No matter how dumb you thought it was he was merely pointing out some things that needed to be pointed out for some here.
Do ROPS' work when UP? Do they work when folded?
- Thread starter beppington
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No matter how dumb you thought it was he was merely pointing out some things that needed to be pointed out for some here.
aczlan
Good Morning
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- Kubota L3830GST, B7500HST, BX2660. Formerly: Case 480F LL, David Brown 880UE
One other thing to think of (for tractors without a FEL installed), pop the hood and see there the top of the engine is and make sure that you are using that for your "line to the folded ROPS" as your hood and the light stuff right under it could be crushed in a rollover reducing the "safe space" for you.
Aaron Z
Aaron Z
Willl
Elite Member
If the insurance companys have to pay out, I'll put money down we'll see that happen.
Probably not since not having a folding ROPS only encourages the removal of them all together.
OP
beppington
Elite Member
Wow, this thread's gotten outta hand, men.
1) I (the OP) really wanted to know about your first-hand experiences when rolling over, namely how your ROPS fared & whether you were hurt.
2) And, maybe I shoulda worded the 2nd part this way: If your ROPS was folded down & you rolled, would the two ROPS side pieces still sticking up bend over, or are they strong enough to not bend, thus maybe helping prevent your tractor from rolling all the way upside-down.
Had no idea this discussion would go on to this extent! Interesting reading, though.
1) I (the OP) really wanted to know about your first-hand experiences when rolling over, namely how your ROPS fared & whether you were hurt.
2) And, maybe I shoulda worded the 2nd part this way: If your ROPS was folded down & you rolled, would the two ROPS side pieces still sticking up bend over, or are they strong enough to not bend, thus maybe helping prevent your tractor from rolling all the way upside-down.
Had no idea this discussion would go on to this extent! Interesting reading, though.
aczlan
Good Morning
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- Kubota L3830GST, B7500HST, BX2660. Formerly: Case 480F LL, David Brown 880UE
I can give you a definite maybe on the second. On hard, flat ground, at low rollover speeds, they would help.
On soft (ie: soft enough to put a shovel into without jumping on it) ground the end is likely to dig in.
On sloped ground, it will probably not slow you down much from a full rollover.
Aaron Z
johnrex62
Platinum Member
To specifically address your updated questions, albeit not from personal experience, I would expect some deformation of the folded ROPS and/or some penetration of the ROPS into the ground; depth depending upon ground conditions.
Wheter they would prevent a total inversion of the tractor would also depend on an number of factors; tipping force, incline of ground, direction of tip, speed of tipping, etc....
Back to the ongoing battle concerning the survivability of such an event with the ROPS folded, I would submit that the head space would be considerably less than one might anticipate not only due to the potential penetration of the ROPS and the probable compression of the surfaces of the tractor holding the operator off the ground, but also because of the slack in the seatbelt and compressionability of the operator's body when affected by gravity and centrifical force as the tractor moves toward the inverted position. Measuring the distance from the seat to to the top of the folder ROPS is inadequate unless you can also factor in how far your body will be hanging out of the seat as you roll and what distance the ground will be from the seat during the event. Since this is such a complicated and variable computation, I would strongly suggest avoiding the whole scenario. Keep the ROPS up and try not to tip your tractor. Being safe and avoid proving this argument and I think you will be much happier.
Wheter they would prevent a total inversion of the tractor would also depend on an number of factors; tipping force, incline of ground, direction of tip, speed of tipping, etc....
Back to the ongoing battle concerning the survivability of such an event with the ROPS folded, I would submit that the head space would be considerably less than one might anticipate not only due to the potential penetration of the ROPS and the probable compression of the surfaces of the tractor holding the operator off the ground, but also because of the slack in the seatbelt and compressionability of the operator's body when affected by gravity and centrifical force as the tractor moves toward the inverted position. Measuring the distance from the seat to to the top of the folder ROPS is inadequate unless you can also factor in how far your body will be hanging out of the seat as you roll and what distance the ground will be from the seat during the event. Since this is such a complicated and variable computation, I would strongly suggest avoiding the whole scenario. Keep the ROPS up and try not to tip your tractor. Being safe and avoid proving this argument and I think you will be much happier.
