Duramax vs. Powerstroke

[MIKE R]

I don't know if you are talking 2- or 4-wheel drive, but I made up my mind that I would never again buy a 2-wheel drive diesel in snow country.

Most defiantly 4-wheel drive. Couldn't make it down the road, mean while up the driveway without it in the winter. I wouldn't even bother looking at a vehicle if it weren't 4-wheel drive.

 

[Lou66]

I have a 2003 F-350, 6.0 diesel, 4 wheel drive, 4 door crew cab.. with all the extras,, it has 93K miles on it.. I pull trailers, mostly goose neck, with my haying equipment.. I have it serviced regularly 6K miles.. never had a problem with it.. get 17 mpg in city.. and 22 mpg on the highway.. pulling a trailer.. did have the bully dog chip installed when I bought the truck in 2003.. Lou

 

[Swiftriver]

Currently own a '08 Duramax and have owned since new. It went to the dealer twice under warranty for exhaust smell in the cab during regeneration (squirts raw diesel into the exhaust) to clean the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). The second dealership replaced the turbo downpipe, and this improved the smell. The other issues fixed under warranty were the pockets on the seat backs came loose, had an issue with the tailgate not latching. Currently one of the cigarette outlets doesn't work but it has overall been good truck. Mileage wise it gets 15/19 in normal weather and drops to 12 towing and in single digit temperatures.

The 2007.5 - 2009 will be pretty much the same, they were pretty much new sheetmetal/interior on the 2006-7LBZ Duramax trucks except for the addition of the previously mentioned DPF. I think the sheetmetal is thinner than on my 2005 1/2 ton work truck at least it seems to dent easier.

I had the EXACT same problems with my 08 GMC except my dealer (at the time) said there was nothing wrong with the diesel fumes in the cab. :thumbdown: I also had a problem with not being able to keep batterys in it. They would only last a year. That being said, I liked that truck so much I just traded for a 13 GMC SLE. I only have 3500 miles on it so far but I am liking it more every day. No more smell at regen. I think they fixed that problem with the 9th injector. I'm also real happy with the engine brake they added. I have only hauled my tractor a short distance so far but what a difference. I didn't even have to use the brakes to slow down when I turned into the yard. Mileadge wise it seems to be the same as my 08. 13 MPG so far, but we have been in sub-zero temps so I am hoping it will improve. My truck is freighted with electrical supplys and tools, 9700 lbs the last time it went on the scales, so it won'y improve much. As far as the extra cost to buy the diesel, it only hurt that first time. I got my money back, and then some, when it came time to trade. They definitely hold their value better than a gas job. I practically gave my 05 gas GMC away.I would not hesitate at all to recommend a Duramax/Allison. BTW, the company I used to work for always supplied Fords. That's the reason I run GMC. JUST MY OPINION.

 

[hodge]

Thirsty in stock form. Delete the EGR and DPF and its a good package. The Torque Shift tranny is up to the task of lots of extra power. Its standard since 2003.5

I have never owned one but a few of my boating buddies have them. 12 mpg around town and maybe 17 on the highway in stock trim. Do the mods and they will do what the 6.0 will do.

He probably won't be doing any deleting. The EPA is going after the manufacturers, and through them, the owners. Here is a thread from Diesel Truck Resource about Edge getting fined.
Edge hit with $500k fine by the EPA - Dodge Diesel - Diesel Truck Resource Forums

 

[WM75Guy]

I have an 03 and 08 2500 HD, both with the Duramax. The 03 is at 180,000 and the 08 is at 85,000. The 03 had injectors and pump replaced under warranty in 08, had a front diff bearing go out about the same time, and I put a water pump on last year. It still has original brakes and I use it to pull trailers often. The Tow/Haul mode is great for saving wear and tear on the truck. The 03 has factory dual alternators and power extend mirrors, a great thing if you can find one with them. Both were options on the 03 and 04 GM pickups. I have had to replace batteries once. The 08 has been good also, just replaced batteries on it, no major mechanical problems. The 03 gets better fuel mileage as it does not have the DPF like the 08.

