EarthForce EF-5 enhancements

[ns_in_tex]

I bought a digital outdoor thermometer from walmart for about 10.00 that has a thermister type sensor. Ran the remote sensor down through a hole in the cab floor & taped it to the side of the hydraulic oil filter, then strapped some rubber insulation over it. It seems to work OK. The reason I did this was because I built a extendible side mount mower for my fel & power it with a hydraulic motor. I wanted to be sure I didn't overheat my oil with the continous use of the hydraulics.

 

[MChalkley]

Very clever - and cost-effective. Pity they don't make a $15 one with a digital auto-scanning sensor switch with capacity for 10 sensors or so, and configurable hi/low alarms for each, and the ability to buy extra sensors for $2.

Oh well, I guess I'm fortunate to have found all that for under $1k.

So, what kind of tractor did you put it on and what temps are you seeing?

 

[ns_in_tex]

I put it on my kubota L4610 hst. The highest temps I have seen so far is 140 degrees. This was running the hydraulic powered mower on maybe a 80 degree day. But today I was using the front end loader with the brush forks I built, piling & burning brush & logs in a pine tree patch. Ambient today was about 60 degrees. I noticed it reached 135 degrees today without the hydraulic mower on. On both operations I was only running about 1500 RPM when governer speed is set at 2700 RPM. So I am not sure what I may see in the future.
I did read on the web that 120/140 degrees was optional operating temperature & 180/200 was max.

 

[GregGG]

Re: EF future enhancements

MChalkley-<font color=blue>I haven't needed it, but I think I want it</font color=blue>

LOL, this is why I find MChalkley posts to have the most entertainment value out of all the posts. My type of thinking exactly.

 

[MChalkley]

Re: EF lube replacement

GregGG - "entertainment value"??? Hmm, well, ok, I'll take that. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Yesterday, I got around to replacing the lubricants in the EF-500. I put 20 gal Amsoil AWI (Anti-Wear ISO 46 Synthetic Hydraulic) oil in it. Apparently, about 5 gal of oil stayed in the cylinders, hoses, pumps, and motor, since the specs say it holds 25 gal. I replaced the oil in all the planetary hubs, differentials, and transfer case with almost 5 gal of Amsoil Series 2000 75W90. And, I put 8 qts of Castrol GTX 10W30 in the engine. I won't put synthetic in the engine until it's got 250 hours or so on it.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: EF lube replacement

<font color=blue>...Castrol GTX 10W30 in the engine...</font color=blue>

Hi Mark...

I thought the Castrol GTX was only "S"ervice category for gasoline engines... not "C"ommercial category for diesels... and also wouldn't you use 15W40 grade vs 10W30 instead...?

I was considering their full synthetic for winter use as being the only "C"ommercial oil they offered...? (and the price was very reasonable.../w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif)

 

[MChalkley]

Re: EF lube replacement

John,

I'll have to go check the bottle again. I know I checked the ratings on it, because I don't buy petroleum oil anymore - I only bought this because the EF-500's engine isn't broken in yet. Once it is, I'll be back to using full synthethic in everything.

Maybe it's not GTX that I bought, because I'm certain the label included diesel category engines. I got 10W30 because the Kubota manual doesn't recommend 15W40 in any temperature range - they spec 10W30 or 10W40 throughout. When I switch it over to synthetic, I'll probably use 15W40 though, because the cold weather lubrication is better with synthetic 15W40 that petroleum 5W30 even, so using the slightly higher viscosity synthetic wouldn't be a problem. (For that matter, now that warmer weather is here, I could've used the 15W40 petroleum, as you said, as long as I changed it before next winter.)

But, for now, you've got me worried - I've got to go check the label on the rest of the bottles in that case of Castrol I bought... /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

 

[MikePA]

Re: EF lube replacement

Hopefully, it was this. Castrol RX Super or Syntec. Doesn't look like any of the other versions are for diesels.

 

[MChalkley]

Re: EF lube replacement

Mike - Well, that's a bummer. Now, I've got to go change the oil in the EarthForce again. The Castrol I got isn't rated for diesel use, much less turbo-charged diesels.

