does stalling out hurt your tractor

[meb9796]

I just finished putting 60' fence post in the ground over the past month and had a question re the tractor stalling. I'm using a Leinback 7200jr on a JD2305, and and about every 3-4 hole it will stall (I dig with it at idle) when it hits a large rock. Usually it takes two or three tries to get it out so I can remove the rock and I was wondering if all that stalling is hurting the tractor. I put in 30 holes this Satruday, and cut the grass for about 1.5 hrs on Sunday. I noticed that it seemed to idle a little 'louder' than it used to, but besides that, it ran fine. I just changed the oil, greased it up, and checked everything before I started the fence project, but was wondering if there was something I could/should do because of all the stalling.

 

[Soundguy]

Constant lugging down to a stall is not a healthy pastime for an engine.. I wouldn't make a habit of it.

soundguy

 

[JiminGa]

I wouldn't run any pto attachment at idle either...it's just not designed to work that way. The 2305 has to be running just about wide open to hit 540 pto speed.

 

[have_blue]

Constant lugging down to a stall is not a healthy pastime for an engine.. I wouldn't make a habit of it.

soundguy

You've got that right!

I would only add that an occasional quick stall is probably not as harmful as constant lugging, where you could get heat and pressure build up.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I wouldn't run any pto attachment at idle either...it's just not designed to work that way. The 2305 has to be running just about wide open to hit 540 pto speed.

If he runs his post hole digger at the 540 pto speed, I think that he will have much bigger problems. I think that a lot of people run their pto post hole diggers at idle or just above an idle for safety reasons. I know that I do.

 

[Soundguy]

That has no bearing on the prime issue of whether constantly lugging a tractor down to a stall is hurting it.. which the answer is yes..

Perhaps he should invest in a slip clutch!.. Or a hyd powered auger with a generous relief, and a reverse setting..

soundguy

 

[3RRL]

That has no bearing on the prime issue of whether constantly lugging a tractor down to a stall is hurting it.. which the answer is yes..

Perhaps he should invest in a slip clutch!.. Or a hyd powered auger with a generous relief, and a reverse setting..

soundguy

On subject, a slip clutch is a good suggestion if the shear bolt is not shearing.
It wouldn't hurt to run the PHD a tad faster though, but not wide open. I run mine pretty close to idle but I have a 55hp tractor.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

That has no bearing on the prime issue of whether constantly lugging a tractor down to a stall is hurting it.. which the answer is yes..

Perhaps he should invest in a slip clutch!.. Or a hyd powered auger with a generous relief, and a reverse setting..

soundguy

Your right, it has nothing to do with the original question. Just that he did this while using his post hole digger. and then was told that he should not be doing that at an idle, but to reach 540 pto speed it should be at near full throttle. Now to me it sounded like he was being advised to use his auger at the 540 pto speed which could lead to a disaster. But then I must have just taken that post wrong, I seem to be very safety conscious lately. Maybe he should get himself a slip clutch like you suggest so as not to do any damage to his engine.

 

[dtd24]

I don't run mine at the full 540 either, really takes a toll on shear pins that way. I run it about half way and hardly ever stall her out.

 

[shvl73]

If he runs his post hole digger at the 540 pto speed, I think that he will have much bigger problems. I think that a lot of people run their pto post hole diggers at idle or just above an idle for safety reasons. I know that I do.

I do the same. My old digger will also stall the tractor occasionally and I've been meaning to rehab it and put in a proper shear pin. I can't imagine the stalling is good for the tractor at all, even at idle, though I'd be more concerned with stress to the pto. It doesn't really lug at all, just a quick grab of a rock and then stall.

 

[wedge40]

It sounds like the shear pin isn't doing its job. Running the PHD at higher RPM might create the extra stress required to snap the shear pin instead of stalling the tractor. I agree the easiest thing would be to get a slip clutch installed.

Wedge

 

[Soundguy]

Your right, it has nothing to do with the original question. Just that he did this while using his post hole digger. and then was told that he should not be doing that at an idle, but to reach 540 pto speed it should be at near full throttle. Now to me it sounded like he was being advised to use his auger at the 540 pto speed which could lead to a disaster. But then I must have just taken that post wrong, I seem to be very safety conscious lately. Maybe he should get himself a slip clutch like you suggest so as not to do any damage to his engine.

I don't see any post suggesting he runn at full tilt.

I do see one post saying to not run at idle, then int he next sentence the poster said what it took to reach full pto speed on THEIR tractor.

I didn't take that as a sugestion to run at full tilt.. but rather to not specifically run at idle.. As other have said.. you can get away with a lil more than idel and be safe.. there are plenty of other mitigating factors as well.. like the slip clutch... though it will have to be set to slip low.. IE.. at lower than the tractors hp rating at whatver slow rpm is being used.. etc..

soundguy

 

[patrick_g]

Idle is too slow to work a small tractor engine. But... if the diggin' is easy it might not be much work. I run anywhere from idle to about 2600 RPM (PTO speed) but reserve the higher speeds for special purposes like tossing dirt shavings farther away from the hole. I don't dig at high RPM. I raise the 3PH control to stop digging progress then rev up and raise the 3PH to toss shavings farther from the hole. I don't actually dig over about 1800RPM and usually slower.