I had a 1994 1/2 ton 2WD with the 6.5 Turbo diesel. It proved to me to never buy a 2WD with a diesel as the front end could not handle the added weight. I traded it in on the 03.

I drove a brand new 2006 1 ton Ford E350 ambulance with the 6.0 and found it gutless. The previous trucks had the 7.3 and there was a big difference in power and acceleration. Mechanically the 6.0 was OK, it just lacked power. I would go with the 7.3 instead of the 6.0. I haven't had any experience with the newer Ford diesels.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I drove a brand new 2006 1 ton Ford E350 ambulance with the 6.0 and found it gutless. The previous trucks had the 7.3 and there was a big difference in power and acceleration. Mechanically the 6.0 was OK, it just lacked power. I would go with the 7.3 instead of the 6.0. I haven't had any experience with the newer Ford diesels.

That must have been either a sick 6.0 or a derated version like they put on cabs and chassis. I have been around dozens of both the 7.3 & 6.0 and a 6.0 in stock form will out perform a chipped and modified 7.3.

Not saying the 7.3 is a bad motor. I loved mine but power wise it was no 6.0 even with a grand in mods.

Chris

 

[DT86]

That must have been either a sick 6.0 or a derated version like they put on cabs and chassis.

I'm pretty sure the vans were derated more so than the cab and chassis.

 

[IgroRockwell]

Sorry Soundguy, I posted and went to bed, didn't see your question. The truck that was so useless in snow was single rears. But, I ran an 82 6.2l chevy diesel drw ton truck back in the day, and it wasn't too much better. It would go forward quite well, but hated to back out of any kind of snow without weight on the back. It's kind of a fact of life in snow country that you gotta run weights in a 2-wheel drive in winter. Most people have concrete blocks or 5-gallon buckets of sand or something. I always hated to have to mess around with weights. My "new" diesel is a crewcab shortbed and it behaves much better in the snow even in 2 wheel drive. However it came with top-of-the-line Michelin snow tires with lots of siping so how much difference is due to the tires I don't know.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I'm pretty sure the vans were derated more so than the cab and chassis.

That makes sence. The 6.0 is a hot motor if maintained and one can get over the internet lore. I'm not saying they don't have some issue areas but that can be overcame easily.

Chris

 

[dodge man]

I've never owned either, but I have a co-worker with a 06 D-max. Its a really nice truck and he has had good luck with it. I own a 04 Cummins, but there is no doubt in my mind I'd own a D-max before a 6.0 Ford. There is a place that does a lot of diesel pickup repair in my area called Randalls located in a little town of Stronghurst Ill. They seem to always have a 6.0 Ford in the shop with the cab off fixing all the problems you hear about. I'm sure there are lots of people that have had good luck with them, and they made a lot of them, but I'd stay away.

I know you didn't ask, but keep your mind open to a Dodge with the Cummins. People always say its a great engine in a Dodge. In my opinion, its a good truck with a great engine.

 

[xtn]

I have owned and daily driven a 2003 6.0 PowerStroke F250 CC 4X4 for quite some time. Bought used in 2006 with about 27k miles. Now has 236k miles of 70% highway, 30% city. Occasional towing of a boat, a utility trailer, or a camper. I was tempted to chip it early on, but never did. It's completely bone stock on all counts except for the tires. Despite this being supposedly the worst engine ever produced by any manufacturer in the history of mankind - according to the internet - I have only had the following trouble:

1. Turbo quit working at 46k miles. Replaced under warranty and smooth spooling ever since.
2. Finally had a bad fuel injector at 231k miles. Been waiting for years for this to happen.
3. The vacuum pump finally quit this week. So I can't engage 4x4 or get any cabin air except through the defrost openings. I'll fix it this weekend.
4. The front tire tread starts to show cupping after five or six thousand miles. I let them cup a little, then rotate them to the back where they smooth out again. So regular tire rotations for me.

