Engine will not turn over. Where to start?

[Hooked_on_HP]

Without being able to turn the engine over just pulling the valve cover may not show much. Look for rocker arms with alot of clearance. Pulling the rocker arms or shafts would be the best. Put a strait edge across the top of all the valves and see which ones don't come up all the way or come up to far. Those will be the problem.

 

[Cacinok]

will do hooked on hp, good info. thanks.

 

[Dusty]

If you need to replace the engine, look for a local engine re-builder that does lots of engines. They know where to get the parts quickly and economically. Dusty

 

[Cacinok]

good advice dusty. i tracked down a dealer that can readily get the parts and had them give me a quote to rebuild the motor. they said they can do it for $3200 total (parts and labor). the mechanic that i talked to said he thought it was a spun bearing and not a valve.

my question now, is should i spend $3200, which is more than i paid for the tractor, on the tractor, which has other issues, or use the $3200 as a down payment on something newer? hmmm.

 

[3RRL]

good advice dusty. i tracked down a dealer that can readily get the parts and had them give me a quote to rebuild the motor. they said they can do it for $3200 total (parts and labor). the mechanic that i talked to said he thought it was a spun bearing and not a valve.

my question now, is should i spend $3200, which is more than i paid for the tractor, on the tractor, which has other issues, or use the $3200 as a down payment on something newer? hmmm.

I guess you're the only one who can answer that? Personally, I'd be looking at a newer or new tractor. There are plenty in the 35hp range that are pretty reasonable. I'd look at domestic and off shore models for feature comparisons. Your decision, of course.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

I would take it apart to find out for sure what is wrong. We are all just guessing and could be wrong. It could be a inexpensive repair. If you get it apart and find somthing majior wrong then decide what you want to do. The machine shop most likely gave you a price on the high side to cover their butt. They won't know what has to be done untill it is apart.

 

[gemini5362]

I agree with hooked on HP if it is a spun bearing you can drop the oil pan and find out from that easily enough. It has been my experience with cars that before you spin a bearing you can hear it knocking for a while. I dont know if tractors are like that but I would assume that they are. It might be a valve problem. I would definetly take some of the earlier advice and pull the valve cover off and see what is going on with the valves. Of course if you just need an excuse to buy a new tractor that is different then I would go with the idea that it is going to cost more than you paid for the tractor and it is better to buy a new one story.

 

[john_bud]

You need to pull the rocker arm cover and check it out. You probably dropped a valve. The stem may have broken off or the the keeper could have let go. That would mean that part of the valve is in the combustion chamber keeping the engine from turning. (if so, you would be able to rotate the other direction).

If there is no problem there, drop the oil pan. You may have thrown a rod or spun a bearing and welded it to the crank.


If the root cause is the head, you should be able to pull it off yourself and get it rebuilt for only a couple hundred bucks. If it is the lower end of the engine, start parting it out on e-bay. For the 3200 rebuild cost, you can get a decent Ford 841. Or for twice that, you can get a very nice mid 80's to early 90's 45 hp utility.


Think two words, "Money Pit".
jb

 

[Dusty]

Right now, it is only worth the value of iron. If you diagnose the engine and determine the actual problem, even if you decide to sell it, the buyer will know what he is getting into. Right now, no one is going to buy a pig in a poke tractor. If you put $3200 into it, how much more is it going to need to be reliable? Once it is apart, you might as well do the clutch. This is going to add to the parts cost, but not the labor cost. I would hate to see you wind up with a $4000 tractor that you have invested $8000. Spend a few $$ to find out exactly what is the problem and then decide. If you can get it running for short money, do that, and then sell it on the open market, as is. It is worth more running.
Dusty

 

[Cacinok]

john it seems like when there's a job like this there's always a lot of other jobs around the house that pop up and prevent ya from getting to it - frustrating. when i pull the valve cover, if it looks like a valve, then i will probably pull the head and hope that the damage to the piston and/or cylinder wall are minimal and if so have the head redone. also, the engine will not rotate either way. it is stuck.

dusty the $3200 included the clutch package.

when i purchased the tractor, two of the eight gears would not stay engaged, the other six work just fine. the wiring also needs to be redone and the charging system is questionable. lol. so obviously i don't really want to spend much on the tractor. i got a quote to have the transmission fixed and it was almost as much as having the engine rebuilt. i'm definitely not going to do that. i have the following concerns w/ rebuilding, if it needs a full rebuild: in my experience (and this is w/ cars and trucks not sure the same holds true w/ tractors) when you rebuild an engine if you don't address (rebuild) other parts (e.g., transmission), those other parts will fail, especially if they are showing problems, like mine are - no real hard evidence for my theory, just murphy's law. i worry that if i rebuild the engine, then things like injectors, injector pump, etc will start going out (i don't recall whether they are part of the rebuild. i doubt it.)