Under about 1700RPM is not good for working the engine. These RPM comments are for a 40 PTO HP Kubota Diesel. Maybe other brands are happy and safe putting out generous levels of torque at slower speeds but I'd confirm that with reference to a manual before I made it a habit.

Pat

 

[meb9796]

Thanks for the responses guys. Sounds like I should've been running it slightly higher than idle. The first hole I did, I had it higher than idle and broke a shear pin in less than 2' of dirt. After that, I ran it at idle and only did 12" or less at a time and rose brought the auger up and then went back down to finish digging. Again, I've done almost 60 3' deep holes with a 12" auger and haven't had a problem. If it stalled, I would just turn the tractor back on, raise the rpm's to 1,500, and then start raising the 3ph and then turn on the pto, and 9 out of 10 times, it would come loose. Only occasionally would it stall out again and I would raise the rmp's a bit more and then try again until it came loose.

I really doubt if I could even dig a hole if I ran it at the 540 pto speed that is normal for FEL and mowing work. That thing jumps around enough when I first hit the ground, that I can only imagine what it would do if I hit the ground at full pto speed

But my question still remains , what should I check on my tractor after all that stalling (about 30-40 times total over the past month).

thanks again for all the responses, I love this forum!!!!!

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I don't see any post suggesting he runn at full tilt.

I do see one post saying to not run at idle, then int he next sentence the poster said what it took to reach full pto speed on THEIR tractor.

I didn't take that as a sugestion to run at full tilt.. but rather to not specifically run at idle.. As other have said.. you can get away with a lil more than idel and be safe.. there are plenty of other mitigating factors as well.. like the slip clutch... though it will have to be set to slip low.. IE.. at lower than the tractors hp rating at whatver slow rpm is being used.. etc..

soundguy

Well, like I said, I must have interpreted the post wrong.

 

[patrick_g]

I really doubt if I could even dig a hole if I ran it at the 540 pto speed that is normal for FEL and mowing work. That thing jumps around enough when I first hit the ground, that I can only imagine what it would do if I hit the ground at full pto speed

Place the auger in contact with the ground before exceeding idle speed to sort of create a de facto axle for the rotating mass. Doing this will help elliminate the wild gyrations that, although entertaining to observers not monetarily connected to the equipment nor related by blood or marriage to the operator, nevertheless could conceivably get out of control and cause a problem.

Pat

 

[have_blue]

Place the auger in contact with the ground before exceeding idle speed to sort of create a de facto axle for the rotating mass. Doing this will help elliminate the wild gyrations that, although entertaining to observers not monetarily connected to the equipment nor related by blood or marriage to the operator, nevertheless could conceivably get out of control and cause a problem.

Pat

I used a 16" auger a while back, and after some experimentation, learned to use it just as you said. I'm glad you qualified that "entertaining" part. My buddy was laughing at me, but I was sitting there bouncing, and having visions of my PTO exploding.

 

[patrick_g]

Bob, Glad nothing too exciting happened.

I have a 9 inch and a 12 inch auger for my PHD but haven't used a 16 inch. If the digging were at all hard I'd be afraid of shearing lots of shear bolts with a 16. My PHD, a SPEECO which seems to be more or less typical in design, uses the same shear bolt attachment irrespective of the diameter of the auger. I have "worn out" and then sheared the bolt a few times. Although a harder bolt is tempting I have managed to stay the course with the soft ones it is supposed to use.

Since the shear bolt's "radius of attachment" is the same for different sized augers, the larger the auger the more torque (circumferential shearing force) involved.

I think the torque requirement goes up, at least, with the area of the end of the drilled out cylinder and it seems there should be an additional load factor related to the area of the cylindrical walls due to friction. While actually boring dirt there is probably a figure for the volume swept out per unit time too but if you aren't super speed drilling that is probably negligible.

Up sizing from 9 inch to 12 inch should increase the torgue by a factor of (12*12) / (9*9) or 144/81 which is 1.777...7
So going from 9 to 12 inch ups the torque about 78%. Going from 9 inch to 16 inch increases torgue to about 3.2 times as much. Going from 12 inch to 16 inch is a 78% increase too.

Since I shear bolts at a manageable but not insignificant rate using the 12 inch auger with no roots or rocks, I think a 16 inch auger would be prone to shearing bolts pretty quickly in my setup. It would be EASY to use a harder bolt but then that would defeat the purpose of having a shear bolt as then the U-joints would be the weak link and shear bolts are way easier to change and cheaper too than U-joints (or PTO parts.)

Pat

 

[Egon]

The chances are there is nothing to check after stalling the tractor. If your battery is not in the best condition too many successive stalls may run it down sufficiently that it will not turn the starter. You'll get that "err err" sound heard in cold country come cold season!

 

[chumly2071]

Stalling the engine is a lot bigger problem for engines with turbochargers. if you stall it and the turbo is spinning at any kind of speed, you have stopped the flow of oil to the bearings. Can lead to a bad day for the wallet. With my diesel turbo engines, I always try to let them idle, even if for only a short time, to let the speed come down on the turbo and the exhaust gas temps come down as well.