That's it. I keep up with the normal maintenance mostly. I wash it once a year. I drive like a middle-aged man, but do "blow the gunk out" once in a while. Since the trade in value will hardly pay the sales tax on a new replacement, I plan to keep driving it until it won't drive any more. I cross my fingers and hope that will be another couple hundred thousand miles.

xtn

 

[hodge]

I have owned and daily driven a 2003 6.0 PowerStroke F250 CC 4X4 for quite some time. Bought used in 2006 with about 27k miles. Now has 236k miles of 70% highway, 30% city. Occasional towing of a boat, a utility trailer, or a camper. I was tempted to chip it early on, but never did. It's completely bone stock on all counts except for the tires. Despite this being supposedly the worst engine ever produced by any manufacturer in the history of mankind - according to the internet - I have only had the following trouble:

1. Turbo quit working at 46k miles. Replaced under warranty and smooth spooling ever since.
2. Finally had a bad fuel injector at 231k miles. Been waiting for years for this to happen.
3. The vacuum pump finally quit this week. So I can't engage 4x4 or get any cabin air except through the defrost openings. I'll fix it this weekend.
4. The front tire tread starts to show cupping after five or six thousand miles. I let them cup a little, then rotate them to the back where they smooth out again. So regular tire rotations for me.

That's it. I keep up with the normal maintenance mostly. I wash it once a year. I drive like a middle-aged man, but do "blow the gunk out" once in a while. Since the trade in value will hardly pay the sales tax on a new replacement, I plan to keep driving it until it won't drive any more. I cross my fingers and hope that will be another couple hundred thousand miles.

xtn

You have been fortunate. A friend of mine bought a 450 with a 6.0, and had it in the shop numerous times with injection issues- not the injector, but the management. The injector would stay open, flooding the cylinder with fuel. He took a $20,000 beating getting rid of that truck. Another friend of mine is the diesel mechanic at our local Ford dealership. His bay is always occupied with a 6.0/6.4 needing work. I have always been Ford loyal (at least until I bought a Dodge/Cummins diesel), and will stick up for them, but those two diesel engines had problems, plain and simple. Not that you can't get a good one, as you prove, but that is the exception, not the normal.
All three manufacturers have had their issues- gas engines have issues, too, but aren't typically as expensive to repair. I would say drive both the Ford and Chevy, and see what you like. Otherwise, it is a hit or miss on getting a problem free truck or not.

 

[crashz]

+1

However, I'm next to two F250's (04 an 03) with the 6.0, both with over 300k. They are contractor trucks and while I have no idea of the maintenance or repair history, they are beat unmercifully. The bodies and interior are trashed. But these guys run them everyday and all over the US.

 

[xtn]

You have been fortunate.

Oh I know it! Like a dummy I didn't research before I bought. Didn't realize until a month or so afterwards - when I found dieselstop.com to read up about tuners/chips - that I had accidentally bought such a problematic truck. I drove with anxiety for the first year or so, and then I realized worrying about it wouldn't change it. Just put it out of my mind and drove. And drove. And drove. Even when the turbo went it was a non-event. Still drove fine, just didn't have much grunt.

However, I'm next to two F250's (04 an 03) with the 6.0, both with over 300k. They are contractor trucks and while I have no idea of the maintenance or repair history, they are beat unmercifully. The bodies and interior are trashed. But these guys run them everyday and all over the US.

Glad to hear it. Hope I reach that mileage and well beyond.

 

[Soundguy]

That must have been either a sick 6.0 or a derated version like they put on cabs and chassis. I have been around dozens of both the 7.3 & 6.0 and a 6.0 in stock form will out perform a chipped and modified 7.3.

Not saying the 7.3 is a bad motor. I loved mine but power wise it was no 6.0 even with a grand in mods.

