Grapple Electric over Hydraulic Kits

[swmich42]

Piston, I appreciate the information you have assembled on this site. Very informative. I too feel as though a grapple for my 2000 JD 4700, with 400CX would greatly speed the process of my project. (buildng seawall with large boulders, then with rock/rip-rap behind these larger boulders, and eventually feathering into the lawn) Right now, I planned to use either my forks, and or the bucket. (both from EverythingAttachment's)

I wanted opinions on using the FEL with grapple, and the speed it would afford to this type of job, as opposed to the forks/bucket method. The size of the rocks are 18"-36" boulders in front, with 3"-12" sized rocks (rip/rap) to fill behind the larger boulders.

I also was interested in the difference between the WR Long vs Everything Attachment's Electric over Hydraulic kits', for a grapple, if there is anyone with experience with both.

Given the installation, (I prefer to mount the valve body with a bracket, instead of welding it in place) is there any reason to consider using hardlines, up to the QC point, at the very front of the loader? {instead of the flexible hydraulic hoses sold (included) with these kits} (between the valve body, and where the grapple would attach to hydraulics) (longer service life, less chaffing, etc)

 

[swmich42]

Maybe I need to simplify my request for a reply:

Interested in the difference between the WR Long vs Everything Attachment's Electric over Hydraulic kits', for a grapple, if there is anyone with experience with both.

 

[WHW2821]

I was under the impression that they are one in the same. I just installed the WR long 3rd function kit on my JD990 and it was not bad at all. I made sure I wrapped all of the hose rub points with the poly split wrap to ensure I wont end up with a busted line down the road. On the lines to the loader I used the cloth style sock to protect and keep the the lines together. I don't anticipate any issues for a long time due to the extra care I took in protecting everything, one of the advantages of doing it yourself!

Oh and going through a local dealer was a good bit cheaper than using everything attachments, actually my dealer would have installed the kit with tax and it would have been cheaper!

Good luck!

 

[Kioti Tom]

The electric over hydro kits. . They are the same kit. I ordered mine from ETA and it was a WR Long kit. Long supplies ETA. I like mine. Just make sure you stock up on the steel fittings you need. hoses come with the kit. You also need to get the QD fittings to fit your tractor and the disconnects. My hoses are 3/8 hoses. You will need various 3/8 NPT and 3/8 JIC fittings. The mounting bracket For my Kioti was a bolt on to the loader frame for my installation.

 

[Kioti Tom]

Here are some photos. This is on a Kioti DS3510. It is mounted outside the loader mount due to space consideration. Long got drawings from Kioti before making mounting attachments. That is why it took a few extra days to get it out to me..
The galvanized fittings have been replaced with steel hyd. fittings for those who wonder..They were temporary..Plus they were tested on a hyd test bench to 3800 psi. That is more than it would get to in use...I was curious after it was mentioned on my installation thread.

 

[Ductape]

Can you post a link to the two you are talking about? I was looking at them on their site, and (what I was looking at) the WR Long kit was true third function, and the EA kit was a diverter using your curl function to run a grapple , etc. Just want to make sure we are on the same page here.

 

[J_J]

3rd function auxilliary hydraulic kits for all brands of tractors and loaders! purchase online, free shipping within 1,000 miles!!

http://www.wrlonginc.com/Hyd DO3B Flow Diagram.pdf

A 3rd function can go anywhere in the series path. Will take high pressure. Between the FEL and the 3pt

The diverter/selector valve goes in the FEL curl circuit.

Surplus Center - 12 VDC 13.2 GPM SAE 8 DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-7852.pdf

I have seen the 3rd function valves kits at around $395.

http://stores.daltonhydraulic.com/-strse-662/Solenoid-Directional-Control-Valve,/Detail.bok

 

[Piston]

Given the installation, (I prefer to mount the valve body with a bracket, instead of welding it in place) is there any reason to consider using hardlines, up to the QC point, at the very front of the loader? {instead of the flexible hydraulic hoses sold (included) with these kits} (between the valve body, and where the grapple would attach to hydraulics) (longer service life, less chaffing, etc)

I don't have any experience with the EA 3rd function, and I don't know if anyone on here has actually used both of them to compare. If the EA is in fact the same as the WR Long of course, then I guess I do have experience with them both :laughing:

I can see a benefit to mounting hard lines instead of the flexible lines if you can get them. I imagine they would last much longer if you will be doing a lot of brush work, however, I've done a lot of brush work and I haven't had any issue with the hoses breaking or having any interference with it at all. I think the most likely lines to be in harms way are the ones going from the FEL frame to the actual grapple, and those ones have to be flexible.

I think you could get a lot of work done with your grapple as long as you have the additional tines welded in, then you could pick up any rocks over 4.5" (well, in my case anyways)

 

[J_J]

If you use the 3rd function kit for a grapple, you will have no feather function.

The grapple will work fast and at full power all the time. You could however reduce the engine rpm for lower hyd flow. Maybe install a flow control valve.

The diverter/selector will allow feather using the curl lever.

