eBay/Craigslist EBAY

[buppy69]

There is a dealer in Asheville, NC advertising factory rebuilt grey market tractors and in some cases grossly exagerating the hp ratings. I don't want anyone to think it's me.

Eugene

 

[Anonymous Poster]

The ones I've seen call a 1100 14 hp, and a 1500 18 hp. The same individual has listed the same tractors several times (unless they have duplicate models and used the same picture). I emailed the seller and they were rebuilt in vietnam.

I thought engine hp was about 20% higher than the pto power so from the ones that I've seen, the estimates are about right.

Maybe I am missing the ones you are looking at.

 

[buppy69]

I saw an 1800 Mitsubishi with 28 HP!

Eugene

 

[Tractors4u]

His current hp ratings seem to be on the mark but they do claim factory reconditioning on every tractor they list.

 

[diggerjim]

Eugene
It is my understanding that the first two numbers in the grey market YANAMR tractors are the "kilowatt rating" of the tractor. Kilowatt X 1.3 something if memory serves gives the H.P. I'm sure the JAPAN manufacurers don't use the H.P. rating system. PTO H.P. would be (more/less?) than drawbar. I have seen american tractors listed that had more PTO H.P. than drawbar H.P.

Just to be contrary /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif, consider that the pto operates more or less directly off the engine output. Drawbar H.P. turns all the gears in the transmission and the tires. Traction would seem to play a role on drawbar H.P. output. I guess an "ideal" situation would be needed for the test.

My YM2220D seems to outperform my IH B414 (50pto) in some instances. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif So I guess all this means I'm not sure the dealer is misrepresenting the H.P. rating, I think H.P. is a "grey area" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif on grey market tractors. Sorry for rambling.

Jim

 

[buppy69]

The HP rating I saw may have been a misprint. My point was there are no "Factory Rebuilt" Yanmars.

Eugene

 

[Anonymous Poster]

What constitutes a factory? We think of "factory rebuilt" meaning the original manufacturing company factory. But technically a 2 or 3 man enterprise that does nothing but rebuild could meet the definition of a "factory."

I know that is not what comes to mind when we think of "factory rebuilt" though.

I do think that the intent to deceive is probably there.
/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
<font color="blue"> Gary </font>

 

[RJB]

I think based on the number of reconditioned tractors advertised and being sold, it would have to be a factory operation. I don't think I have seen any advertised reconditioned by (Yanmar). In the area I live there are several operations for reconditioning older ford tractors (9N,8N,600.800) and these tractors bring the top money at auction. Some of the grey market dealers change fluids, repaint and call that reconditioned. Some go a little farther and replace ring,bearings and needed parts. I guess it pays to find out what reconditioning has been done. Just some thoughts.

Rick /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[DaveNH]

Did you see the one still on a ship? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<font color="blue"> The approx. ETA is Feb. 29th, 2003. </font>

 

[Anonymous Poster]

That would be a day too late I fear. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

<font color="blue"> Gary </font>

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Of course one has to trust what the dealer or individual says was done. Once repainted and cleaned up, one can not tell the good from the bad. If the labor is cheap and good honest managers are available, anything that is structurally sound is rebuildable. On the other hand, most tractors of this age if they had any maintenance don't need a rebuild. Therefore the need to be rebuilt implies bad maintenance that caused problems that needed a rebuild.

A factory in a foreign country (which is likely vietnam) provides little guarantee (and any that is provided is probably unenforcable). Who you gonna call? The dealer--they will say call the "factory".

This doesn't mean there aren't people with good experiences with rebuilt tractors. And it doesn't mean that there aren't horror stories either. The question is what are the percentages? Is there any way to know?

For a tractor to be worth transporting to vietnam, rebuilding with cheap labor (without the cheap labor it would have been done in Japan or the US) then transported again to the US, there has to be profit. As I said in a previous thread, there has to be value left in the drive train for it to be worth rebuilding. If not, the parts if the rebuild was done well, would cost more than the tractor is worth plus the two trips the tractor took.

I understand that used tractors have less value in Japan than the US or elsewhere (due to the subsidy to farmers for new tractors). On the other hand, for a tractor to be worth transporting it must have value left in it (i.e. the drive train). If not, one must at least appear to fix that problem and therein lies the problem. If the tractor is in reasonable condition, it doesn't go to vietnam for a rebuild, it comes directly to a dealer who does the minor stuff, changes the fluids, cleans it and sells it. If its a little worse, he paints it. Finally, if it is in really bad shape, it gets transported elsewhere for work and parts from other tractors to make it appear (whether truly or not) to be in good shape.

Buyer beware of the used car with a new paint job.

 

[JeffRey30747]

As for the issue on the cost of parts for these tractors, that assumes that new parts would be used in such a rebuild. I think that it is probably more likely that they would be "frankenstein" units that are cobbled together from a number of units with significant problems. However, this doesn't necessarily imply that such a unit would be less reliable than any other unit. If done right with good used parts, a rebuild could still be a better deal than any given unit sourced from a private party. Used is used and you are always going to be taking a little more of a chance than a warranted new unit.

 

[EFC]

Digger Jim, PTO is rated in HP not KW (at least on the greys). 1 hp is equal to 746 watts. Since Torque is the work performed and hp is the rate at which it is performed hp is not a good way to determine power. Drawbar hp would change based on gear ratio but if you decided that the test would be conducted on a 1:1 gear ratio then many factors (weight, tire diameter, gear friction, rotational mass) would have an effect. I have a dealer 50 miles from me and everything he sells is 30hp. YM1500, ym2210...it doesn’t matter he has a formula that says everything is more powerful than it is. Every time I look at eBay there are 29hp Ym2000's or the like for sale. I always send them an email and I get back the same canned response "that is what my importer told me". Doesn’t much matter though, a Yanmar 1500 cant put more than 5hp to the ground before the tires start spinning anyway. I connected a Yanmar 1500 to a PTO gen set and it ran out at 16.2hp.

 

[YanmarFever]

Buck, I hooked up an FX24-D to a dyno,and got almost 26 hp.
at the meter. So I tend to follow your formula,
The tractors on ebay mess things up for everyone because, the truth is streched past the limit ( a mile).
/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Ern.

 

[EFC]

Ernie, I agree. Hp is a lazy mans tool for picking/selling a tractor anyway. Every phone call I get is someone saying they "need" 30 hp minimum. It is like a shoot from the hip requirement. Later you find out they "need" about 2hp. They plan to plant flowers with it in there 20'x20' garden. People assume if it takes 200hp to move their car down the road you would need at least 30hp to move your tractor across the lawn. A 1hp single cylinder steam engine tractor has far more power and usable traction than a 3110 Yanmar. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[diggerjim]

Them darn horses, ya haveta rest'em at the ends of the fields or they get too hot. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just remember the ebayers are not the only ones stretching the standard of measurement. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

The point I was trying to make was that outside of the U.S. especially in European and Aisan countries the metric system is dominant. Ratings are in Kilowatt, as far as I've seen. PTO HP does diddlysquat when you hook the tractor up to a log, plow, middle buster etc. Same goes for Drawbar HP when using the PTO. Seems that I always find something to hook up to the requires more HP and traction than I have. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jim

 

[EFC]

Jim the perfect tractor would be 1hp with 900ft lbs of torque that always weighed twice as much as the implement. I can't find a drawbar load that will bog down an YM1110D enough to kill the engine. Hook it to your house it will just sit there and spin at idle. Dealers rate their tractors on flywheel hp, not sure why, just seems to be the norm. If it were up to me I would advertise a torque to weight ratio but customers know hp and you don’t want to here anything beyond that.