Rickstir
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I have sun screen on mine and since it took $500 and two days in the sun to modify the pole barn door to fit the tractor in the barn, mine will stay up!
I am counting on mine working well enough to at least keep the thing from going clear over and and following me down the slope that and it giving me something to tie on to to flip it back over afterward.
I don't plan on riding it out though if its at all possible to jump off first,and if its down and I stay on I would be smashed no doubt about that.
With that said they aren't really made for 30 mph crashes only a slow roll but I could be wrong.
I don't plan on riding it out though if its at all possible to jump off first,and if its down and I stay on I would be smashed no doubt about that.
With that said they aren't really made for 30 mph crashes only a slow roll but I could be wrong.
I was doing some reading on this subject and apparently as a result of the numbers of people not raising them for use, The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, NIOSH, has been working on a passive, automatically deploying ROPS system. They call it an AutoROPS.
I also found this pdf of a prototype automatic deploying ROPS from The University of Tennessee. http://www.asabe.org/awards/competitions/Powered Foldable ROPS - U of TN-.pdf
Their calculations show this will add $734 to the cost of tractor.
If mandated, potentially we could all have to pay for this, on a future tractor, because of those who would not take the few seconds to raise it manually. :drink:
I also found this pdf of a prototype automatic deploying ROPS from The University of Tennessee. http://www.asabe.org/awards/competitions/Powered Foldable ROPS - U of TN-.pdf
Their calculations show this will add $734 to the cost of tractor.
If mandated, potentially we could all have to pay for this, on a future tractor, because of those who would not take the few seconds to raise it manually. :drink:
hawkeye08
Elite Member
I wonder if you could bolt a 5gal bucket on the autoROPS and use it to launch pumpkins?
Danno1
Veteran Member
.
That's been on a Porcsh/BMW/Audi??? convertable for a few years now.
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That's been on a Porcsh/BMW/Audi??? convertable for a few years now.
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LostInTheWoods
Platinum Member
WOW! I don't think I have ever seen such a bizare back-and-forth on TBN. Which, naturally, draws me into the fray
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I hadn't even looked at this post until today because it seems pretty starightforward..."Do they work when folded?". No. End of story. About three posts, and case closed.
Then I glanced at the number of posts in this thread. HOLY CRAP! What could they possibly be discussing?!?
So, do they provide some protection when folded. Sure. Wholly inadequate protection, but protection nonetheless. Three walls of a square cage would provide some protection from wild mountain gorillas...
I'm no genius, and I'm no engineer. But the physics isn't too hard even for me to understand. Arguing about who's right or wrong based on absolutes seems silly to me, but I've probably been guilty of dumber things in my life.
I feel supremely confident that ROPS up and seatbelts on is the way to go. I do not see how anyone could justify not using them and not recommending to others using them this way. If the environment around you doesn't allow you to use the ROPS as intended, then alter the environment instead of lowering your ROPS.
I would almost pay the 700 bucks for an autoROPS that launched pumpkins, however:laughing:. Especially if it could accurately target mountain gorillas.
.I hadn't even looked at this post until today because it seems pretty starightforward..."Do they work when folded?". No. End of story. About three posts, and case closed.
Then I glanced at the number of posts in this thread. HOLY CRAP! What could they possibly be discussing?!?
So, do they provide some protection when folded. Sure. Wholly inadequate protection, but protection nonetheless. Three walls of a square cage would provide some protection from wild mountain gorillas...
I'm no genius, and I'm no engineer. But the physics isn't too hard even for me to understand. Arguing about who's right or wrong based on absolutes seems silly to me, but I've probably been guilty of dumber things in my life.
I feel supremely confident that ROPS up and seatbelts on is the way to go. I do not see how anyone could justify not using them and not recommending to others using them this way. If the environment around you doesn't allow you to use the ROPS as intended, then alter the environment instead of lowering your ROPS.
I would almost pay the 700 bucks for an autoROPS that launched pumpkins, however:laughing:. Especially if it could accurately target mountain gorillas.
hawkeye08
Elite Member
Get a load of pumpkins in the FEL bucket and have an ammo supply for just those cases.
