Dock strike/Toilet paper shortage??

[Oaktree]

Old time American unions seem kind of hide bound. I like the German model where the union is on the board and in on major decisions, representing the employees. It's not as adversarial as old time American unions but very successful for both employees and companies. (it doesn't prevent companies like VW from making stupid decisions though).

It's funny how people complain about union bosses having nice houses but don't complain about the CEO buying his fifth house and the COO his fourth house. That money was pay the employees didn't get, even though they made it possible.

Keep in mind though that many executive's salaries are tied to some sort of performance, whether it be stock price, profit or something else. Fail to achieve that and their paycheck is much lower, but no one ever talks about that.

Not familiar with how German unions work, but agree 100% that most American ones are trapped in a bygone era. The whole "seniority" system needs to be thrown out. It may have made sense 100 years ago when job skills were learned and perfected on the job, but nowadays when initiative and education matter more all you're doing is rewarding someone who just stuck it out the longest whether or not they're the best worker. They also need to lose the mentality that the company is the enemy and owes them a lifetime job.
You'd think that the general low regard younger people have for unions (and corresponding drop in membership) would have been a wakeup call, but it doesn't seem to be.

 

[BackRoad]

Compensation is not like a pie, where there is only a finite amount of pie (cash) to divy out. It may seem that because CEO Charlie gets a giant piece, everybody else can only receive a tiny crumb, but that's not generally how it works.

An individual's compensation is based on both the financial health of an organization and the productivity and value of the individual, whether Hourly Worker, Management or CEO. Only an inept Board of Directors will allow a screw-up CEO to last very long. It does happen, but generally they don't last long.

For an Hourly Worker or Management there are typically levels and ranges, but if one is not producing more and providing higher value for the company than they are being paid, they will not last long (unless there's Union protection, which has in the past, and is still able to force a company into bankruptcy from excessive Union pay obligations).

While working under a competitive, free market / free enterprise system, no one has a right to complain about how much anyone else is paid.

If an individual is not happy with their compensation...it is the individual's right - - and responsibility - - to make a change, to increase their skills or apply themselves in a more satisfactory pursuit to increase compensation.

The opportunity is what is so precious, it's the freedom for individual choice and to be self directed, which is just one of the many reasons against any form of union, socialism or collective forced labor system.

 

[WinterDeere]

If an individual is not happy with their compensation...it is the individual's right - - and responsibility - - to make a change, to increase their skills or apply themselves in a more satisfactory pursuit to increase compensation.

^ This.

When threatened with losing a good employee over a salary discrepancy, no employer for which I've ever worked will hesitate in correcting it. On the flip side, when it's a problem or unproductive employee doing the whining, it's often an equally-good opportunity to be rid of them.

The fly in the ointment of this grand theory is that companies make it policy to prohibit the sharing of compensation details. I suspect most states have laws to prevent a company from doing so, but such preventions have been in the handbooks or SOP's of every company for which I've ever worked. The company does NOT want employees sharing this data, as it's the first step toward ad-hoc bargaining.

 

[ultrarunner]

There are always exceptions...

Several I know had golden or silver parachutes ..

The hired hatchet guys to come in and cut to the bone in reorganizations of companies everyone here would know.

Upfront there included a clause like 5 million severance where the board could for any reason terminate the CEO by invoking and handing over the 5 million check 0lus whatever else due...

One company the cuts were so drastic prepping to sell off in pieces the board of mostly family members told the CEO enough...

In my own sphere my title keeps changing with the latest because the Union side objected and I said no problem... I will join the union and that was met with s resounding NO...

 

[WinterDeere]

The hired hatchet guys to come in and cut to the bone in reorganizations of companies everyone here would know.

Just happened to re-watch that old episode of Cheers, where Norm was promoted to be the hatchet guy for his company. Probably one of their better episodes, still holds up today!

"Cheers" The Executive's Executioner (TV Episode 1985) ⭐ 7.9 | Comedy, Drama

30m | TV-PG

www.imdb.com

 

[D&D]

If an individual is not happy with their compensation..

Often the employee doesn’t look at total employer package when griping about their pay. SS, vacation pay, sick leave, profit sharing, 401K matching, bonuses, company vehicle are all things that aren’t free. Now, in Md., they just mandated FAMLI (family and medical leave insurance) which will cost the employer between 0.45% and 0.90% of wages for all employees. FAMLI gives up to 24 weeks of paid leave per year.

