Duramax towing MPG

/ Duramax towing MPG #21  
In Europe things are different than here. But in all honesty many people tow 7,500# or more behind 1/2 tons that weigh 5,500# like me. I also tow 15,600# every weekend behind my 7,600# 1 ton SRW and many tow more than that.
Biggest difference between pickup towing, and family car towing, is the tongue weight you can put on a pickup: In Holland we tend to place the tandem 2 inches behind the middle of the bed, to not exceed drawbar load. Most pickup bumper pulls i've seen, have the axles at 2/3 of the bed.
A 3.5 ton surge brake head with coupler, is usually rated for 150kg vertical load.
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #22  
What I don't understand is how I can get 10.2 to 10.5 mpg (running the speed limit) with a 35,000 pound coach being powered by a Cat C9 http://ohe.cat.com/cda/files/448361/7/LEDT7015 -C9 Engine Brochure 8.9.07.pdf engine.

The brochure itself, reveals its secret:
Gearing Considerations
The C9 engine offers a wide operating range and
high torque rise for compatibility with a wide range of
transmissions. For best performance, trucks should be
geared to achieve the appropriate balance between
startability and desired road speed, and drivers should
follow 敵ear Fast, Run Slow techniques.
For the best balance of performance and economy,
spec axle ratios and tire sizes according to the following:
60,000 lb GCW or less
1150 lb-ft: 1650 rpm @ 65 mph (105 km/h)
1250 lb-ft and above: 1600 rpm @ 65 mph (105 km/h)
To optimize your truckç—´ performance characteristics,
the minimum startability requirements are 10%
for pickup and delivery, 14% for line haul, 20% for
on/off-highway and 25% for off-highway.
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #23  
i had a chevy D/A 4x4 dually 3500. towing around 14 i stayed around 11-13 depending on the hills/speed i was cruising. my present 4500 4x4 gets 12-14 towing the same weight. when towing 9 tons with a bumper pull trailer and excavator it drops to 10-11 on the interstate. rarely do i run much over 70 when towing heavier loads.
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #24  
Prior to the added pollution reducing DPF on the Dmax (early 2007) my Dmax, an 05, got 20 MPG empty and 15 MPG while towing 7500#.

I regrettably traded in the 05 for an 07 (with DPF) and the MPG went to 15.5 empty and 11-12 towing the same load.

The new Dmax coming out has an additional urea system which will probably not add any MPG. I don't do a lot of towing so I went back to a gas truck with a 5.3 and get 17.5 empty and 12.5 towing the same load. It may get better when the truck breaks in.

As for towing 14K, a diesel truck will get you better MPG than your getting with your 8.1L. Don't know if you'd double the MPG but you should come close.
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #25  
Big thing with towing is where, what, and how you are towing. Lets say you are towing your trailer up and down hills in a mountian area the diesel is going to win every day. Towing around town, short hops, lower speeds (below 50 mph), you may not see such a big differance.

Case in point. I stated earlier my neighbor has a 2007 Classic, non dpf 3500 SRW 4x4 Dmax 3.73 gears. It gets about 20 mpg on the highway at 70. Any faster and it drops considerably. Around town it averages 12 mpg for him. He is a commercial mower and tows a tandem 16' landscape trailer 4 days a week pulling 2 ZTR's at 1,200# each plus the trailer at 1,500# for a total of 3,900#. Now he just got back from a trip that was 9,000 miles over 4 weeks and averaged just over 11 mpg pulling 12,000# 5th Wheel.

His previous truck was a 2005 F-150 5.4L 4x4 with 3.73 gears. He pulled the same trailer for his landscape business. He got 13 mpg average, actually better than with the diesel. It would only do 16 on the highway though with no load compared to the 20 mpg his Dmax gets. He pulled a 7,000# travel trailer back then and got 10 mpg versus the 11 mpg the diesel gets. Of course the diesel is pulling nearly twice the load and does it much better but there is no significant increase in mpg while towing.

As for maintenance I do it all for him except for the warranty work. I do preventive stuff on all his equipment including dump trucks, tractors, dozer, mowers, trucks, suv's, go carts for the kids, ect. Sunday I did a 60,000 mile service. I put on a new fuel filter @$40, new air filter @$65, a oil change 10qts syn 5W40 and filter was $75, and rotated the tires which are nearly worn out (2nd set). As you can see its expensive. We do 7,500 mile oil changed and all other filters are at 20,000 miles.

