DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse.

dourobob · Jun 11, 2011

tnewbern said:
Excellent idea...
The Service Manual states the first letter is year of manufacture.

H = 2008
I = 2009
J = 2010
K = 2011

Next 3 are the model number.

T65 = DK40
T66 = DK45
S28 = DK50

The remainder is the serial number.

I guess H15 is the DK40(C). So I would decode this as the 38th DK40C made in 2011. Thats strange I received it in November of 2010. I know this came directly from NC it was never on the dealers lot.

Tom

I am just a bit confused (not that it takes much some days).

I took my Identification # from the tractor this morning - sounded like a good idea to see if there is a connection to the "squealers"

Mine # is JH1400036

Having trouble relating this to the guide - that would make my tractor a

2010 Year (I bought it in November 2009)
H1 Model -it is a DK45se HST (No "T66" on the tag)
Serial # 00036 - 36th one of the day?

Hope this might help someone (Tom?, Coyote Machine?, KattyWumpus? or ??) who can make more sense of it than I can.

Bob

Coyote machine · Jun 11, 2011

Durobob,

Maybe the slightly different coding is because you're in Canada, eh?

Otherwise, it's similar coding to TNewburn's, which also has an H instead of the T66 designation. Both of your tractors have cabs yes?
Maybe the 14 is US and 15 is Canada for HST's with cabs.....

tnewbern · Jun 11, 2011

H15 = DK40 CAB
H14 = DK45 CAB

Also the serial number relates to the year not the day.

somguyss · Jun 13, 2011

KIOTI TRACTOR doesn't use the Letter I:confused2:

IslandTractor · Jun 13, 2011

somguyss said:
KIOTI TRACTOR doesn't use the Letter I:confused2:

Both the letters I and O are easily confused with 1 and 0(zero). That could be one reason not to use them in serial numbers.

Coyote machine · Jun 13, 2011

While using my tractor yesterday another thought occurred to me and I thought it might be useful for those with the squeal to try the following: See if the squeal occurs when running your tractor at 2500 rpm's or higher, regardless of a load on the loader, forks or whatever you might be using.
It could be interesting to see if at that rpm, or near it, the noise is dissipated or gone completely in either forward or reverse.
My short study yesterday indicates, for my tractor, that the noise seems to be less apparent when at the 2500 rpm level. Note, the squeal was already occurring prior to setting the machine at the higher rpms.

Could those of us who have squeal noise and haven't yet sent in their serial numbers, please do so, so we can continue to log that sequence for study.

tnewbern · Jun 13, 2011

I can say for sure that if I run at high RPM's that the squeal is less. I can run much longer before it sets in and its less pronounced. And no the engine noise is not drowning out the squeal. This was one of the reasons I targeted the low charge pressure so heavily when I found it.

I can also say for sure that my charge pressure is still low around 205 PSI (@ full throttle) at the test port. Sorry I know I said it was up but I must have been on cloud nine with the excitement of no squeal. The pressure is 260-270 at the inlet to the HST which indicates a leak somewhere inside. Don't worry I won't go into this again.

Ever since I added the bypass line I have no squeal. I have put over 20 hours on the tractor since (raking and loading so its significant HST work). Before the bypass this happend in 10 - 15 minutes. I am still waiting for the bolts to see if that is all you need. Looks like another week.

I started using an IR temp gauge to check the HST and hydraulic oil temps. I get about 150 degrees (@ the HST filter) in 80-90 degree weather. That does not sound bad I have heard that 100 over ambient is normal. Has anybody else checked the oil temps?

So J = 2009 and K = 2010 that make sense. The manual stopped at H and (I me the person) improvised from there.

Tom

kattywumpus · Jun 22, 2011

The gauges and fitting I need to perform a pressure test finally arrived. Hope to perform a test next week.

Tnewbern, where’s the test port you’re referring too? Page in the shop manual would be helpfully. Thanks

tnewbern · Jun 22, 2011

Hi Kattywumpus,

Glad to hear you get your test equipment. The test is detailed in the HST section of the service manual. The pages are 5-22, 5-23, and 5-24.

For reference the test ports are located under the left step on the transmission behind the little tool box. There are 2 vertically aligned ports the top is for reverse and the bottom is for forward. These are actually the neutral valves and the charge pressure is read at either when in neutral.