Chris

i agree. I wouldn't get rid of my 7.3's.. but the 6.0 is almost a race car engine compaired to them.,. I've parked a tire on the 7.3's but they are not a donut blower.. the 6.0.. well.. it is a donut blower if asked..

 

[MIKE R]

Ok, so by the sounds of it I should stay away from the 6.0L Powerstroke, there may be a few good ones but most are bad. Take the older 2003 7.3L Powerstroke or 6.4L Powerstroke or a Duramax.

The 7.3L, 6.4L and Duramax are all common rail injection unlike the 6.0L that is oil pressure injected. Correct???

 

[Soundguy]

it's probably safer to say there are \a few bad ones and plenty of good ones.

there aren't sites setup to post about the good ones. but when bad one out of warranty eats 6k-12k$ over time.. that gets reported pretty heavilly.

kinda like priests and teachers abusing kids.

really. only a FEW do it.

but it makes the news!

that said. given the choice.. i'd get a late 7.3

Ok, so by the sounds of it I should stay away from the 6.0L Powerstroke, there may be a few good ones but most are bad. Take the older 2003 7.3L Powerstroke or 6.4L Powerstroke or a Duramax.

The 7.3L, 6.4L and Duramax are all common rail injection unlike the 6.0L that is oil pressure injected. Correct???

 

[Dmace]

it's probably safer to say there are \a few bad ones and plenty of good ones.

While I agree very few people join forums to say how great their trucks are, rarely do problems get blown out of proportion.
For example, the Duramax injector issue was pretty widespread but also not as common as the 6.0l problems and therefor not nearly as well known as the 6.0l problems.
The Cummins "53" block was a problem but again not nearly as common as the 6.0l problems.
The fact that the 6.0l was so bad with so many problems that it destroyed a great and long running relationship between the auto manufacturer (Ford) and engine manufacturer (Navistar/International) shows it was a much larger problem than other diesel engine's.

To say "there may be a few good ones but most are bad" when speaking of the 6.0l is certainly more accurate than " a few bad ones and plenty of good ones" which better describes good engines with lesser problems like the Duramax and Cummins listed.
IMHO of course. :laughing:

To the original poster, the 6.4l was not much better in terms of reliability and much worse on fuel. So far the all new Ford built 6.7l seems to be a winner but not in the range you're looking for. Not sure why you left out the Dodge/Cummins combo but for 2004-2009, it's tough to beat...

 

[hodge]

Ok, so by the sounds of it I should stay away from the 6.0L Powerstroke, there may be a few good ones but most are bad. Take the older 2003 7.3L Powerstroke or 6.4L Powerstroke or a Duramax.

The 7.3L, 6.4L and Duramax are all common rail injection unlike the 6.0L that is oil pressure injected. Correct???

The 7.3's use oil pressure to inject the fuel, too.

 

[Soundguy]

do you have #'s for amount produced, and amount repaired?

seems if less that 50% repaired.. there are more good than bad.. no? just looking at #'s.

and if the # is 20/80 ??

While I agree very few people join forums to say how great their trucks are, rarely do problems get blown out of proportion.
For example, the Duramax injector issue was pretty widespread but also not as common as the 6.0l problems and therefor not nearly as well known as the 6.0l problems.
The Cummins "53" block was a problem but again not nearly as common as the 6.0l problems.
The fact that the 6.0l was so bad with so many problems that it destroyed a great and long running relationship between the auto manufacturer (Ford) and engine manufacturer (Navistar/International) shows it was a much larger problem than other diesel engine's.

To say "there may be a few good ones but most are bad" when speaking of the 6.0l is certainly more accurate than " a few bad ones and plenty of good ones" which better describes good engines with lesser problems like the Duramax and Cummins listed.
IMHO of course. :laughing:

To the original poster, the 6.4l was not much better in terms of reliability and much worse on fuel. So far the all new Ford built 6.7l seems to be a winner but not in the range you're looking for. Not sure why you left out the Dodge/Cummins combo but for 2004-2009, it's tough to beat...