DK40 cranking but not starting

[Gordon Gould]

Not to confuse you more but this is how my Kubota L3010 solenoid works. With no power , key off, the fuel solenoid is open. Start the tractor and run it nothing happens with the solenoid - stays open. When you turn the key off to shut down the Fuel Shut-Off Timer Relay closes for about 5 or 10 seconds which applies 12 V to the solenoid valve and closes it to kill the fuel supply and stop the engine. The engine stops before the timer relay opens back up at which time the valve returns to it's normally open position. If the electronic stop system fails there is a mechanical emergency stop lever on the dash.

Seems like this might explain your POWER OFF TIMER RELAY ??????
Too bad it is so hard to get info. You would think a good dealer would be more helpful explaining how things are supposed to work.

gg

 

[bullebak]

... When you turn the key off to shut down the Fuel Shut-Off Timer Relay closes for about 5 or 10 seconds which applies 12 V to the solenoid valve and closes it to kill the fuel supply and stop the engine. The engine stops before the timer relay opens back up at which time the valve returns to it's normally open position. ...

Seems like this might explain your POWER OFF TIMER RELAY ??????
...

Understood. However my tractor has always stopped immediately when the ignition key is switched off.

 

[ericm979]

The system he describes would do that. The timer waits the 10 seconds when the engine should be off, then opens up the solenoid again. Otherwise it would be energized the whole time the tractor is parked with the key off, running down the battery.

 

[DK35vince]

The system he describes would do that. The timer waits the 10 seconds when the engine should be off, then opens up the solenoid again. Otherwise it would be energized the whole time the tractor is parked with the key off, running down the battery.

And that's the setup my DK 35 has.
I thought the DK 40 was the same setup as the 35.

 

[bullebak]

This morning while in town I dropped into the service agency and discussed the situation with the 'chief mechanic'.

He thought the blue wire is 'probably an earth' but wasn't very sure. Asked him for a proper service manual for this tractor but his reply was negative.

He said most likely it's the rack stuck in the closed position.

Vince, when I had my DK35 the engine also stopped immediately upon turning off the ignition. Sounds like different tractor for different countries, but same model numbers.

 

[DK35vince]

Vince, when I had my DK35 the engine also stopped immediately upon turning off the ignition. Sounds like different tractor for different countries, but same model numbers.

My tractor shuts down immediately when the key is turned off and it has the shutdown setup mentioned above.
The shutdown only activates for a few seconds once the key is turned off then powers down after a few seconds and returns to the open position.
I'm almost certain the DK 40 used the same setup.

 

[bullebak]

Continued...

About the solenoid, there is a few ohms resistance between ground and the pin on the socket to which the red wire connects. Means there is something inside but nothing on the pin connecting to the blue wire. Nothing measured between the two pins either.

Have been trying to figure out where the other end of those two wires go... no luck yet. Difficult working conditions in the blazing hot sun.

Circuit diagram is next to useless.

Q1: Anyone know what that lever is for in the attached photo?
Q2: That solenoid is attached with two bolts, anyone has any experience removing it and see what's inside?

 

[ericm979]

On the Bosch pump that lever would be the manual shutdown lever. It's in the same location on your pump, next to the cutoff solenoid. The Bosch manual says that it may not be connected to a linkage, and it's not on my 3725.

 

[bullebak]

On the Bosch pump that lever would be the manual shutdown lever. It's in the same location on your pump, next to the cutoff solenoid. The Bosch manual says that it may not be connected to a linkage, and it's not on my 3725.

In the position shown, would that be fuel off, or fuel on position? Does the position change when you start your engine? (I never took notice of it).

 

[Dave M7040]

This morning while in town I dropped into the service agency and discussed the situation with the 'chief mechanic'.

He thought the blue wire is 'probably an earth' but wasn't very sure. Asked him for a proper service manual for this tractor but his reply was negative.

He said most likely it's the rack stuck in the closed position.

Vince, when I had my DK35 the engine also stopped immediately upon turning off the ignition. Sounds like different tractor for different countries, but same model numbers.

I think you will see this info as good news.
100 td pm'd me a link where Kioti manuals are available for low cost download

Kioti Tractor Service Manuals PDF Download

It cost me $14 Canadian for what seems to be a high quality WSM for a DK40

It is copy protected. The illustrations are very clear.