Chris
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #26  
If your not dead-set on getting a brand new truck then maybe look at a used diesel truck. Like the others have said, if you want better MPG's then look for a pre-DPF truck like the pre-05 6.6l Duramax, pre-07.5 5.9l Cummins, or pre-04 7.3l Powerstroke. It will be harder to find exactly the truck you want but will be MUCH cheaper up-front and will pay for itself MUCH earlier than a new truck. That may turn the significant other towards a purchase. :cool:
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #28  
I had an 04 3500 SRW Duramax and a Duramax 05 Dually and could never ever come off between 10-12mpg EMPTY. I duped them both.

I had similar experiences with the older D/A trucks. I loved the ride, interior, and dual climate a/c, but I could not get the mileage out of them, especially not anything like the guys are claiming in some of these posts. Maybe I had 3 lemons:confused:
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #29  
Don't be too impressed. If you listen closely the "chief engineer" says they are similarly equipped with the "LOWEST NUMERICAL AXLE RATIO". That is the kicker right there. For those that may or may not know, the lower the numerical number, the taller the gear.
Lowest numerical axle ratio offered:
Ford - 3.31
Dodge - 3.42
Chevy - 3.73

So they were not "similarly equipped". The Ford had taller gearing which means the rpms were lower at the rated speed which lead to the better fuel mileage. If they all had the same rear axle ratio (they all offer 3.73), I bet the outcome would be different and I bet the RAM Cummins would be on top. It's Ford doing what they do best, playing the numbers game instead of actually showing a true FAIR competition.
Motor Trend did a true FAIR competition and the RAM heavy duty truck came out as Truck of the Year for a reason.
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #30  
I had an 04 3500 SRW Duramax and a Duramax 05 Dually and could never ever come off between 10-12mpg EMPTY. I duped them both.

I know it's advertising but I was impressed by ......
2011 Ford Super Duty Trucks | Built Stronger. Tougher. Better. | FordVehicles.com


A freind has an 04 CC SB 4x4 DMAX [LLY version]. It has a hard time breaking 15MPG on the highway empty. My 03 LB7 Reg cab 8 ft box 4x4 gets 19 to 22 empty on the highway, and the worst towing mileage ever was 13 mpg towing a 15k mini excavator and trailer. I normaly tow a 7-9k 28 ft enclosed, and get 14 to 17 depending on wind and how much of a hurry I am in
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #31  
Don't be too impressed. If you listen closely the "chief engineer" says they are similarly equipped with the "LOWEST NUMERICAL AXLE RATIO". That is the kicker right there. For those that may or may not know, the lower the numerical number, the taller the gear.
Lowest numerical axle ratio offered:
Ford - 3.31
Dodge - 3.42
Chevy - 3.73

So they were not "similarly equipped". The Ford had taller gearing which means the rpms were lower at the rated speed which lead to the better fuel mileage. If they all had the same rear axle ratio (they all offer 3.73), I bet the outcome would be different and I bet the RAM Cummins would be on top. It's Ford doing what they do best, playing the numbers game instead of actually showing a true FAIR competition.
Motor Trend did a true FAIR competition and the RAM heavy duty truck came out as Truck of the Year for a reason.

You will defend Dodge because you are Brand Loyal as you say but the rear end meant something a few years ago but does not really mean much now days. All the manufactures, Ford included, have made great strides in trannys. Another big difference is the tire sizes used now days. The ratios have changed so much that a 3.42 gear can now be equal to a 4.10 gear in a similar truck that is just 2 years old. Also going from the old standard 15" tires and wheels compared to the new trucks with 18" or larger can make a bid difference.

To get a true FAIR comparison you would need to do the math starting with the engine RPM's then calculate the gear ratio in the tranny, then the rear axle ratio, and finally the tire rotations per mile. I have sat down and did just this a few years back on the 08 models and they were all very close.

