Dogbone question

gsxr1100 · Feb 18, 2005

Junkman
I hate to say it, but 75% Eukanuba have Chicken By-Products as ingredient #1 or #2 and several Eukanuba has corn meal as ingredient #2....sure, good food.

Chicken By-Products: dry, ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines -- exclusive of feathers except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices.

(looks like a good food) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Never mind Eukanuba has no Omega-3 or 6 Fatty Acids, endless fillers (corn) & Mixed Tocopherols (bad).

Strong points.... where? Also these are FACTS, not my opinion. There are stated on the bags or online if you do somehome work.

Maybe you like by-products in their food, I sure don't.

PS. I do not know much about oils, I pick up new stuff everyday. It is called concurrent learning...never stops.

Junkman · Feb 18, 2005

As I said, I will not let this become a ongoing debate.... feed your dog whatever you like..... it doesn't matter to me and I could care less..... Just like all your posts about oil..... you are never wrong and you will argue till you chase everyone else away.... Sorry, I am not going to go down that road with you!!!!!!

gsxr1100 · Feb 18, 2005

junk- I am just saying that people need to watch what they feed there dogs (bones or food).

Please feel free to PM me since all the info I have (all online! )show Iams/Eukanuba/Science Diet...not any good at all. I would not feed these foods to dogs I hate..I would call PETA! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

If you like selling and feeding necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines to people dogs or your own...whatever. I would not be proud to sell such a food.

Chase away..LOL I go by facts junkman. Again, junk food in my book. You can go down the Eukanuba and I will take the better food route. All this info is online, and it is free.

Cactus · Feb 19, 2005

My dogs chew on bones all the time....I have a friend who processes deer and I brought home a truck load of deer scraps and threw them over the bank bones and all 3 months ago and the dogs and cats are still dragging bones around and chewing on them. Never give it a second thought....But of course I don't pamper animals too much...just make sure they have plenty of feed and water and they will be alright.....

Cactus · Feb 19, 2005

( Dogs chewing on bones will also wear there teeth down quickly )

Say what ???

Freds · Feb 19, 2005

( ...and am the longest selling Iams/Eukanuba dealer on the East Coast. Junk..... )

You didn't notice a change in the food a few years back after Proctor Gamble bought them out? Several people I converse with had to stop feeding it as their kennel food because boarding dogs stopped doing well on it. I was under the impression that they had changed their ingredients around and all a dog food has to do is slap a "new improved flavor" sticker on the bag, so many people were unaware of the changes that P-G had wanted to benefit their shareholders.

I will say that it is better than the other foods you mentioned and many dogs do OK on it. Of course, many dogs do OK on Ol Roy, too.
Most of my customers have switched to Canidae and have have noticed a healthier appearing dog. Glossier coat, no more hot spots, bald spots disappearing, feed less, increased energy level. I try to stay away from kibble that swells as much as theirs does when it gets wet, too.

I don't want to get into a dog food debate either, but am curious if you did notice a change in the food, JM.

slydog · Feb 19, 2005

I feed my chow/shepherd Eagle Pack. Our Siamese, Himilayan cats get IAMS hairball. Our Siamese is slim and sveldt, and our little Himilayan mix stray went from starvation to as a fat as a little butterball on the IAMs. We love it for the cats, and they love it. One of the best points of IAMS, is the litter box smell is reduced DRASTICALLY by feeding them the IAMS. I don't care if it's made from plutonium and pea gravel if it keeps them healthy and they don't stink. If my animals had to rely on me preparing chicken parts for them, they'd starve to death. I prefer the scoop, dump and go method. I would prefer to feed them gound up PETA people however. Does anyone know where i can buy that?

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Junkman · Feb 19, 2005

( You didn't notice a change in the food a few years back after Proctor Gamble bought them out? )

