Double Your Bota, Double Your Fun

[Harv]

Best Father's Day ever! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

The family's treat for me was to say, "Go play on your tractor all day!".

Didn't want to hurt their feelings, so I had no choice but to spend over 6 hours hauling, lifting, scraping, pushing and just plain joy-riding around the 42 acres. Spent most of that time opening up some old grown-over back roads and blazing a couple of new ones.

At one point the guy next door heard me and came out to say hello. He then got the idea that we should get together and push this big hunk o' oak that had fallen on our mutual fence. I was actually getting ready to chainsaw the thing into firewood, but his idea sounded like more fun. Knowing a Kodak moment when I hear one, I set up the camera and took the attached shot.

First time we'd had his B2150 next to my L2500, and before it was over, we had developed some new respect for each other's machines. He had been somewhat envious of the size, weight and power of my little L, but we soon decided he not only had the right tractor for his needs, but it was actually better than mine in some important ways.

During the tree push, I was impressed at the power and maneuverability of his Bota. And when he asked me to follow him onto his property for another chore, I learned some REAL lessons about the different models. Right off the bat, he dropped his machine down a small, steep slope which ended in a sharp right turn. I started to follow, but was quicky overcome by the pucker factor. The slope was more than I was comfortable with to start with, and the sharp right at the bottom had me at a 15-degree side tilt before I was half way through it. I backed off and tried to find a new angle, but eventually gave up and found a longer, flatter route.

When we got to his "chore" (transporting a pile of old lumber with my bucket forks), I again got uncomfortable with the tight quarters right next to a steep dropoff. I told him I couldn't maneuver in that tight space and convinced him to try out my forks on his 2150. That worked out much better, and I wound up following him with a bucket full of smaller stuff.

The road he took me on had more up-slopes and side slopes that kept my eyes glued to my tiltmeters. His little machine was clearly more stable and handled the terrain with ease. No question in my mind that he has a lower center of gravity, and uses it to his advantage.

My hat's off to the 2150 and all of the "smaller" tractors out there. Another clear case of having the right tool for the right job.

 

[ddl]

An interesting item to compare is the number of hours each of you have with your tractors. The more you use your tractor the more you realize what you(your tractor) can do.

Dan L

 

[jinman]

From the producer of "Gorillas In The Mist" comes a new exciting production, "Kubotas In The Woods." /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

Gene Siskel rates this production: "It's two FELs up in my book. I was riveted to my seat and choked by the dust and diesel fumes. What realism! What noise! Look out for those 'bota driving CA boys."

It sounds like an excellent Father's Day adventure to me too, Harv./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

JimI

 

[Alan L.]

Boy I like those bucket forks. What would a pair of those cost, and are they easy to put on / take off?

Alan L., TX

 

[Harv]

<font color=blue>The more you use your tractor the more you realize what you(your tractor) can do.</font color=blue>

I think I hear what you're saying, Dan, but are you suggesting I take my tractor beyond 15 degress just to see what happens? /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif I think that's a thrill I'll leave to somebody else.

And thanks for the movie review, Jim. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Didn't realize we had that kind of coverage. But let me take this opportunity to thank all the little people who made this possible..... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

As for the bucket forks, Alan -- this question comes up a lot. Maybe Muhammad will have a chapter in his next book that covers this information. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I guess I gave my most detailed answers in this post. The picture that used to go along with it is here.

 

[ddl]

The question is not the slope of the hill but the knowledge of wheather a slope is too steep or is the slope safe. Did you ask him why he took his tractor on such a "steep Slope". I think an operator of a tractor needs to learn what his tractor can do more than rely on other devices. Not because other devices may mislead you, but that if you learn to feel your tractor between your legs, you will know what to do if you find yourself in an uneasy position. And it will happen if you operate your tractor enough.

Dan L

 

[john_bud]

<font color=blue>are you suggesting I take my tractor beyond 15 degress just to see what happens? </font color=blue>

Harv, It may sound crazy, but some folks actually do test their equipment to the level beyond pucker! I would only suggest it if you took safety precautions like chaining the tractor so it could only go over so far. Let us know how far you tilted before it went over!

John Bud

 

[glennmac]

I was on a trivial hill the other week and when I turned my tiltmeter registered slightly over 20 degrees for the first time ever. I just sat there for a while, hardly breathing, and then backed up out of the situation. Obviously, the tractor didnt tip. I wouldnt voluntarily go to 20 degrees again, even though I dont think my tractor would tip even at 30 degrees.