Chris
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #32  
A freind has an 04 CC SB 4x4 DMAX [LLY version]. It has a hard time breaking 15MPG on the highway empty. My 03 LB7 Reg cab 8 ft box 4x4 gets 19 to 22 empty on the highway, and the worst towing mileage ever was 13 mpg towing a 15k mini excavator and trailer. I normaly tow a 7-9k 28 ft enclosed, and get 14 to 17 depending on wind and how much of a hurry I am in


I am right in the ball park with you Ryan in my 2006 F-350 SRW 4x4 short bed extended cab with the 6.0 PSD. I average 17 mpg every tank plus or minus 1 mpg. I get 23.6 mpg at 79mph/1900rpm on the highway. Towing I get 15-17 mpg depending on how big a hurry I am in. I have seen as low as 13 mpg but that was with a heavy load and getting on it in the Smokies. Basically the same as you.

I do run a Quadzilla chip, 4" exhaust, and a MAC cold air intake.

Chris
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #33  
You will defend Dodge because you are Brand Loyal as you say but the rear end meant something a few years ago but does not really mean much now days.

It doesn't matter who I "defend", the facts are the facts. When I defend a company, I do it with FACTS. You always defend Ford by just saying "that doesn't matter" or "it's not real world". The FACT is the Ford has a taller rear end then the others. If it was the other way around with another manufacturer then you would be right there too comparing axle ratios. But when Ford's coming out ahead, all of a sudden they don't matter. Too funny! :laughing:
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #34  
It doesn't matter who I "defend", the facts are the facts. When I defend a company, I do it with FACTS. You always defend Ford by just saying "that doesn't matter" or "it's not real world". The FACT is the Ford has a taller rear end then the others. If it was the other way around with another manufacturer then you would be right there too comparing axle ratios. But when Ford's coming out ahead, all of a sudden they don't matter. Too funny! :laughing:

Facts are facts. Sorry you are too blind to see it. I would have never bought a truck with less than 3.73 gears a few years ago. Now I have to eat crow and say I would.

Case in point is my cousin bought a new 1500 GMC 4x4 with 3.42 gears and the 5.3L in about 2005. That thing was sorry to say the least. Had something like a 6,800# tow rating and him pulling a 5,000# boat to Tennessee left him struggling in the hills on I75. My F-150 with 10,000# and 3.73 gears did just as good. Neither one of us were winning any races.

Today an the same truck with a 3.42 gear is a different beast. Reason being is 6 speed tranny. Put a low 1st gear in it like the old Granny Gear Trannys, (hides the tall rear end), and put a real tall 6th gear in it and now you have a truck that can tow 9,000# plus and get 20 mpg on the highway. Nissan led the way with this thinking back in 2003 when they introduced the Titan and GM followed quickly. It was a smart move and sold many trucks for GM. Dodge and Ford were late to the game and stayed with old school ideas but are now up to speed.

Again, just the facts!

Chris
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #35  
Facts are facts. Sorry you are too blind to see it.

Case in point is my cousin bought a new 1500 GMC 4x4 with 3.42 gears and the 5.3L in about 2005. That thing was sorry to say the least. Had something like a 6,800# tow rating and him pulling a 5,000# boat to Tennessee left him struggling in the hills on I75. My F-150 with 10,000# and 3.73 gears did just as good. Neither one of us were winning any races.

Today an the same truck with a 3.42 gear is a different beast. Reason being is 6 speed tranny.

WHERE ARE THE FACTS IN YOUR POST? All I see is YOUR OPINION! Now your comparing 6-speed transmissions to 5-speeds?
We are not comparing 6 year old trucks with 5 speed transmissions here. Sure a new truck with a 6-speed transmission can have a taller rear end than an older truck with a 5-speed but that has NOTHING to do with the comparison of three BRAND NEW TRUCKS all with 6 SPEED transmissions. The difference in rear axle ratios still means just as much considering the transmissions and tire sizes are so close between these three. Your comparisons are not even close to the question in hand and I'm the blind one? :laughing: :laughing:
You get a double laughing smiley for that one!
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #36  
WHERE ARE THE FACTS IN YOUR POST? All I see is YOUR OPINION! Now your comparing 6-speed transmissions to 5-speeds?
We are not comparing 6 year old trucks with 5 speed transmissions here. Sure a new truck with a 6-speed transmission can have a taller rear end than an older truck with a 5-speed but that has NOTHING to do with the comparison of three BRAND NEW TRUCKS all with 6 SPEED transmissions. The difference in rear axle ratios still means just as much considering the transmissions and tire sizes are so close between these three. Your comparisons are not even close to the question in hand and I'm the blind one? :laughing: :laughing:
You get a double laughing smiley for that one!