From all the information that I have ever been able to garner, there has been no changes in formula for a number of years preceding the buy out and none after the buy out. We had old packaging in the form of empty bags for display purposes and compared the ingredients and analysis when all this controversy started and couldn't find any changes to either. Canadae is also a very good food and we also sell a lot of that. Wellness is another good brand of food. The one thing that people don't understand or want to understand, is that not all dogs do well eating the same brands. That means that if my dog does well on XYZ food, it doesn't mean that your dog will do the same. There are a lot of small brands of pet foods out there and many of them are good foods. I can remember the Ethoxiquine debate of the 1980's and where & how that fiasco evolved. In the end, none of the claims of problems were ever proved and the 2 headed dogs born without tails were never presented when asked to see pictures or other proof. Have you ever heard about Ole Roy Disease? I have, but when asking for any substantiation, none ever came about. Is there such a thing as Ole Roy Disease? I don't know, but no one that I have ever asked has ever seen a case of it, but the stories still abound. Just like chicken feet, and feathers in the foods. If these foods are so poor, then how do they stay in the market place and why don't we have malnutrition dogs abounding and filling up the hospital wards? If you really want to learn about the quality of the pet food, then ask for the digestible calories of the food. There is only one company that I know of that has that information and they don't publish it to the general public. That is the true analysis of pet foods. I remember a Science Diet ad in the 1970's that showed a pair of old shoes, motor oil, and some other items that were not digestible, but when ground up, had a very impressive analysis of protein, fat, etc. Figures don't lie, but lier's do figure. Possibly someone here would like to bring up Abady Pet food made of Menhaden Fish Meal????? I can also remember when they were raked over the coals for there ingredients. I also can remember when horse meat came in cans to feed the dogs and some people felt that it was the best that you could do for your dog and others thought it was the cruelest thing that could happen to a horse. I also remember when people ate horse meat and lamb was cheaper than the horse meat.

gsxr1100 · Feb 19, 2005

Some figures to go by so no one can lie here. There are about 10,000 others sites that state the same thing. Not rocket science.

http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=comp-wiz

Menhaden Fish Meal (Menhaden are not used for human food but for oil used in paints, soaps, and lubricants ) is also in Wellness foods and many others.

I agree that not every dog is good on all the same foods. But for starters cut the fillers and junk out. That leaves a very small amount of foods to select that are good for your dog.

Also all this talk about foods 30+ years ago. I would hope that these foods have progressed in 30+ years.

( Just like chicken feet, and feathers in the foods. If these foods are so poor, then how do they stay in the market place and why don't we have malnutrition dogs abounding and filling up the hospital wards?) )

You expect people to REALLY read the bags of foods when they can just ask their vet (that PUSHS ) some other food? Most people think that if the vet uses it, it MUST be good! I know that Flint River is probably the best but do you think someone person is going to pay $55+ for a bag..don’t think so.

Most people will not even bother and just go by what people say. It is easier to do that then really learn something. Most people do not even know or care what is in the food.

Also just because the dog lives on the food does not mean the dog is fine, food is perfect or that there are not any other foods that are better. I used to feed Iams to my labs (before) and then learned some facts on dog foods.

I know in my rotties and pits the corn meal in your wonderful Eukanuba makes then have ear problems and skin rashes. Again, I want a food that does not have fillers, Chicken Byproduct, Mixed Tocopherols, HAS Probiotics , has Chelated Minerals & has Vegetables. Also want fatty acids & Vitamin E.

So far with my list, Iams out, Eukanuba out, Science Diet out, Nutro out and many others. These all have by-products, corn meals (They are often difficult to digest & to use by the body.) and many other poor items.

Then the By-products that are a crappy protein source. I could go on and on about this but you know the drill.

My “in list” is Canadae, Flint river, a few Old Mother Hubbard and CALIFORNIA NATURAL. Doing more homework I went down to 2.

I worked for Agway and I know how and why they pushed certain foods. Are they good maybe, but compared to a better foods, they are poor. My wife works for them now; she is a buyer for the northeast. I know the game it is not quality either.

When some of the foods step-up to a better level email me and maybe I will re-think the idea. I must see the ingredients fist. So far you know the ones that are out.

Freds · Feb 19, 2005

Thanks for the response.
I wish they WOULD publish all the pertinent info on various dogfoods. I know the digestibilty in Canidae is 86%, but I had to call them to find out. That's pretty good for a kibble.

RayH · Feb 21, 2005

While the "dog people" are here. I have a question. I remember at some point in my life that someone told me not to change dog food brands, keep my dog on the same food (similar to the "never use a different oil" rule). My dog is 11 years old and doing fine. I change his food just about every bag (monthly). I either change brands or just products within a brand. He seems to get tired or bored with his food after a while, when we get a new kind of food for him, he is always more enthusiastic about it. The only thing wrong with him is he has dry skin and hotspots but different foods dont seem to effect that. I may try Canidae next. I havent seem that around here though.

gsxr1100 · Feb 21, 2005

You can use any food. My pits can be switched instantly, my rotties (wimps) need to have it done slowly since there stomachs are sensitive. The dog will tell you if the stomach digestive can handle it.