 

[tradosaurus]

Compensation is not like a pie, where there is only a finite amount of pie (cash) to divy out. It may seem that because CEO Charlie gets a giant piece, everybody else can only receive a tiny crumb, but that's not generally how it works.

An individual's compensation is based on both the financial health of an organization and the productivity and value of the individual, whether Hourly Worker, Management or CEO. Only an inept Board of Directors will allow a screw-up CEO to last very long. It does happen, but generally they don't last long.

For an Hourly Worker or Management there are typically levels and ranges, but if one is not producing more and providing higher value for the company than they are being paid, they will not last long (unless there's Union protection, which has in the past, and is still able to force a company into bankruptcy from excessive Union pay obligations).

While working under a competitive, free market / free enterprise system, no one has a right to complain about how much anyone else is paid.

If an individual is not happy with their compensation...it is the individual's right - - and responsibility - - to make a change, to increase their skills or apply themselves in a more satisfactory pursuit to increase compensation.

The opportunity is what is so precious, it's the freedom for individual choice and to be self directed, which is just one of the many reasons against any form of union, socialism or collective forced labor system.

You sound like a LinkedIn advertisement.

Capitalism as it is now, with very little morality, is evil. It's a fact that unions created a balanced work life with 40 hr work weeks, vacation, benefits.

Still in states that have a right to hire/right to fire it doesn't matter how productive you are if you don't tow the company line your job will be eliminated, unless you are union member.

Good thing with the Federal Government is that there are rules in place to fire someone. It takes work but it can be done.

In 30 yrs in the work force I've learned that my loyalty goes so far as my paycheck. It's an exchange of services so don't expect me to be a cheerleader for mission statements and buzz words.

 

[ultrarunner]

Companies with labor and management in harmony do exists...

Coming from the side of self employed farmers and small shop owners it came as a surprise working in a Union Shop when the shop steward came up to me asking if I heard the shift bell... I said yes, but if I turn off the machine now the load will be spoiled and less than 2 minutes to go... he turned off the machine for me.

At the hospital the older workers tend to be more relaxed as in willing to give a fee minutes to help a patient after clock out.

The younger, while very good on the clock, tend to be 100% by the clock...

 

[Oaktree]

Several I know had golden or silver parachutes ..

The hired hatchet guys to come in and cut to the bone in reorganizations of companies everyone here would know.

Upfront there included a clause like 5 million severance where the board could for any reason terminate the CEO by invoking and handing over the 5 million check 0lus whatever else due...

Then shame on the board for going along with that. No excuse for rewarding a CEO who got let go for not doing his job properly.

 

[ultrarunner]

Then shame on the board for going along with that. No excuse for rewarding a CEO who got let go for not doing his job properly.

Take no prisoners to squeeze out every penny and demands total unencumbered authority and should it become too much the board has a no fault out.

He has told me many family businesses, even with hundreds of millions in sales, are emotional and soft in management decisions..

They hire him to increase shareholder equity and he does this leaving a path of carnage in his wake... he says he is a real SOB and happy about it.

I know he has closed down US production and outsourced overseas... even when the factory was the community anchor employing generations... saying it's just business.

I only came to know him because he married the granddaughter of my close friend and that did not go well... same attitude at home as in business...

He offered all the trappings of success... private jet, ski holidays in Switzerland, nannies, housekeepers, etc...

When they split he said fight me and you will have nothing... she fought and has nothing... all of her prenup money gone in a few years on legal fees...

 

[BackRoad]

Capitalism as it is now, with very little morality, is evil.

In 30 yrs in the work force I've learned that my loyalty goes so far as my paycheck. It's an exchange of services so don't expect me to be a cheerleader for mission statements and buzz words.

Your comments are consistent. Thanks for contributing.

Actually capitalism is an idea. It is neither moral nor amoral.

 

[D&D]

You sound like a LinkedIn advertisement.

Capitalism as it is now, with very little morality, is evil. It's a fact that unions created a balanced work life with 40 hr work weeks, vacation, benefits.

Still in states that have a right to hire/right to fire it doesn't matter how productive you are if you don't tow the company line your job will be eliminated, unless you are union member.

Good thing with the Federal Government is that there are rules in place to fire someone. It takes work but it can be done.

In 30 yrs in the work force I've learned that my loyalty goes so far as my paycheck. It's an exchange of services so don't expect me to be a cheerleader for mission statements and buzz words.

A servant of/to the government, that explains a lot.