 

[Harv]

John, Glenn (why am I suddenly thinking about astronauts?) -

I am sure over time I will discover more about the limits of my tractor, hopefully without serious incident. My pucker limit for side tilt still seems to coincide with the 15 degree mark on my tiltmeter, and I doubt I will challenge that on purpose any time in the near future.

But I would like to pose a more physics-based question to youse guys and the general readership out there. My original post on this thread implied that the B2150 seemed more stable than my L2500. As I looked the two tractors side by side, my eyeballs told me that the 'B' had a lower center of gravity than the 'L'. Has anybody come up with any facts and/or figures to support this observation? Might be of interest to potential buyers.

 

[hayden]

Harv,

It's really not possible to say for sure unless you are kubota. But, I think some comparisons are possible.

For example, if the tire track (wheel width) is the same on both tractors, but one stand higher, it's center of gravity is most likely higher. SImilarly, if they stand at about the same height, but one has a wider track, the wider track is likely to be more stable.

Where things get confusing is when you change both the track and stance. To really answer the question, you need to know the actual center of gravity in the block of iron we call a tractor. Then you can figure the real difference as you move it around with different tires etc., but Kubota doesn't publish that info as far as I know.

Are your rear tires loaded? That makes a BIG difference in stability.

 

[ddl]

glenmac
What is a trivial hill? This is the problem that I have with tilt meters is that for safety the tractor companies say after this slope, the chance of tipping has increased. You need to know the slope before you go on the hill. Now since you saw your tractor didnot tip at 20 degrees, you will probaly have less fear on any slope less than 20 degrees. But that is bad for as you drive across this slope and for some reason the wheel tips or you turn the steering wheel too fast and you start to tip. I still believe it is better to know your tractor and ground than spend your time reading a meter. The question I had for Harv was why did the other guy go where he did not go. It would still be interesting to find the answer.

Dan L

 

[Harv]

Hayden -

Yes, my rear tires are loaded and I always carry a heavy implement as low as I can on the the 3pt. Interestingly, the neighbor rarely has anything on the back of his when he's toodling around on the hills.

Also, I should think that 'L's in general have a wider track than the 'B's, but I'm speaking out of pure ignorance. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

And Dan -

<font color=blue> why did the other guy go where he did not go</font color=blue>

That was my first time on his property with my tractor. He obviously knows all the contours and slopes like the back of his hand and was driving over stuff he had been on many, many times already. Some of the turns were simply too tight for me to make, regardless of slope. On the down-slope and sharp right thing, my bucket was in the dirt at normal cruising height. With the side tilt already at the uncomfortable stage for me, I had no desire to raise my bucket and continue.

Now, not to cast aspersions on the fella, but at one point he was maneuvering his machine on the very brink of a 10-foot precipice above the area where the ground had been carved out to make a flat spot for his garage. Nothing but a dirt face with no retaining wall of any kind. He would gingerly back up until his rear tires were literally kicking dirt over the edge and scarcely looked over his shoulder. When he beckoned me to come assist him, I politely refused.

When I asked him why he chose to not wear his seat belt, he said he knew his tractor so well, it wasn't necessary. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif I hope to god that doesn't turn out to be famous last words.

Another not-quite-related anecdote -- at one point he asked me what that brightly colored triangle was that I had mounted on the back of my tractor. When I explained about the SMV placard, he chuckled and shook his head in a condescending manner and said that was one waste of time. Did I mention he has been part of the local police force for many years?

Anyway, if it appears that Harv is chicken, Harv is a wimp or Harv is a total tractor neophyte, what can I say? I am all of that and more. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>Anyway, if it appears that Harv is chicken, Harv is a wimp or Harv is a total tractor neophyte, what can I say?</font color=blue>

Harv, you may be all that, but I'd also add that you have more brains and will likely live longer, too./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I always figured if you ever get over being scared of that tractor, it just might kill you.

Bird

 

[GlueGuy]

Harv,

After reading that last post, I am reminded of a saying I heard from my first flight instructor:

"There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots." /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Stick with what you know.

The GlueGuy

 

[Boondox]

Hey Harv, what's all that green stuff in the background? Last time I was in California everything was brown except the parks. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Pete

www.GatewayToVermont.com

 

[Harv]

Pete -

The only way we can tell the seasons here in California is by the color of the terrain. We have green season, brown season, orange season and then one where everything gets all wet. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

 

[Boondox]

In Vermont it's Winter, Mud Season, Bug Season, Foliage Season and Stick Season when all the leaves fall of and all that's left are sticks pointing at the clouds.