If you use a low pressure guage (500 PSI) to read the charge pressure be sure you don't push the pedal as you will destroy the gauge. A $20 lesson I learned the hard way trying to read the charge pressure in the reverse port while going forward. It worked great right up to the point I let off the pedal to stop and the HST when to break and poped the gauge.

I found that it is best to test the charge pressure with the trans in neutral. This way if you accidentally hit the pedal the HST doesn't build pressure above 400 PSI. With the high pressure gauge you can't realy measure the 255 PSI with any degree of accuracy.

By the way the banjo bolts arrived Monday so I just need to find some time to test the results. I hope to try them before the weekend but don't know if that will happen. The past 2 weeks I was between projects and had the time but not the parts. Funny how that works out.

dourobob · Jun 22, 2011

Glad to see some progress on this one. I have been doing projects for the last couple of weeks (not tractor related) but today, in the rain and with cooler temperatures that @#$% squeal came back with a vengeance after only about 20 minutes. Looking forward to hearing the newest results.

Tshaw · Jun 23, 2011

I have the sqweal on my bobcat ct 335, which is the dk35?... I hve 26 hrs and its done it for a while...i'm calling my dealer tomorrow to start the ball rolling from the other end of the spectrum....

P.s. Our new kioti dealer says the bobcat/daedong prtnership is coming to an end... Its been reported as a sales tool for kioti...whats the story with that?

dourobob · Jun 23, 2011

Tshaw said:
P.s. Our new kioti dealer says the bobcat/daedong prtnership is coming to an end... Its been reported as a sales tool for kioti...whats the story with that?

Sorry to hear about your Bobcat squeal - hopefully a solution is forthcoming.

Your other question probably deserves the attention of a completely new thread. I suspect there a few folks on here with some ideas on it.

Bob

kattywumpus · Jun 23, 2011

tnewbern said:
Hi Kattywumpus,
I found that it is best to test the charge pressure with the trans in neutral. This way if you accidentally hit the pedal the HST doesn't build pressure above 400 PSI. With the high pressure gauge you can't realy measure the 255 PSI with any degree of accuracy.

The past 2 weeks I was between projects and had the time but not the parts. Funny how that works out.

Thanks for the tip on preventing gauge destruction. I purchased a 6000, 600, & 300 psi gauges so I should be all set.

Like you my primary challenge is finding time to work on this. While this problem can feel like a priority it really is not compared to other responsibilities I have. My plan is to keep picking away at this issue as my time allows until it is resolved. I sure some people at Kioti may think the longer this drags on the better it is them, if so they made a poor decision. As long as we continue to communication and document this issue and request Kioti help, the more Kioti ignores their customers and responsibilities the greater our case is if a 3rd party ever needs to get involved. This would be unfortunate but based on Kioti behavior maybe unavoidable.

IslandTractor · Jun 23, 2011

kattywumpus said:
. My plan is to keep picking away at this issue as my time allows until it is resolved. I sure some people at Kioti may think the longer this drags on the better it is them, if so they made a poor decision. As long as we continue to communication and document this issue and request Kioti help, the more Kioti ignores their customers and responsibilities the greater our case is if a 3rd party ever needs to get involved. This would be unfortunate but based on Kioti behavior maybe unavoidable.

I have no idea what the industry standard is for this type of service response and fix, there are certainly examples from other companies that have dragged out too long as well. However, based on the loader crack issue, which got far more vehement critique on TBN, Kioti still took about 18 months to solve it. I'm sure there is a lot of back and forth between North Carolina, Korea and Sweden and they are at a disadvantage as the Swedish transmission engineers probably have never had a squealing tractor in their shop. The loader issue was pretty straight forward in comparison they just had a hard time designing a fix that would fit the many different variations in loader build etc.

grsthegreat · Jun 23, 2011

I definitely heard the squeal yesterday after 3 hours of tractor work. its not very loud due to the enclosed cab and radio/ac on, but its there. i just received my set of gages, but have not received the hoses and connections yet. after i get these ill take some pressures.

Sabretooth · Jun 23, 2011

I have been following this post for a while here is my 2cents. Just do a search for "whine" "Hydro" or "transmission" you will see most if not all these CUT companies have people complaining about this or similar to this BTW I think it has to do with the relief valve pressure too high it dumps pressure not enough whine and you need high pressure for these to work right I dont know for sure. I thought I had a problem when I got my little tractor CT230 till I read all the posts from Kioti,Bobcat,Kubota,JD,NH I think it might be inherent with this type of transmission I will see after it has been broken in and has a few hundred hours on the clock by that time there wont be any warranty for me or any of us anyway.

