Educate me

[dstig1]

I'll echo what others said on how useful a class can be. Just make sure it is hands on and not just a lecture class. I rather doubt any welding class would be book only, but you don't want to find out too late... When you see the fee and then look back at how much you used in rods, wire, gas, steel, etc you will find that you probably saved money vs buying all that stuff to practice on yourself. Plus you got a teacher to guide you. They are very often a great deal for the money and you get exposed to a lot more methods and machines than you would otherwise.

 

[California]

Sadly, my only welding 'experience' is running and fetching for welders at my dad's shop when I was a lad. I know you cannot look directly at it without eye protection, and not much else.

I am wondering if it is worth learning a bit about welding (thinking a community college class or 2) so I can someone minor things for myself. In my head, I am thinking I may need to attach hook(s) to my bucket; d-rings or similar to the trailer.

What I would like to know from the community is two-fold. 1) what other things would I likely need to use welding for in my small retirement operation? 2) Do you think it is worth my time to learn at this point?

Thinking some more about what you are asking: those D-rings for the trailer should be done by a pro welding shop because that's a critical safety application. As Eddie said. You could tack them in place first to reduce a little bit of billable time. That's not a suitable first project for an amateur.

Loader hooks, not so critical and those should be easy to over-build. Practice on scrap until you can do a clean job.

Other stuff - there are lots of farm projects that become possible when you can weld.

My opinion: If you don't take classes then I think its reasonable to start with a cheap stick or FC welder to get some experience. Later you'll have a better idea of what you need, when you are ready to spend 5~10x as much for quality gear that you'll keep for years.

 

[ovrszd]

This is a personal issue. Personal as in, none of us know your ability to self teach. If you are easily learned, Google it. If not, a vocational class is needed.

 

[GeneV]

This is a personal issue. Personal as in, none of us know your ability to self teach. If you are easily learned, Google it. If not, a vocational class is needed.

That's a good point.

 

[etpm]

I learned how to gas weld when I was 14. I am now 66. I still gas weld stuff now and then. In the early 80s I decided to take a welding class at night just for fun. I wanted to learn how to arc weld. After passing the stick welding tests I moved on to TIG. Virtually all of my welding since learning how to TIG weld has been TIG until about 20 years ago when I bought a small Lincoln MIG welder. A few years after I bought that great little machine I took a 1 day MIG welding class. Which really helped my MIG welding and opened my eyes to how much a MIG welder can do. I have never regretted taking the welding classes. Anyway, I think you should take a class just so that you can try out the different welding processes. As a bonus you will probably find out that welding is fun. Especially when an instructor guides you so that you have success quickly. A good instructor is great. I know, folks will say you may not get a good instructor, they were self taught, and so on. But really, most instructors are good, that's why they have the job. And the place you go to learn welding will probably have all types of welding machines available for you to try. You may decide that stick is good enough for you. Or that MIG is what you want to do. Or that the huge flexibility of TIG really tickles your fancy. In the class you should be able to see good welds in all the processes. Gas included. You should be able to watch close at hand good welding being done. Most everybody these days who is beginning welding chooses wirefeed welding, which includes fluxcore and MIG welding. No wonder, it is an easy process to learn. Not as flexible as stick or TIG, but most folks don't need that flexibility. My opinion is that you should most definitely take a class and learn how to weld. Once you have this skill you will find all sorts of stuff to weld. Like any skill it takes practice, but the practice is fun. The satisfaction of sticking a couple pieces of metal together is really nice. At the end of the day remember that welding is fun. Just plain fun.
Eric

 

[California]

And nobody has mentioned yet: Watch Craigslist, Facebook, etc for quality used gear.

 

[rScotty]

I learned how to gas weld when I was 14. I am now 66. I still gas weld stuff now and then. In the early 80s I decided to take a welding class at night just for fun. I wanted to learn how to arc weld. After passing the stick welding tests I moved on to TIG. Virtually all of my welding since learning how to TIG weld has been TIG until about 20 years ago when I bought a small Lincoln MIG welder. A few years after I bought that great little machine I took a 1 day MIG welding class. Which really helped my MIG welding and opened my eyes to how much a MIG welder can do. I have never regretted taking the welding classes. Anyway, I think you should take a class just so that you can try out the different welding processes. As a bonus you will probably find out that welding is fun. Especially when an instructor guides you so that you have success quickly. A good instructor is great. I know, folks will say you may not get a good instructor, they were self taught, and so on. But really, most instructors are good, that's why they have the job. And the place you go to learn welding will probably have all types of welding machines available for you to try. You may decide that stick is good enough for you. Or that MIG is what you want to do. Or that the huge flexibility of TIG really tickles your fancy. In the class you should be able to see good welds in all the processes. Gas included. You should be able to watch close at hand good welding being done. Most everybody these days who is beginning welding chooses wirefeed welding, which includes fluxcore and MIG welding. No wonder, it is an easy process to learn. Not as flexible as stick or TIG, but most folks don't need that flexibility. My opinion is that you should most definitely take a class and learn how to weld. Once you have this skill you will find all sorts of stuff to weld. Like any skill it takes practice, but the practice is fun. The satisfaction of sticking a couple pieces of metal together is really nice. At the end of the day remember that welding is fun. Just plain fun.
Eric