Right now we're in the middle of Bug Season and they about carried me off yesterday! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

Pete

www.GatewayToVermont.com

 

[patrickg]

Amen!

I can't agree with the idea, previously expressed in this forum and in this thread but not worded exactly as I am about to do so, that you should go with your feelings regarding tilt safety. People "get used" to doing things that are just plain unsafe. FAMILIARITY BREEDS CONTEMPT Track width, wheel base and height of CG don't care how you feel. Subjective measures are patently unsafe when employed in issues involving safety. Recall the saying, "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are few old bold pilots. I think tractorin' is a parallel.

Ask Harv what he thinks of the idea of ignoring the dive tables and staying at some depth (don't use a gauge, just subjective "FEEL") for some time (don't use a watch or botom timer, just subjective feel) and then coming to the surface however fast seems like a good idea at the time (don't use a decompression computer, or tables, or not out run the smaller bubbles, or anything). I know what they call those guys, B E N T (slang for getting the bends).

It is patently unsafe to rely on an emotionally modulated safety standard. If you are feeling great, invincible ready to slay dragons you might exceed the tilt that would otherwise set off your pucker factor alarm.

Due to liability concerns Kubota is quiet on the topic of "SAFE TILT ANGLES" as is our friendly tilt meter maker.
Empirical data is needed. Any volunteers to video themselves at ever increasing tilt angles until they fall over like the guy in the rainsuit on the trike on "Rowin and Martin's Laugh In"? I thought not. (Under 40?, ignore laugh in reference or ask someone with more grey in his beard.)

If I had the means at hand and some free time, I would rig a safety chain to keep the rear axle from raising more than a few inches and tilt my L4610 untill it started to lift a wheel and measure the angle. THEN I sure as he-- wouldn't get close to that tilt in actual use. Similarly I could do that front to rear with nose high and nose low variants. Ballast, implements FEL, etc. would have much larger effect front to rear but would still introduce variability side to side as well.

Of course this would only determine the "NEVER EXCEED" angles for the particular configuration of implement, weights, driver weight, etc. In practice tractors are rough riding bouncy things that would most generally roll over if you ever got particularly close to the "STATIC" max tilt angle. The safe angle in use (dynamic situation) would always be less than the statically determined angle.

If anyone tries to make any measurements of this nature, be careful, very careful. If some of the engineering talent available on this board were put to this task they could probably make measurements of weight shift at tilts far below the tilt over angles and compute fairly closely what the ultimate angle would be without getting close to a roll over.
I think you could compute the CG by parking the left (or right) tires on scales at the feed store or wherever and jacking the opposite side of the tractor up. Record the measured weight increase vs the tilt angle up to maybe 10-15 degrees (something definitely safely away from a roll over). That's it. I think the rest is math. This should give the CG. If your tractor were square, same track width front and rear and probably same tire size you could compute max tilt angle before, in theory, the tractor would be ballanced on just two wheels. The data will likely plot as a curve so don't just measure two angles and interpolate or extrapolate.

The experiment should be repeated nose up and nose down as well. Since most of our tractors are not square, the math is probably a tad tougher on the side to side calcs. Anyway this should be easy enough to do and be pretty safe if using good shop practices when jacking it up. I bet someone could do this in 10-15 minutes if the feed store guy was alert and got the series of weight measurements recorded to coincide with your series of angles. The angle could be measured with a plumb bob and a protractor. That's all for now kids. Gee Mr. Wizard, what we gonna do next week?

Patrick

 

[patrickg]

BUG SEASON!!!! I turned off the computer last night to escape large beatles that were bouncing off my head, the screen, keyboard, etc. I killed six or eight and then gave up and switched off. Computer is in middle of 70x35 shop with 14x14 roll up doors at each end open for air. Only light was the screen and outside the moon and fireflys. I quess the tractor net is more interesting to these "Heavy Bomber Beatles" than fireflys, the moon or my wife.

Still you have four seasons. Poor folks in North Dakota have to get by on three, July, August, and winter. You know what they do in ND on the fourth of July? Well, If it coincides with summer they celebrate!

I spent three winters in Minot, ND where the chamber of comerce's slogan is "Why not Minot?"

Management by exception... go with the short list, WHY MINOT??

Patrick