I don't have all the exact numbers on all the final drive ratios so I'm not going to state anything specific as fact. I will just say that the rear axle ratio is not the only ratio that is important when deciding how hard an engine is going to work to pull a load or how many rpms it's going to run cruising on the highway. It is a combination of the rear axle ratio and the gear ratios in the transmission that matter. So it is conceivable with the newer trannies and their 6 speeds that you can get a lower overall final drive ratio with a vehicle that has taller gears and end up with a truck still able to start off with heavy loads and still get respectable fuel economy when cruising.

Having said that, I think that this design is prevalent in all manufacturers GM, Ford and Chrysler. It looks like the test was fair as Ford took the tallest gears available from each company when they conducted their test. It isn't Ford's problem that GM and Dodge didn't have the option of 3.31 gears on their trucks. The tallest gears that you could get with a GM was 3.73 at the time I believe while 3.42 was as tall as you could get in a Dodge. I think what is being presented is that if you want to get the best fuel economy the Ford offers a taller gear ratio for the rear axle that is still capable of pulling a heavy load. I wish GM offered a 3.42 ratio for their Duramax equipped trucks but it appears that at the time of the test they didn't, so I can't fault Ford for that, and I like GM trucks. I think it would be a less fair test if Ford compared one of their trucks equipped with a 3.31 rear axle against a Dodge and a Chevy with 4.10's knowing that a lower gear ratio was available, but that does not appear to be the case here.

In the end just because Ford has an edge in some areas, it doesn't mean that they make the best truck for me. Perhaps GM or Dodge have the edge in other areas and the advantage for me in those areas make another truck the overall best. To me the new Ford is not a good looking truck, it's not so bad that I wouldn't buy one just based on looks (like a Pontiac Aztek for example) but it is by far the least attractive 2011 heavy duty pickup in my eyes. Meanwhile Dodge is the best looking truck by far to me over Ford and Chevy but if I'm buying a 2011 I want a truck with urea injection as it seems to significantly improve fuel economy, so that's a strike against Dodge to me. Meanwhile I live in the Northeast where there's a lot of snow, and GM has had some serious issues with their Duramax in the snow so if that hasn't been totally addressed for 2011 then that's a big strike against them to me. So I guess what I'm saying is Ford, GM or Chrysler can jump up and down shouting horsepower numbers or towing numbers or mpg numbers whatever and those numbers don't mean a darn thing by themselves. The only FACT is that there is NO BEST PICKUP on the market. There may be a best pickup for Lt CHEG, and a best pickup for DMace and a best pickup for Diamond Pilot etc. etc. and most likely they are not the same truck. To me arguing numbers over any one vehicle proves little, especially considering just how capable and impressive each company's trucks are. I honestly don't let any person's brand preference or their defense of the same bother me, and it's sad to see people getting angry over the subject. I've had good luck with GM products but I have NO loyalty in this day and age, just like no company has any loyalty to me. I'll buy what's best for me regardless of whether there's a bow tie, a blue oval or horns on the front of the truck and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if that truck isn't the best truck for anyone else.
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #37  
I don't have all the exact numbers on all the final drive ratios so I'm not going to state anything specific as fact. I will just say that the rear axle ratio is not the only ratio that is important when deciding how hard an engine is going to work to pull a load or how many rpms it's going to run cruising on the highway. It is a combination of the rear axle ratio and the gear ratios in the transmission that matter. So it is conceivable with the newer trannies and their 6 speeds that you can get a lower overall final drive ratio with a vehicle that has taller gears and end up with a truck still able to start off with heavy loads and still get respectable fuel economy when cruising.

Having said that, I think that this design is prevalent in all manufacturers GM, Ford and Chrysler. It looks like the test was fair as Ford took the tallest gears available from each company when they conducted their test. It isn't Ford's problem that GM and Dodge didn't have the option of 3.31 gears on their trucks. The tallest gears that you could get with a GM was 3.73 at the time I believe while 3.42 was as tall as you could get in a Dodge. I think what is being presented is that if you want to get the best fuel economy the Ford offers a taller gear ratio for the rear axle that is still capable of pulling a heavy load. I wish GM offered a 3.42 ratio for their Duramax equipped trucks but it appears that at the time of the test they didn't, so I can't fault Ford for that, and I like GM trucks. I think it would be a less fair test if Ford compared one of their trucks equipped with a 3.31 rear axle against a Dodge and a Chevy with 4.10's knowing that a lower gear ratio was available, but that does not appear to be the case here.