I've welded things for 50 years. Very good with gas, and passable with arc, tig, & mig. All self taught, but truth is I'm not a particularly good teacher - even to myself. I bet I could learn a lot of new things by taking some classes. Thanks for the idea.
rScotty

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

Sadly, my only welding 'experience' is running and fetching for welders at my dad's shop when I was a lad. I know you cannot look directly at it without eye protection, and not much else.

I am wondering if it is worth learning a bit about welding (thinking a community college class or 2) so I can someone minor things for myself. In my head, I am thinking I may need to attach hook(s) to my bucket; d-rings or similar to the trailer.

What I would like to know from the community is two-fold. 1) what other things would I likely need to use welding for in my small retirement operation? 2) Do you think it is worth my time to learn at this point?

Thanks,

T

I recommend that you learn at least enough, to understand what and how needs to be done. I have a small Hobart wire feed, and can sort of make a decent bead. But a lot of what i learned at the outreach classes at the high school, was how to get things ready to weld.

If I have a non critical thing that needs welding I’ll do it myself.

If I need something critical welded, I do the preparations, then take it to the welding shop, and pay to have a certified welder make the welds.

Doing all of the fit up, beveling edges of things to thick to do in a single pass, getting the metal clean, and ready for a weld, saves me a bunch of money. if I don’t get it prepped, I have to pay teh shop rate for the welder to do it. If I spend a couple of hours, fitting up, and then tack things into place. I pay only for the welder to do the welding. And, frequently I get jumped to the front of the line. When I showed up needing four fillets done on the skid Steer Quick Attach, off my loader. The fact that it was prepped an ready to go, and I was willing to let him weld it on the tailgate of the truck, and I helped move it around, I got charged for fifteen minutes of welder time, and not several hours, with a three day wait.

 

[Torvy]

Thanks, all. I really appreciate the feedback. If I knew more people in the area in which we are retiring, I would definitely go the route of having an expert show me. As a teacher, I am painfully aware of the differences in learning styles and how that affects classroom learning. If I am adding to prior knowledge, reading on a subject can help. In this case, I am like a media member trying to understand firearms. . My nearest neighbor has some sort of metalworking business and once we are out there regularly, I hope I can learn from him. I think I will at least take one class, maybe two to at least give myself an understanding of the terminology and basic techniques. From there, I will play it by ear. Videos can also help...one reason I am putting a big screen TV in my shop.

I would appreciate a few more specifics on the types of repairs and minor improvements y'all do with welding (thanks for pointing out about D-rings, it makes logical sense). I doubt I will ever be that guy who makes his own trailer, but I could definitely see myself doing smaller projects that don't involve trusting my work for health/safety.

Also, is cutting done with the same processes and equipment, or is that a separate, but associated process? I can imagine needing to use that skill as well.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Also, is cutting done with the same processes and equipment, or is that a separate, but associated process? I can imagine needing to use that skill as well.

For cutting you have 3 choices, grinder with cutting disk/chop saw, oxygen/acetylene cutting torch or Plasma cutter... each have their advantage and disadvantage... Plasma cutter is the fastest and produce a fairly clean cut with minimum skills required, but you are limited in steel thickness and limited to the shop since you need electricity to operate it. Oxygen/acetylene cutting torch you can cut a wide range of thickness (pretty much no limit), but there is a direct correlation between skills and cleaning required (grinding the cutting edge) more the skills less the cleaning. They are completely independent you can bring the tanks in the field and cut anything made of steel. Cutting torch are versatile, they can be used for bronze welding, heating up material to unseize parts, shaping material to the desired shape and much more ... Then there is a grinder with a cutting disk, or a chop saw, that's a nice to have and could be the fastest option for some tasks, you are limited in still thickness or width. It produces a clean cut but mostly uses for new steel so for new steel a chop saw is the way to go but you are limited for most repair project you would use both cutting torch and chop saw... I personally think the best combo is cutting torch and a chop saw.