Practical use, if the ROPs up and down was a simple push button, would more folks that have to fold down to get into garage put them up when they come out of the garage? Maybe a sensor on the ROPs could detect before it wacks the door or header and sound an alarm?
I know that if I had to put mine up and down every time I got the tractor out, it would get old fast.
Dr_Zinj
Veteran Member
A ROPS is a tool. Now I've always been told from my high school shop teacher all the way up to the department foreman that if you're using a tool the way it was intended, it's a safe tool. If you're not, then your tool isn't safe. So if your ROPS isn't up and you're using your tractor, you're not safe.
And arguments that a folded down ROPS provides X% protection is just another form of absurd reasoning. 50% crush protection is still likely to be 100% dead.
Roll overs are bad. I've got places on my property where I break out in a sweat just thinking about it. But a deployed ROPS also protects during flip backs; which usually happen a lot faster than a rollover.
And arguments that a folded down ROPS provides X% protection is just another form of absurd reasoning. 50% crush protection is still likely to be 100% dead.
Roll overs are bad. I've got places on my property where I break out in a sweat just thinking about it. But a deployed ROPS also protects during flip backs; which usually happen a lot faster than a rollover.
Dr_Zinj
Veteran Member
I spent a day at the Deerfield Fair this weekend and looked at all the various tractors there: Massey Ferguson, John Deere, New Holland, Bobcat, Kubota, etc.
I checked out every one of their hinged ROPS, and the hinge point is too low to have the uprights provide any protection during a roll over with the top hinged down. In all cases, the tractor is going to rest on the seat pan.
'Nuff said?
I checked out every one of their hinged ROPS, and the hinge point is too low to have the uprights provide any protection during a roll over with the top hinged down. In all cases, the tractor is going to rest on the seat pan.
'Nuff said?
OP
beppington
Elite Member
jml755
Silver Member
Neat .pdf you referenced. But....... there is a limit switch that signals when the ROPS is raised and the author cites it as a trouble point in the system prototype. So, how many tractors with these would have them bypassed the first time it doesn't work? You can't legislate against human nature.
Heck the neutral safety switch is bypassed on the Ford 3600 I recently bought and I see seats tied down all the time to defeat the seat switches. All this auto-ROPS would do is increase the cost of a tractor and be another government intrusion on our daily lives. Remember the days of the automatic seatbelts in cars?
Interesting discussion,though. And I only saw one poster who could attest first hand about a rollover. Plus, I wouldn't be smiling while the tractor is rolling over thinking I'm safe with a ROPS. A rollover COULD be a violent, unpredictable event over uneven terrain, strewn with rocks, logs or other stuff that kicks up and whacks you in the head. Heck, the muffler could snap off and burn you or kill you.
In any case, you're safer with a ROPS and seatbelt, but there is no substitute for careful safe operation in the first place, no matter how many safeguards the government mandates.
Heck the neutral safety switch is bypassed on the Ford 3600 I recently bought and I see seats tied down all the time to defeat the seat switches. All this auto-ROPS would do is increase the cost of a tractor and be another government intrusion on our daily lives. Remember the days of the automatic seatbelts in cars?
Interesting discussion,though. And I only saw one poster who could attest first hand about a rollover. Plus, I wouldn't be smiling while the tractor is rolling over thinking I'm safe with a ROPS. A rollover COULD be a violent, unpredictable event over uneven terrain, strewn with rocks, logs or other stuff that kicks up and whacks you in the head. Heck, the muffler could snap off and burn you or kill you.
In any case, you're safer with a ROPS and seatbelt, but there is no substitute for careful safe operation in the first place, no matter how many safeguards the government mandates.
OP
beppington
Elite Member
I just noticed that Kubota's Grand L brochure says "For your safety, KUBOTA strongly recommends the use of a Rollover Protective Structure (ROPS) and seat belt in almost all applications."
Just about as vague as my manual's "Fold the ROPS down only when absolutely necessary and fold it up and lock it again as soon as possible."
Vague as in: Wonder what applications Kubota thinks it's OK to not use the ROPS and/ or seatbelt.
Just about as vague as my manual's "Fold the ROPS down only when absolutely necessary and fold it up and lock it again as soon as possible."
Vague as in: Wonder what applications Kubota thinks it's OK to not use the ROPS and/ or seatbelt.