John - I sure appreciate your bringing that to my attention. My Kubota engine thanks you! /w3tcompact/icons/love.gif I don't know how I ended up screwing up that bad, unless I got the Castrol ratings mixed up with some Valvoline that was for sale right beside it. Aarrrrgh! /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif

 

[MChalkley]

Re: EF lube replacement

JMIII - I asked Castol's tech support dept about my goof, and here's the reply I got: "We would recommend that you change the oil immediately.... GTX is no longer diesel rated and should NOT be used for a diesel application." Note the words "is no longer". I think I now realize how I made this mistake. It used to be rated for diesel service. Not having purchased petroleum products in quite a while, I just didn't look closely enough at the ratings, I guess, though I sure thought I did. I know I saw the CG-4 rating on something I looked at, but it sure wasn't the Castrol GTX. Again, thanks for catching that one for me, and potentially saving my engine!

I also called the Amsoil tech services department and asked them about non-C-rated oil in the Kubota turbo-diesel, and he had two words: "Drain it." I was hoping the rating had to do more with longevity issues. Alas - I'm afraid not. At least I only ran the engine a couple hours on it...

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: EF lube replacement

Mark:
I've run a race motor on a dyno with breakin oil. Didn't hurt a thing. At least the oil didn't. I know its anecdotal, but the only conceivable problem in a couple of hours would show up someday in the turbocharger, if you ran it hot and hard.
I suggest you run it 10 or 12 thousand hours and then check for damage.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: EF lube replacement

<font color=blue>...potentially saving my engine!...</font color=blue>

Ahhhhhhhhhh... that's a tad stretching it... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

The way you use you machine... a one shot deal is no big "deal"... now if you continued to keep using that... a different story...

This fall I may try Castrol's synthetic however... but need a nasty super cold winter for a real test... (brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...)

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: EF lube replacement

<font color=blue>...I suggest you run it 10 or 12 thousand hours and then check for damage. ...</font color=blue>

Mark... Charlie just wants an excuse to tell ya... "I told ya so... you should of got the Power Trac... that's what you get for changing your mind..." /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[MChalkley]

Re: EF lube replacement

Charlie - Thanks for the anecdotal evidence on the break-in oil. How 'bout instead of waiting for 10,000 hours, then letting you know, if I just keep you posted on a day by day basis? I'll start a new thread, if you like, titled "How my EF-500 is doing today". I should be able to run it up to 500 posts in no time. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

 

[MChalkley]

Re: EF lube replacement

JMIII - <font color=blue>that's a tad stretching it...</font color=blue>

Perhaps, but I'm a nut, remember? I take a lot of pride in maintaining my equipment in the best possible manner - then taking it out and thrashing the daylights out of it to see if it breaks anyway. I don't want it to have any excuses on my account.

Keep me posted on your Castol synthetic experiment. I think you'll be very pleased, especially if you have any empirical data to compare to.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: EF lube replacement-Full Synthetic vs Blend...

Mark,

The last couple years have been very mild winters… so I’m sure we’re overdue.

Castrol was one of the very few (off-the-shelf) manufacturers that had a full synthetic oil product available that is “C”ommercial approved for diesel engines and the price was excellent in comparison with specialty manufacturers…(~$2.79 – 3.29 qt.)

Note… this is Full Synthetic not a blend…(whatever that may be…?) The poor consumer sees SYNTHETIC in big bold capital letters up on the shelf and grabs a bunch of cans (or clear see-through bottles for the oil connoisseur {of course-the bottle costs more /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif})… and never really see’s the teeny tiny small print off to the side that says blend… Well heck, bring you tractor over, I’ll put in a synthetic blend for ya… I’ll change the 8 quarts of oil with “regular” “C” oil of about 7 ¾ qts. and then for the finale - I will top it off with 8 oz’s. of pure unadulterated synthetic oil… There… I blended it for ya… /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