 

[big bubba]

I went to YouTube college for welding classes.

good idea, only drawback is that one doesn't get personal feedback for individual work. virtual is great but sometimes has its limits. good luck to the OP on his schooling.

 

[old and tired]

...I would appreciate a few more specifics on the types of repairs and minor improvements y'all do with welding...

For me, buying cheap used implements, means welding up a hole in the drum of a spike aerator that I didn't see when I bought it. A $50, 5' rear blade, the blade broke off. Had to reattach it (after grinding off the crappy weld from the other owner!!).

My finishing mower, had a couple things that needed to straighten and welded. I welded up a carryall frame from scratch. Nice easy project to do. Same as Trailer movers for the 3 point hitch and I made one for the FEL (clamp on ball).

Welded up debris forks for the FEL (before I got a grapple). Welded a right side step and welded on a heavy duty top link bracket... and so on and so forth....

Once you are using implements, when you break it, you can repair it!! I learned by just doing it... my welds are best described as Gorilla welds; not pretty to look at, but they hold.

 

[etpm]

Thanks, all. I really appreciate the feedback. If I knew more people in the area in which we are retiring, I would definitely go the route of having an expert show me. As a teacher, I am painfully aware of the differences in learning styles and how that affects classroom learning. If I am adding to prior knowledge, reading on a subject can help. In this case, I am like a media member trying to understand firearms. . My nearest neighbor has some sort of metalworking business and once we are out there regularly, I hope I can learn from him. I think I will at least take one class, maybe two to at least give myself an understanding of the terminology and basic techniques. From there, I will play it by ear. Videos can also help...one reason I am putting a big screen TV in my shop.

I would appreciate a few more specifics on the types of repairs and minor improvements y'all do with welding (thanks for pointing out about D-rings, it makes logical sense). I doubt I will ever be that guy who makes his own trailer, but I could definitely see myself doing smaller projects that don't involve trusting my work for health/safety.

Also, is cutting done with the same processes and equipment, or is that a separate, but associated process? I can imagine needing to use that skill as well.

The most versatile tool for cutting metal is a plasma cutter because it will cut any metal. Plasma can also be used to cut thick rubber, which is a pain to cut. Lay a piece of sheet metal on top of the rubber and use it for the conductive part. The plasma will cut through at least 1 inch thick rubber. I have done this and it stinks. Fast though. Oxy/fuel is really only good for cutting non-stainless steels. You can cut stainless by laying mild steel on top of the stainless. The cut will be rough though. For mechanical cutting there are various types of saws and thin abrasive discs. I use all of the previously mentioned methods.
Eric

 

[GeneV]

Thanks, all. I really appreciate the feedback. If I knew more people in the area in which we are retiring, I would definitely go the route of having an expert show me. As a teacher, I am painfully aware of the differences in learning styles and how that affects classroom learning. If I am adding to prior knowledge, reading on a subject can help. In this case, I am like a media member trying to understand firearms. . My nearest neighbor has some sort of metalworking business and once we are out there regularly, I hope I can learn from him. I think I will at least take one class, maybe two to at least give myself an understanding of the terminology and basic techniques. From there, I will play it by ear. Videos can also help...one reason I am putting a big screen TV in my shop.

I would appreciate a few more specifics on the types of repairs and minor improvements y'all do with welding (thanks for pointing out about D-rings, it makes logical sense). I doubt I will ever be that guy who makes his own trailer, but I could definitely see myself doing smaller projects that don't involve trusting my work for health/safety.

Also, is cutting done with the same processes and equipment, or is that a separate, but associated process? I can imagine needing to use that skill as well.

Torvy, based on your questions in this thread, I'd say your plan is an excellent idea. Choosing welding methods, metal cutting and prep and all that stuff...none of it is too complicated, but it does require knowing the basics of it. Welding 101 class would clarify most of it in one spot w/o you having to do the legwork researching it on your own. Me personally, I become obsessive when I get interested in something, and then I go down the rabbit hole on Youtube and message boards, but that's definitely not for everyone.

In regards to being able to weld, I equate it to driving. Once you get the controls and basic turning, stopping, etc, it's not all that hard to drive. But becoming a good driver, that's a different story...takes lots of practice, just time put in it, experience driving under different road conditions, and so forth. But then there's also a middle ground, where you could get from point A to B, so long as the traffic is light and road conditions are good.

So I'd say that's about the same with welding, and that's where I'm at with it. I've been welding only a few years, and also because I don't do it often enough, each new welding project means me grinding out some fubar welds and redoing them. But with that said, I get by well enough for my purposes. Like you ask what some of us do, well I welded a snowplow on a ssqi plate to use with my tractor, welded up debris forks to use with my loader bucket, welded additional teeth on my backhoe thumb, and then a bunch of little repairs here and there.

Sometimes I feel like I'm spamming this board with my Youtube vids, so I don't want to do too much of that. But, if you want to see some of these projects a total hack like me did, here's my channel for that: https://www.youtube.com/@pondacres/videos

 

[GeneV]

good idea, only drawback is that one doesn't get personal feedback for individual work. virtual is great but sometimes has its limits. good luck to the OP on his schooling.

Oh yeh man, I don't advocate it, just saying how I do my thing.

 

[big bubba]

Oh yeh man, I don't advocate it, just saying how I do my thing.

we're fortunate today w/so many sources of info, i use utube for many how to projects. agree

 

[California]

... Also, is cutting done with the same processes and equipment, or is that a separate, but associated process?

One more option for cutting metal, the Band Saw. I can make more precise and faster cuts with my portable band saw than I can with abrasive disc.This is what I reach for first to cut something. (Of course due to its geometry, it is limited where it will fit).

And the larger benchtop or floor-mount band saw is a primary production tool.

 

[Robfnk]

If you get a good instructor it is well worth it. If nothing else you will learn about the different types of welders and what would work best for you. When it comes to welding it's practice, practice & practice. Some scrap metal to practice on can be your best friend.

 

[pecans]

Sadly, my only welding 'experience' is running and fetching for welders at my dad's shop when I was a lad. I know you cannot look directly at it without eye protection, and not much else.

I am wondering if it is worth learning a bit about welding (thinking a community college class or 2) so I can someone minor things for myself. In my head, I am thinking I may need to attach hook(s) to my bucket; d-rings or similar to the trailer.

What I would like to know from the community is two-fold. 1) what other things would I likely need to use welding for in my small retirement operation? 2) Do you think it is worth my time to learn at this point?

Thanks,

T

Torvy, Looks like I live near you. I worked for the number two metal buyer in the USA. We made heavy duty items. There is a lot that can be learned about welding that you will not find on the web or through casual conversation. At some point you are going to need to make a weld that your life will depend on. Agriculture equipment has things that move with speed that can grab you. And slow things with force that can crush you. I know of many who have died or been mutilated. An insufficient weld made with the wrong material, the wrong heat, the wrong cool down or with flux or gas problems will break when you do no need it to and may fly off or drop off and hurt a grand child or yourself. This is not overly melodramatic. I would suggest that you take a quality class. I have a wire welder - it can use coated wire or gas - I use stainless steel wire coated. It can sit longer without rusting up. I know my limits. If you do not weld regularly, what you need at any point in time, you have more limits. Past the limits of my machine or current competence, I set up the task (a class will teach you this) and then get a certified welder to do the weld. This is the professional approach. Your results will a lifetime of progressive accomplishment.

 

[Torvy]

At some point you are going to need to make a weld that your life will depend on. Agriculture equipment has things that move with speed that can grab you. And slow things with force that can crush you. I know of many who have died or been mutilated. An insufficient weld made with the wrong material, the wrong heat, the wrong cool down or with flux or gas problems will break when you do no need it to and may fly off or drop off and hurt a grand child or yourself. This is not overly melodramatic.

Thanks. This part, I completely understand. I didn't grow up on a farm, but I grew up in an agricultural family in an agricultural community (nearest town > 10k was 45 miles away; 100k was 2+ hours away). My mom is one of 8. Her siblings families in order: pig farmers, nurse/teacher, dairy farmers, IH dealer, IH dealer (dad, after retiring from USAF), cattle ranchers, IH dealer/small cattle operation, psychiatrist. Her parents had a diverse farming operation with hay, crops (corn, wheat, millet, flax and oats), beef, chickens, dairy. I didn't learn as much as I wish I had, but a healthy respect for the dangers of farm life were ingrained in me. I spent a lot of time 'helping' do chores on the farms and ranch (1000+ head of cattle in the Black Hills).

This is precisely why I seek out advice. I've seen the end result of people who were too casual with safety or who knew better than the design engineers what a piece of equipment could do. Missing limbs and untimely funerals were, sadly, not uncommon.

We had them put in a 220 in the shop, just in case. We have a scrap metal place a few miles down the road. Hopefully, once I learn enough, I can get some practice materials. I have no illusions about being a pro, but handling my own tasks when possible is how I was raised. I will probably start off making simple hooks I can use to hang tools on in the shop (even though I could probably buy them cheaper).

I truly appreciate all of the advice. Keep it coming.