As a general rule-of-thumb. Keep in mind "general" here, I would do it slowly.

PS. The rule for did not switch is as good as man will never fly to the moon. Even better are the general rules for feeding on the bags. Now that is a joke.

We use Canidae and Flint River. I feel after doing the homework and asking a vet in the family, these are the best you can get. I would not tell anyother to use the others I have noted in posts above. My boys do not have flakes any more, no rashes, no ear infections, no licking the feet due to poor fatty acids etc...Plus, less "#2" to pick up!

Freds · Feb 21, 2005

By switching foods that often I think you are creating a finicky eater, or at 11 years old, you may already have, but I wouldn't be too concerned about it at that age. Find a good food and stick with it and realize that appetites change, especially with age.

I feel any dog without known stomach sensitivity issues can be switched to a quality food cold turkey without any problems. I've done it to my own three when my Presa developed a hot spot on her back that I didn't notice until I was brushing her and I've done it to my boarders when their owners forget to bring food. If you were going to get a loose stool problem it would happen in a boarding dog that may already be feeling a little stressed. Hasn't happened yet and I feed Canidae if you already haven't figured that out /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif. I feed half rations for one day then up to to a normal amount, which is going to be less than an inferior food.

BTW, when my Presa had her hot spot, along with switching to Canidae, I mixed a conncoction of: 1 crushed aspirin, 1/2c of rubbing alcohol and 1c very strong tea (I used 4 bags and let it steep for a while). I dabbed this on the hot spot twice/day and she had hair growing back within a month.
Worked for me, but use at your own risk...

edit: forgot to add... apply cold and refridgerate.

Junkman · Feb 21, 2005

When people ask this question, I always suggest moving to the new food gradually. Mix the new and old at a 50/50 rate when the old food is about 75% used up. That makes the transition easier on there system. Some dogs change foods better than others. My dogs get a variety of broken bags and Canadea if there are no broken bags. With all this talk of which food is better, I have never seen a malnutrition dog that had enough food to eat no matter what brand it was. The only time my dogs ever refused to eat something was when I told the ex that her Swedish meatballs didn't taste quite right. She got angry and said that if I wouldn't eat them she would give them to the dogs. Each dog put one in its mouth and quickly dropped it and walked away. Even they knew when not to eat something that bad. We parted shortly there after and split the dogs between us. Everyone was sad after that, me, she, and the dogs. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

RayH · Feb 21, 2005

( By switching foods that often I think you are creating a finicky eater, or at 11 years old, you may already have, but I wouldn't be too concerned about it at that age. Find a good food and stick with it and realize that appetites change, especially with age.

I feel any dog without known stomach sensitivity issues can be switched to a quality food cold turkey without any problems. I've done it to my own three when my Presa developed a hot spot on her back that I didn't notice until I was brushing her and I've done it to my boarders when their owners forget to bring food. If you were going to get a loose stool problem it would happen in a boarding dog that may already be feeling a little stressed. Hasn't happened yet and I feed Canidae if you already haven't figured that out /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif. I feed half rations for one day then up to to a normal amount, which is going to be less than an inferior food.

BTW, when my Presa had her hot spot, along with switching to Canidae, I mixed a conncoction of: 1 crushed aspirin, 1/2c of rubbing alcohol and 1c very strong tea (I used 4 bags and let it steep for a while). I dabbed this on the hot spot twice/day and she had hair growing back within a month.
Worked for me, but use at your own risk...

edit: forgot to add... apply cold and refridgerate. )

I may have to try your concoction.
Hes not really a "finicky" eater, my wife says hes a "thin eater". We leave food in his bowl and he will come to it throughout the day and snack on it. Ive always been able to leave a constant supply of food for him, he's never been overweight, right at 45-50lbs since he was a year old and he switches food real good, no digestive issues at all. He actually seems to prefer change.

Freds · Feb 21, 2005

( We parted shortly there after and split the dogs between us. Everyone was sad after that, me, she, and the dogs )

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I imagine especially the dog that had to go with her, unless she stopped making swedish meatballs... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Junkman · Feb 21, 2005

He died shortly there after when her new boyfriend took her and the dog camping and the dog ate poisoned mushrooms. I never forgave her for that stupidity, because if she had kept the dog fed at his usual time, he wouldn't put anything in his mouth except for dog food and water buffalo sandals (his favorite thing to chew) for those that are old enough to remember them.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif