Engine design affects starting

[tree grower]

This is a very theoretical question, probably aimed at an automotive / engine engineer. Why do JD engines start so well without need of glow plugs, compared to other diesel engines? I have had my 1050 for 8 yrs (Yanmar engine), and even though it sits from December to March without starting, it will start instantly w/o glow plugs. I used a friend's 350 crawler that had not been started for many months, but it only turned over a couple times before starting--no glow plugs. Another friend has a Samsung excavator which had not been started in 8 yrs, but with new batteries he said the starter had barely engaged before it was up and running beautifully. My little Ford 1210 (Shibauru engine) needs glow plugs unless it is hot. My F 350 7.3 idi is the same. I assume the answer pertains to engine combustion chamber design, ie compression ratio, injection pattern, or some related factor. I'm curious as ****.

 

[RalphVa]

Certainly does. Our VW TDI started and sounded virtually like a gasoline engine. Glow periods, even in winter, were only a couple seconds.

The Isuzu diesel engine on the generator starts and sounds like a gasoliine engine except for the built-in glow plug delay. Absolutely no shudder, no clatter ever.

Our 2 Benzes we had had virtually the same type of engine as has been on the 2 JD tractors I've owned, e.g. with chambers off to the side. All started with some initial shudders on cold running and were greatly helped with about 1/2 throttle opening vs. NONE on the VW TDI nor the Isuzu.

Ralph

 

[Egon]

Direct/indirect combustion chambers and compression ratios. Air intake heaters. Battery and starter size. Do not forget oil type and grade along with engine wear.

 

[jonsstihl]

not all diesels use glow plugs, some use intake heaters instead

 

[Industrial Toys]

Our larger 4 cyl JD engine starts down to about -10 with little problem. It does like it better to be plugged in but Glow Plus Hardly matter.

My Diesel Mule engine has no block heater, but has never failed to start immediately with just one glow plug application.

The Kubota D722 Diesel Engine in my Steiner is the worst starting engine I have ever owned. Below freezing it needs to be plugged in and MUST have glow plugs. At minus 15c it will not start without a block heater. Without access to power, you would be screwed. Unfortunatley, Cummins/Onan chose this same engine in my 7.5KW Inverter Quiet Diesel Generator. I think Kubota makes some of the worlds greatest engines but they aren't much good if you can't get it started. I just put in JD Plus 50II 0/40 synthetic oil and it seems to help the D722 spin over a little faster in the cold. First time I ever used synthetic in anything.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Question. The John Deere (non emmissions/no computer) had sat in minus 25c for days and I didn't leave it plugged in long enough.

Trying to start it, it was cranking quickly, half running. Let off on the starter and it would run for ten seconds and die. But not really running. Did that again and all of a sudden she just took off.

Is that bad for anything? The dealer told us when we bought it, that when starting it, you can damage the engine when it's surging at a low idle, rather than increase idle and let it run more smoothly. Maybe something about the rings.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Careful, you guys that have good starting diesels are just "bragging", according to some on this site! lol

My loader tractor always starts, without plugging it in or using the glow plug, even below zero F.

It can be for many reasons, but the biggest reason, compared to the smaller tractors of today is, the smaller tractors of today have pre-chambers, they are not direct injected. The fuel is shot onto the pre-chamber and has to be warmed up for a cold start, I have those too, and I HATE them!

Years ago, I had a Kubota 2850, it was direct injected and started very easy, no glow plugs needed, even in the cold. I can't say the same for any indirect injected Kubota I've owned since!! Emissions, is why they went to pre-chamber diesels...

Other things that affect starting is, how fast it turns over when starting, what the fuel pressure is, (injection pump) and how much compression the diesel has, BUT every non-pre-chamber diesel I own, or have ever owned, has started better than the pre-chamber diesels of today. I'm talking about modern diesels here as many of the OLD diesels were hard starters, mostly because they had such low fuel pressures and lower compression...

SR

 

[CobyRupert]

Good info Sawyer Rob. I’ve never heard about pre-combustion chambers. Good day when you learn something new.

My new hobby this winter is watching videos of “cold starts”. There’s Facebook pages devoted to them. (Good one is Cold Start Quebec Diesel Only, I had to fill out membership in French. Thank you Google translator.) YouTube has a good collection too. Some are pretty funny with references to “glow plugs in a can” or “Cosby in a can”. (I haven’t figured out why Cosby is a nickname for ether? Anybody know?)
But the videos are excellent dramas. Better than most movies. Will it start? There’s the agony of the motor turning over. Hope as 1 cylinder sputters. Setbacks as it quits. Redemption and cheering as a 2nd cylinder catches. Good stuff!

Edit: Ohh...is it because Bill Cosby drugs his dates...the ole’ ether on a handkerchief trick? So starting fluid is “Bill Cosby in a can”? That’s so bad!

 

[beenthere]

Glad my '98 Yanmar diesel in the JD 4300 is a great starting engine. Seldom use the pre-heat, but do on occasion. Sits in an unheated shed. -10° F in there the other morning, and did smoke a fair amount. No plug for heat, and do not use a battery aid. Appreciate how quick it fires and runs.

 

[fried1765]

Careful, you guys that have good starting diesels are just "bragging", according to some on this site! lol

My loader tractor always starts, without plugging it in or using the glow plug, even below zero F.

It can be for many reasons, but the biggest reason, compared to the smaller tractors of today is, the smaller tractors of today have pre-chambers, they are not direct injected. The fuel is shot onto the pre-chamber and has to be warmed up for a cold start, I have those too, and I HATE them!

Years ago, I had a Kubota 2850, it was direct injected and started very easy, no glow plugs needed, even in the cold. I can't say the same for any indirect injected Kubota I've owned since!! Emissions, is why they went to pre-chamber diesels...

Other things that affect starting is, how fast it turns over when starting, what the fuel pressure is, (injection pump) and how much compression the diesel has, BUT every non-pre-chamber diesel I own, or have ever owned, has started better than the pre-chamber diesels of today. I'm talking about modern diesels here as many of the OLD diesels were hard starters, mostly because they had such low fuel pressures and lower compression...

SR

Don't know what sort of chambers my little 32 Hp Shibaura (Ford 1920) has, but it starts easily without glow plugs, down to 32F, and I never have tried below that.