 

[paulsharvey]

I'm not a fan at all of Unions, but at one point, they did serve a purpose. It probably was a good idea to get 8-12 year Olds out of the mines. In this day, I think most unions are bad for workers, and for the companies. Now, as I have gotten in arguments with many people who love unions, there Are different types of unions, with some serving kinda like a Skilled staffing agency. I have Never liked that most ban cross training, and normally block any merit based raises for across the board stuff.

At the same time, I also do know that Many companies (it's normally specific supervisors, not broad company policy, but often entire offices/yards) that will want everyone to come in 30 mins early every day for the safety meeting (unpaid), and similar. Most unions locally actually can't get anything done productive. They might negotiate a 6% over 3 year raise, and get a the boot allowance upped from $50 to $75; but for a hard working, ambitious person, they are better without the union.

 

[Oaktree]

Actually capitalism is an idea. It is neither moral nor amoral.

Capitalism, communism & socialism all work great on paper. It's when human nature gets involved that things go sideways. Pick your poison.

 

[WinterDeere]

I always want to re-attribute Churchill's famous democracy quote to Capitalism. He said something like, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."

There are a myriad of problems with unbridled capitalism, but at least it's fundamental principles align with human nature... unlike all the others.

 

[Torvy]

Often the employee doesn’t look at total employer package when griping about their pay. SS, vacation pay, sick leave, profit sharing, 401K matching, bonuses, company vehicle are all things that aren’t free. Now, in Md., they just mandated FAMLI (family and medical leave insurance) which will cost the employer between 0.45% and 0.90% of wages for all employees. FAMLI gives up to 24 weeks of paid leave per year.

When I first started working in a role where I was aware of the cost of "fringe" benefits (the term for the collective outlay the employer makes to pay for various benefit packages), the rate was 35% of the employee pay. (1984ish) This does not include the employer portion of payroll taxes. (For those who don't know, your employer pays the same for social security and Medicare on your behalf as you pay in. In reality, you are paying over 15% of your pay.

While I eventually moved out of roles that dealt with that level of detail, SWMBO stayed in that type of role until her retirement (8 months ago). By then, the fringe rate was exceeding 55%. In other words, for every dollar you get paid, your employer is paying 55 cents for the other benefits you get...and this is in Texas where we have fewer mandates than some states. In some states it will be even more.

 

[newbury]

When I first started working in a role where I was aware of the cost of "fringe" benefits (the term for the collective outlay the employer makes to pay for various benefit packages), the rate was 35% of the employee pay. (1984ish) This does not include the employer portion of payroll taxes. (For those who don't know, your employer pays the same for social security and Medicare on your behalf as you pay in. In reality, you are paying over 15% of your pay.

While I eventually moved out of roles that dealt with that level of detail, SWMBO stayed in that type of role until her retirement (8 months ago). By then, the fringe rate was exceeding 55%. In other words, for every dollar you get paid, your employer is paying 55 cents for the other benefits you get...and this is in Texas where we have fewer mandates than some states. In some states it will be even more.

When (pre 2012) I was doing cost estimates for hiring contractors for work on Army projects the general rule was plan on the "overhead" rate being equal to the salary.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, the number has moved, but the general role of thumb used to be, under $62,000 per year, the Only thing matters is money. Dental plan, PTO, holidays, stock options, all useless. Once you get over $62,000 per year, (that's pay, not labor burden), then employees start caring more about pto, health insurance, holidays, company events, feeling fulfilled, ect

If I remember right, that $62,000 number was about 5 years ago

I would guess the number is probably $85,000 now?

 

[Snobdds]

You sound like a LinkedIn advertisement.

Capitalism as it is now, with very little morality, is evil. It's a fact that unions created a balanced work life with 40 hr work weeks, vacation, benefits.

Still in states that have a right to hire/right to fire it doesn't matter how productive you are if you don't tow the company line your job will be eliminated, unless you are union member.

Good thing with the Federal Government is that there are rules in place to fire someone. It takes work but it can be done.

In 30 yrs in the work force I've learned that my loyalty goes so far as my paycheck. It's an exchange of services so don't expect me to be a cheerleader for mission statements and buzz words.

I don't think you have a good grasp on what Capitalism is.

Capitalism is about proper alignment of resources...not labor issues...

 

[WinterDeere]

When (pre 2012) I was doing cost estimates for hiring contractors for work on Army projects the general rule was plan on the "overhead" rate being equal to the salary.

Same here, and PA is generally one of the cheaper east-coast states in which to do business.