I have just started to look it over re your problem but I think it would be a great resource for you or anyone else with a Kioti.

Dave M7040

 

[ericm979]

I don't know which position is which (and it might be different for your pump than the Bosch I have manuals for). On the Bosch it's spring loaded in the run position.

 

[Dave M7040]

Straight from the Kioti DK40 WSM.

I think you should thank another member from downunder for finding the site with the WSM's

I could not find anything in North American searches

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/members/100-td.html
Dave M7040

 

[bullebak]

Straight from the Kioti DK40 WSM.

I think you should thank another member from downunder for finding the site with the WSM's

I could not find anything in North American searches

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/members/100-td.html
Dave M7040

I did contact that site for a manual. No response.

Engine does not start when cool:
Ambiguous - does not say if the engine is cranking. It did not start when warm either. I am having difficulty locating the 'timer relay', due to useless manual. Still work in progress.

 

[Dave M7040]

I did contact that site for a manual. No response.

Engine does not start when cool:
Ambiguous - does not say if the engine is cranking. It did not start when warm either. I am having difficulty locating the 'timer relay', due to useless manual. Still work in progress.

To be absolutely clear, the site for the manuals you have to pay for is:

Kioti Tractor Service Manuals PDF Download

This is where I went and paid them $14 Canadian to download the manual for your tractor so I could try to be of more help to you.

The other link was so you could contact "100 td" and thank him for coming up with this source of manuals. I am an experienced searcher and all I could find searching Kioti was "go to your dealer," whether it was just for an operators manual, parts diagram, or other technical material

I know you are frustrated but don't direct it at the wrong person. You bought the Kioti! Knowing what you do now, likely you would have selected a more supported and known brand.

This is the material from the WSM concerning fuses. I draw your attention to the connection between a signal light timer circuit and the timer relay.

I have marked up a portion of the wiring diagram trying to show you where the Timer Relay gets it power and signal inputs.
I hope my highlighters show up well enough.
I see engine temp input (hydronic temp sensor) & engine vacuum sensor input. I see the Timer relay is served by two fuses. A 25 amp one tied into the turn signal circuit and a 10 amp one coming from the key switch in several positions.

I suggest as a basic step you check the 10 amp and 25 amp fuses. Not just visually but with a meter or test light.

This link to Tractorjoe will show you what a tmer relay looks like and its cost
T434-6243 - Relay, Timer for Kioti Tractors | TractorJoe.com
This youtube video is for a different model of Kioti but around the 4:30 time in the video you can see where this relay is likely located.
Replacing Kioti Dx35/45 Timer Relay - YouTube

Dave M7040

 

[bullebak]

Thanks Dave, very much appreciated.

Will study the info you provided carefully. At least today me and my neighbour pulled the tractor to the front of the shed, making it a lot easier to examine things.

Will also follow the link for a decent manual.

Tony.

 

[bullebak]

Downloaded the manual (DK40), but it's almost identical to what I have already.

My engine is significantly different from that shown in the manual especially in relation to the solenoid. I am thinking Kioti made a special engine for Australia but not providing any service manual.

On the engine side of the firewall there are a number of relays, but the printing is unreadable. According to my old manual, the timer relay is on the engine side of the firewall, just have to figure out which one. I am reluctant to pull apart the instrument panel until more confident that's where it actually is.

My neighbour turned the PTO switch to Manual (careless) and left it there... battery drained empty. He has a tractor himself but does not know what a PTO is.

Just a bad day...

 

[DK35vince]

Downloaded the manual (DK40), but it's almost identical to what I have already.

My engine is significantly different from that shown in the manual especially in relation to the solenoid. I am thinking Kioti made a special engine for Australia but not providing any service manual.

On the engine side of the firewall there are a number of relays, but the printing is unreadable. According to my old manual, the timer relay is on the engine side of the firewall, just have to figure out which one. I am reluctant to pull apart the instrument panel until more confident that's where it actually is.

My neighbour turned the PTO switch to Manual (careless) and left it there... battery drained empty. He has a tractor himself but does not know what a PTO is.

Just a bad day...