my thinking is similar to both of yours, in that $3200 is a nice down payment on another tractor. i would like to get one that my wife could drive, she literally couldn't push the clutch pedal down on the long, she would lift out of the seat. there's a 1993 ford 2120 w/ loader and 394 hours for about $11k that i'm going to try to get out and look at.

while i'm writing a book here, let me ask, how many hours on a used machine is too many? really broad question, i know, but any rule of thumb may help.

thanks again for your replies.

 

[gemini5362]

If the engine locks up and it wont turn over that might be too many hours on a used machine some people might say

 

[flusher]

while i'm writing a book here, let me ask, how many hours on a used machine is too many? really broad question, i know, but any rule of thumb may help.

thanks again for your replies.

Check the thread "Buying Used" in the Buying/Pricing/Comparisons forum to get answers/opinions on your hours question.

 

[john_bud]

{snip}
my thinking is similar to both of yours, in that $3200 is a nice down payment on another tractor. i would like to get one that my wife could drive, she literally couldn't push the clutch pedal down on the long, she would lift out of the seat. there's a 1993 ford 2120 w/ loader and 394 hours for about $11k that i'm going to try to get out and look at.

while i'm writing a book here, let me ask, how many hours on a used machine is too many? really broad question, i know, but any rule of thumb may help.

thanks again for your replies.

Cacinok,

That 2120 is a real nice machine and the loader will do well over a ton. With 394 hours on it, it's a good price at 11K.

Hours are subjective. That 2120 is 13 years old and has done only 30 hours a year. We assume that it had good maintenance, but it could have the factory oil in it. That would make it a bad deal! A tractor with 4000 hours may have had maintenance done on schedule by the book and be in great shape. Check the usual maintenance things, grease on the zerks, clean oil, no water in the diff or trans, evidence that the trans and diff plugs have been pulled (can't change oil otherwise), brakes adjusted, tappets quiet, compression good (gas engine is easy, you can specify it on a diesel at a dealers lot if you negotiate it), no leakes, use the FEL to pick the front and check bearings. You know, the normal stuff.

good luck!
jb

 

[Cacinok]

flusher thanks for the reference, i'd done some searching, but not found too much.

john, good info thanks. i'm hoping to get out and look at the ford. oddly though, my wife doesn't think looking at tractors is an enjoyable Christmas time activity.lol. especially since the dealer that has the ford is a couple hours away in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Who makes the engine in that tractor?

 

[Cacinok]

Who makes the engine in that tractor?

i believe it was long, in romania. i'll double check when i get time, which seems to be non existent this time of year.

 

[Cacinok]

Without being able to turn the engine over just pulling the valve cover may not show much. Look for rocker arms with alot of clearance. Pulling the rocker arms or shafts would be the best. Put a strait edge across the top of all the valves and see which ones don't come up all the way or come up to far. Those will be the problem.

i finally had time to get out and pull the valve cover. none of the valves are obviously damaged or absent, at least from what is viewable. also, none of the rocker arms have more clearance than the others, all of the valve springs are in good condition. i didn't pull the rocker arms, however. given the fact the engine will not turn, at all, i'm leaning towards a spun bearing.

 

[Dusty]

If you can pull the pan and take a peek, it might be worth while. If it is a spun bearing, you might get away with cleaning it up and putting in a new bearing. It isn't recommended to do so, but I have put new bearings in without turning the crankshaft in the past and have lucked out, not having a problem. It is called band aid mechanics, but sometimes the quick and easy fix that cost very little will work and get you on your way. At this point, you don't have a lot to loose. The way it is, the tractor is just about worthless, so if you put $100 into a bearing and get it going, that is great. I hope that you get lucky and can get it running again. If not, hopefully some one that is mechanically inclined will buy it from you and you will recoup some of your investment.
Dusty

 

[cp1969]

If you are able to 'band-aid' this engine back together and get it running, PLEASE make the buyer aware of this before he buys it. That is the only decent thing to do.

Hate to see new poster asking about his Locked-up Long, about which he had no idea of it's engine condition prior to buying it.

 

[KICK]

If the engine locks up and it wont turn over that might be too many hours on a used machine some people might say

most likely a part failed, could or could not have anything to do with maintnence.

you can do all the PM's in the world and not prevent a valve from breaking and falling into the piston.

as they say ...... ***** happens.