Coyote machine · Jun 23, 2011

Sabretooth said:
I have been following this post for a while here is my 2cents. Just do a search for "whine" "Hydro" or "transmission" you will see most if not all these CUT companies have people complaining about this or similar to this BTW I think it has to do with the relief valve pressure too high it dumps pressure not enough whine and you need high pressure for these to work right I dont know for sure. I thought I had a problem when I got my little tractor CT230 till I read all the posts from Kioti,Bobcat,Kubota,JD,NH I think it might be inherent with this type of transmission I will see after it has been broken in and has a few hundred hours on the clock by that time there wont be any warranty for me or any of us anyway.

Kioti warranty is four years, second two cover all engine/transmission internal parts, regardless of hours. Issues documented during warranty that are not resolved during warranty often continue to be 'serviced' after official warranty is over, on a case by case basis, or whatever the manufacturer determines will be the specifics of a particular known problem.
Though other manufacturers may seem to have similar problems with noises from HST type transmissions Kioti is our driving concern, and I for one can assure you the key posters to this thread will go where it takes us to get this problem solved- if it takes months or years, we will prevail!:thumbsup: This statement is not to misunderstood for arrogance, it is merely a statement of determination.

Sabretooth · Jun 23, 2011

Coyote machine what are you the Kioti Gestapo I don't understand the purpose of your post I was not trying to start a confrontation with you or the Kioti clan or trying to down play the whine I was here trying to find more information and offer a suggestion on what others might of found with their brand of tractor who know I dont it might help. I was just sharing what I thought was an apparent similarity to this thread and other brands of HST trans and only because as stated I also have a little whine but I would'nt say a squeal. I did not need "two" know Kioti's warranty I know it and anyone else that owns a tractor from when I was shopping tractors. I was here looking at what other members were doing to research the noise and what to do to combat it. And yes I do think you came off a bit arrogant I thought people came here to learn find things they did not think about on their own and share what they found or thought of for others to also learn.

Coyote machine · Jun 23, 2011

Sabretooth said:
Coyote machine what are you the Kioti Gestapo I don't understand the purpose of your post I was not trying to start a confrontation with you or the Kioti clan or trying to down play the whine I was here trying to find more information and offer a suggestion on what others might of found with their brand of tractor who know I dont it might help. I was just sharing what I thought was an apparent similarity to this thread and other brands of HST trans and only because as stated I also have a little whine but I would'nt say a squeal. I did not need "two" know Kioti's warranty I know it and anyone else that owns a tractor from when I was shopping tractors. I was here looking at what other members were doing to research the noise and what to do to combat it. And yes I do think you came off a bit arrogant I thought people came here to learn find things they did not think about on their own and share what they found or thought of for others to also learn.

I'm NOT the Gestapo; your term. I quote a portion of what you said originally: "I think it might be inherent with this type of transmission I will see after it has been broken in and has a few hundred hours on the clock by that time there wont be any warranty for me or any of us anyway."
(Italics added).
Doesn't seem you know the warranty, from your statement above. I stated for clarity that what I said was a statement NOT from any kind of arrogance, but from a place of determination to get the problem resolved regardless of what any other manufacturer does or doesn't do to address it, including Kioti. The statement was and is NOT directed to you in particular, it was what I put it out there to be, a statement of determination for all those who are plagued by this problem. Sorry if it seemed otherwise.

grsthegreat · Jun 23, 2011

Ive read a few posts on other tractor sites and in other posts on this site that mention a squeal in other brands of HST tractors also.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...tatic-transmission-whine-larger-tractors.html

I finally got the 2 fittings that i need to connect to my tractor, but i still need to get a 5 foot hose and a couple of quick connects. guess its back to my hose shop next monday....again

I could live with the whine personally (cab mutes it) as long as i can be certain that it wont damage the HST unit. I have a call into my dealer today. Mine didn't happen every time i reversed, only about 1/2 the time . yesterday was the warmest day we've had here (83F) since i purchased the tractor. There was NO whine on the colder days i operated it.