 

[Piston]

J.J. Brings up a good point.

I have never felt the need to feather my grapple on anything I've picked up, however, if you may need to, the 3rd function won't allow it as he pointed out.

I want to mention something about my 3rd function valve. On some tractors it won't actually allow you to use all three functions at once, as it should. I don't know why my tractor won't, but it won't. So what I'm saying is, I cant use curl, lift, and close grapple at once. Everything is hooked up correctly and I've spoken with Nelson about this (for a long time, and I was very happy with how much he looked into it for me) however for some reason it just doesn't do the true third function.

My point is, you may be better off getting the cheaper selector switch, since for me, I basically have the identical functions as a selector since I can't use the 3 at the same time anyways. I think I either started a thread on this or had some PM's back and forth with people about it. I could dig it up if anyone is interested. I've verified that my installation was correct, but just something to think about.

Has anyone else run into this?

 

[swmich42]

Piston, I appreciate the information you have assembled on this site. Very informative. I too feel as though a grapple for my 2000 JD 4700, with 400CX would greatly speed the process of my project. (buildng seawall with large boulders, then with rock/rip-rap behind these larger boulders, and eventually feathering into the lawn) Right now, I planned to use either my forks, and or the bucket. (both from EverythingAttachment's)

I wanted opinions on using the FEL with grapple, and the speed it would afford to this type of job, as opposed to the forks/bucket method. The size of the rocks are 18"-36" boulders in front, with 3"-12" sized rocks (rip/rap) to fill behind the larger boulders.

I also was interested in the difference between the WR Long vs Everything Attachment's Electric over Hydraulic kits', for a grapple, if there is anyone with experience with both.

Given the installation, (I prefer to mount the valve body with a bracket, instead of welding it in place) is there any reason to consider using hardlines, up to the QC point, at the very front of the loader? {instead of the flexible hydraulic hoses sold (included) with these kits} (between the valve body, and where the grapple would attach to hydraulics) (longer service life, less chaffing, etc)

I have attached a picture of the project I intend to create. The challenge, and advice I was seeking, was to identify best method to get these boulders down a 20% slope, and approx. 100' from where the truck will be able to deliver them.

 

[brin]

Here is what I am considering since I need a grapple...With this grapple you drop you bucket, no new hydraulics needed it installs right over your loader arms and to the cylinders ...no hoses..nothing and the Model 4000 I am considering is $1,285...which is cheap when compared to other options in grapples and all the labor .plus using this you lose the bucket weight and get more lifting capacity.Front-End Loaders by Westendorf: Front-End Loaders by Westendorf: loader for tractor, shade canopy, wagons, manure & landscaping equipment.

 

[schoolsout]

J.J. Brings up a good point.

I have never felt the need to feather my grapple on anything I've picked up, however, if you may need to, the 3rd function won't allow it as he pointed out.

I want to mention something about my 3rd function valve. On some tractors it won't actually allow you to use all three functions at once, as it should. I don't know why my tractor won't, but it won't. So what I'm saying is, I cant use curl, lift, and close grapple at once. Everything is hooked up correctly and I've spoken with Nelson about this (for a long time, and I was very happy with how much he looked into it for me) however for some reason it just doesn't do the true third function.

My point is, you may be better off getting the cheaper selector switch, since for me, I basically have the identical functions as a selector since I can't use the 3 at the same time anyways. I think I either started a thread on this or had some PM's back and forth with people about it. I could dig it up if anyone is interested. I've verified that my installation was correct, but just something to think about.

Has anyone else run into this?

We have the WR Long and it does the same as yours. Can't raise/lower/curl while operating 4n1 bucket. Hasn't been a problem yet, but it would be nice to be able to do it as I catch myself trying from time to time.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

If anyone is interested, I am now selling an electric diverter kit. It has everything except the hoses and quick connects. In other words the diverter, all electrical and momentary button switch, 12 fittings, 6 straight adapters & 6-90s (only 6 required)to get connected to the diverter itself with std off the shelf hoses. $335 + shipping. :thumbsup:

 

[Waltert]

I have a grapple on my loader bucket I use all the time to move and place boulders, it works great. I made the grapple myself for about $300 clams, I also have a Versatech grapple root rake which works better for digging/rolling boulder out of th e ground, I got the versatech for $1100. I have a Kubota L4400, 2012 MX5100 will be here next week I am trading my 4400 on.

 

[J_J]

Piston, maybe I can answer the question why you can not use the 3rd functin at the same time for grapple work.

If the FEL valve is first valve in series, and you max out the cyl, the 3rd function will get no fluid.

If you feather the FEL valve then you can use what is left over from the FEL valve.

If your tractor had 10 GPM, and

If you added a needle valve in the curl and lift circuit and adjusted for 5 GPM, then the 3rd function would also get 5 GPM at the same time you were using the curl or lift. If you were not using any FEL hyd, the 3rd function would get 10 GPM flow.

Even with the diverter/selector valve, it is either curl or grapple.

http://www.wrlonginc.com/Hyd DO3B Flow Diagram.pdf