In around 2005 Kioti changed some of the pumps and put the fuel shutdown solenoid in the front of the pump.
Those are the pumps that had issues of not starting (some 2005-2008 models) due to stripped gears in the pump.
From the pictures your pump could be that setup, its certainly different than my DK 35 and the older model 40 (My DK 35 and the older model 40 had a different pump and shutdown solenoid setup, like the one in your service manual)
Do a search and you can read all about the pump issues and not starting on the 2005-2008 models on this site.

 

[Dave M7040]

Downloaded the manual (DK40), but it's almost identical to what I have already.

My engine is significantly different from that shown in the manual especially in relation to the solenoid. I am thinking Kioti made a special engine for Australia but not providing any service manual.

On the engine side of the firewall there are a number of relays, but the printing is unreadable. According to my old manual, the timer relay is on the engine side of the firewall, just have to figure out which one. I am reluctant to pull apart the instrument panel until more confident that's where it actually is.

My neighbour turned the PTO switch to Manual (careless) and left it there... battery drained empty. He has a tractor himself but does not know what a PTO is.

Just a bad day...

This is am image of a Kioti Timer relay.

There are a number of Kioti videos on youtube which show the relay on the right side of the dash area.

Dave M7040

 

[Dave M7040]

Downloaded the manual (DK40), but it's almost identical to what I have already.

My engine is significantly different from that shown in the manual especially in relation to the solenoid. I am thinking Kioti made a special engine for Australia but not providing any service manual.

Suggest you send an email to the on line company at the e-mail address which you received from them with the link to the download file.
support@cbssm.com

If you agree to delete the material, they will refund all your money.

Dave M7040

 

[bullebak]

To be absolutely clear, the site for the manuals you have to pay for is:

Kioti Tractor Service Manuals PDF Download

This is where I went and paid them $14 Canadian to download the manual for your tractor so I could try to be of more help to you.

The other link was so you could contact "100 td" and thank him for coming up with this source of manuals. I am an experienced searcher and all I could find searching Kioti was "go to your dealer," whether it was just for an operators manual, parts diagram, or other technical material

I know you are frustrated but don't direct it at the wrong person. You bought the Kioti! Knowing what you do now, likely you would have selected a more supported and known brand.

This is the material from the WSM concerning fuses. I draw your attention to the connection between a signal light timer circuit and the timer relay.

I have marked up a portion of the wiring diagram trying to show you where the Timer Relay gets it power and signal inputs.
I hope my highlighters show up well enough.
I see engine temp input (hydronic temp sensor) & engine vacuum sensor input. I see the Timer relay is served by two fuses. A 25 amp one tied into the turn signal circuit and a 10 amp one coming from the key switch in several positions.

I suggest as a basic step you check the 10 amp and 25 amp fuses. Not just visually but with a meter or test light.

This link to Tractorjoe will show you what a tmer relay looks like and its cost
T434-6243 - Relay, Timer for Kioti Tractors | TractorJoe.com
This youtube video is for a different model of Kioti but around the 4:30 time in the video you can see where this relay is likely located.
Replacing Kioti Dx35/45 Timer Relay - YouTube

Dave M7040

Today I disassembled the instument panel giving me access to 7 relays.

In the video, where the guy shows the Timer Relay, I have a 'Flasher Unit'. I am still unable to identify the location of the Timer Relay.

From left to right:

1. ? Unreadable
2. A114013 DECO (no idea what it means or does)
3. ? Unreadable
4. A S S 'Y FFT CONTROLLER (can anyone enlighten me? cannot find on circuit diagram)
5. ? Unreadable
6. HAZARD UNIT (cannot see hazard unit on circuit diragram)
7. FLASHER UNIT

Ok, in 2005 they changed the solenoid system, anyone know starting from which serial number?

My date of purchase was 24 May 2007
Model DK40
Serial Number EC7300030

It had some hours on it on delivery. This was an 'upgrade' from my DK35 which had numerous issues and wheels too large. With this DK40, also problems with the 4WD, disintegrated twice... got nowhere with the dealer, service agent or distributor. Wrote to Kiota in SK, no reply. Most of the time this machine has been out of service. Next will have to go to law.

I am starting to suspect they done a dirty deal on me.

Service Agent cannot supply any workshop manual or circuit ciagram.