In the end just because Ford has an edge in some areas, it doesn't mean that they make the best truck for me. Perhaps GM or Dodge have the edge in other areas and the advantage for me in those areas make another truck the overall best. To me the new Ford is not a good looking truck, it's not so bad that I wouldn't buy one just based on looks (like a Pontiac Aztek for example) but it is by far the least attractive 2011 heavy duty pickup in my eyes. Meanwhile Dodge is the best looking truck by far to me over Ford and Chevy but if I'm buying a 2011 I want a truck with urea injection as it seems to significantly improve fuel economy, so that's a strike against Dodge to me. Meanwhile I live in the Northeast where there's a lot of snow, and GM has had some serious issues with their Duramax in the snow so if that hasn't been totally addressed for 2011 then that's a big strike against them to me. So I guess what I'm saying is Ford, GM or Chrysler can jump up and down shouting horsepower numbers or towing numbers or mpg numbers whatever and those numbers don't mean a darn thing by themselves. The only FACT is that there is NO BEST PICKUP on the market. There may be a best pickup for Lt CHEG, and a best pickup for DMace and a best pickup for Diamond Pilot etc. etc. and most likely they are not the same truck. To me arguing numbers over any one vehicle proves little, especially considering just how capable and impressive each company's trucks are. I honestly don't let any person's brand preference or their defense of the same bother me, and it's sad to see people getting angry over the subject. I've had good luck with GM products but I have NO loyalty in this day and age, just like no company has any loyalty to me. I'll buy what's best for me regardless of whether there's a bow tie, a blue oval or horns on the front of the truck and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if that truck isn't the best truck for anyone else.

Very well said. Can't we all just get along? :laughing:
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #38  
You guys need more ratios in your trucks:
For example the new ZF 8HP 8 speed automatic
ZF Friedrichshafen AG | 8-speed automatic transmission

Or the new 7 speed dual clutch transmission, that combines the fuel efficiency of a direct drive manual, to the comfort of an automatic.
ZF Friedrichshafen AG | 7-speed dual-clutch transmission

Or for the heavier Diesel pickups, an automated synchro ZF AS-tronic with 12 speeds ;)
http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/products/innovations/as_tronic/low_consumption/low_consumption.html

It would at least make all axle ratio vs. fuel consumption debates needless. ;)
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #39  
first off i am a GM man. and i do have some biases. i also have a 94 F350 with 265,000 still running strong that seems to never break down. the 94 is a truck Ford got right. it could use a little more power but i think would do even better with more gears. when upgrading last time from the 3500 D/A 4x4 chevy i went with the chevy 4500. i did test a ford F550 and for my needs the Chevy did better. the reasons were as follows. Chevy has a 5:13 rear end and i tow heavy. most of my towing is local and 2 lane highways here in the mountains so a higher cruising speed wasn't needed. the chevy was the heavier truck in weight. this makes a diffrence when towing on steep gravel roads. i am usually towing 6 tons so a 6 ton truck has better traction than a 4 1/2-5 ton truck. i can't recite the physics on that. i will say on a steep hill breaking loose is scary. i also was extremely impressed with the duramax/allison combo as i had no issues with it in a previous truck. Ford was still trying to live down the 6.0. dodge never entered the equation although the cummins is a fine engine. at the time dodge had no medium duties on the used market. have been very pleased with the 4500, it has been an overachiever. when towing 9 tons back from S.C. i was able to maintain 70 mph up the saluda grade and over sams gap on interstate 26. i ended up backing off to 65 to take it easier. coming down the Tennesse side i was able to dab the break once at the top of the mountain and let the engine braking do the rest. each of the big three is a making amazing trucks now compared to just a few years back. as much as i like mine i can see why others might prefer the smaller cab medium duties. for some the other brands may fit better. it really means very little as long as the truck delivers for the owner.
 
/ Duramax towing MPG #40  
i noticed something that nobody else seems to have...

if you cut it back from 65 to 55, you get WAYYYYYYY better mileage.:laughing:

my old cummins is a beater, but it always gets me there... 18 if i'm in a blind panic, 24 if i take my time.

towing 13/17
 

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