So buyer beware when you see the words “blend”… I’ve never seen any so called official oil rules of what percentages are allowed to be considered blend… another marketing gimmick…/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif In all seriousness, if someone wanted a blend (maybe couldn’t afford the 100% real stuff…?) you’d be further ahead buying 4 qts of regular and 4 qts. of full synthetic and know first hand you at least have a 50% blend… /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

~~~from the web~~~
Question: Wouldn't it be better (or just as good) if I mixed Syntec with GTX?
Answer: Although all the oils are compatible, this is not the way we make Syntec Blend - it is fully formulated in its own right with conventional GTX base stocks and Syntec molecular components to achieve its unique properties.
~~~to give a balanced view…Marketing hype…? - You decide…~~~

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.castrolusa.com/products/productpage1.asp?product_category=1&product_id=4#overview>Castrol Synthetic Engine Oil Facts & Spec’s & Video’s…</A>

 

[MChalkley]

Re: EF lube replacement-Full Synthetic vs Blend...

JMIII - I've never been too sure what the value of a "blend" would be, either.

I know I'm a bit on the cynical side, but every time I see a Castrol, Quaker State, Pennzoil, Valvoline, or whatever, ad for synthetic oil, in which they make all these wonderful claims for the product, I can't help but think back to the days when I was using Amsoil, Mobil 1 wasn't even commonly available yet, and all the aforementioned synthetic wanna-be oil companies could say about synthetic then was phwwwtttt (you know, the sound you make when you stick your tongue out and blow really hard). It just galls me, that's all. I'm can't help wondering when (and why) they learned so much about oil (not to mention who from). I also can't help getting a little of that "either they're stupid or they think I am" feeling, too. They must think the memories of those of us that were championing synthetics back then are pretty short, that's all I can say. Mine's bad, but it's not that bad. /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif

 

[MChalkley]

Re: EF lube replacement

JMIII - By the way, you'll be happy to know (or at least I am) that I drained the Castrol GTX out and replaced it with Rotella T today. I couldn't find a 10W30 or 10W40 that was turbo-diesel rated, so I went with the 15W40. It's summertime anyway, and the engine will have synthetic by winter, so it won't matter.

Once again, thanks for the heads-up! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: EF lube replacement-Full Synthetic vs Blend...

Mark:
Just to throw a small bit of confusion into the mix. Way back when Mobil 1 was new, Mobil bought the first few cars that were claimed to have been destroyed by Mobil 1 failure. They tore down the engine of each one, and, of course, found no evidence of lubricant failure. (Note the difference between lubricant failure and lubrication failure.)
I defended Mobil in the first lawsuit in which they decided to stop buying cars and start proving that Mobil 1 doesn't fail.
In the lowest non-jury court in Annapolis, we showed up with a team of lubricant engineers, samples, charts, graphs and photos. The judge, being no dummy, realized his day would be shot if we put on the whole trial, so he listened carefully and held that the plaintiff had proven lubrication failure, not lubricant failure. (The guy who changed the oil left the drain plug loose or out. After the engine fried, he was called to tow the vehicle. We were prepared to show that the Mobil I in the car when inspected had never been in a running engine.)
One of the Mobil engineers who came to testify told me a lot that I have forgotten about development of the synthetic base. They were understandably very proud of it. One thing he told me really startled me, however. He said that if they put all the same additives in a petroleum product, it would be almost as good as Mobil 1. It would be just as expensive, however, so no one would buy it.
Maybe the "blends" aren't necessarily bad lubricants.

 

[MChalkley]

Re: EF lube replacement-Full Synthetic vs Blend...

Charlie - Thanks for a very interesting story. I've heard some interesting stories about Amsoil's early days and the suits against them. Only difference is, unlike yours, I don't have any idea whether the ones I've heard are true or not.

I've learned a lot about additive packages over the years (admittedly about 75% of it from Amsoil's perspective), and it doesn't jive with what the Mobil engineer told you. One of the major benefits of synthetics is that, when the base is properly engineered, they don't require nearly as large an additive package as petroleum products. With petroleum oils, though the oil itself deteriorates, of course, it's the additive package deterioration that makes the oil unfit for continued use, provided it's kept clean, that is. So, if what the Mobil engineer said is true, it means they were using a lower quality, less expensive, base than they could've been - a contention made by Amsoil for many years now, in their assertion that their oils are better quality than most other synthetics, and justifiably more expensive. I don't know if that's true, either, but the pieces seem to fit...