hood is up, all day long.

I've seen so many idiots driving around with their hood latch popped, that I think that's one feature most should't disable. I had to stop twice last summer to get out and close the hood of a random car stopped behind me at a stop light.

One of those people was a single woman, and I think I really frightened the hell out of her, before she realized what I was doing. Might get myself run over or shot, one of these days.

 

[ultrarunner]

Remember when Honda met all emission requirements and did so without a Catalytic Converter with their CVCC?

In engineering it is often possible to make large gains for modest cost… the problem is the cost and durability often suffer chasing the last few percentage points.

California is still testing 1976 and newer vehicles… but it’s getting very hard to find a local shop that is licensed to do the older vehicle testing.

The Hospital standby generators are circa 1995 and the Air District plans to force retirement and is also focused on steam boilers of the same vintage.

 

[JRH02]

EGR/DPF/SCR(DEF) won't change unless Congress passes law to reduce the current requirements

Thanks for chiming in with that. I was wondering how may new diesel pickups and tractors would sell if they would come be available without DEF even for a time.

 

[Hay Dude]

Up to 2009, emissions wasn't too bad. If anyone grew up as a kid in the 70s and 80s you would recall most vehicles didn't have AC and riding in the back of a vehicle with the windows down made you choke to remain somewhat cool in rush hour traffic.

The late 80s and forwards, those old vehicles were running on the newer fuel blends, and the multi-grade oils arrived to be more popular. 10W40 became hard to find and 10W30 became the norm.

Emission canisters, CATs and closed loop burn recover system replaced the air-intake crank case breathers that clogged and made tail-pipes stinky.

Additionally, spark plugs moved from the old school copper core to the improved burn double platinum. Most coil systems converted to a waste spark as well, meaning a second fire on the opposing cylinder would fire to clean up the unburned gasses.

In the classic vintage vehicles, using the cleaner fuel, double platinum plugs, and the synthetic multi-grade oils has helped greatly in reducing emissions. There are fewer on the road today, yet they are not spewing out black fumes anymore.

Emissions dropped like a rock and people could breathe outside during rush hour traffic.

So yeah, it makes sense to roll back the insane 2009 mandates where a balance works for the environment and transportation.

You know, I’m not crazy about the even earlier 2004.5 emission regs, requiring cooled EGRs.

Recirculating exhaust gasses back into an engine?

I’ve had just as much problems with clogged EGR coolers & EGR valves as DPF/DEF issues, but the EGR is connected directly to the engine, whereas the DEF/DPF is indirectly connected to the engine.

 

[ultrarunner]

You know, I’m not crazy about the even earlier 2004.5 emission regs, requiring cooled EGRs.

Recirculating exhaust gasses back into an engine?

Prices for some used tractors would take a hit.

The tree farm L3800 is rock solid and because it doesn’t have the latest emissions the value has held remarkably well.