DIY ELECTRICIANS.. PLEASE NOTE

[mbohuntr]

Recently a gentleman was asking about putting in a salvaged 3ph. motor starter for his single phase shop. It quickly became apparent he needed some help, but was not willing to get professional help. He wanted to learn it on his own.

51-year-old Fairmount man electrocuted working on power to his garage, police say | syracuse.com

Here is another story of someone who isn't going to be there for their family or friends because of an accident. Any electrician will tell you they have gotten zapped in their career... It is common. If you are not well versed on a subject, ask.. If the pro's recommend you get help, LISTEN!, don't take offence.... It may save your life!

We all had to learn, no one is born with the knowledge... A meter is not optional... it can save your life. I depend on mine every day.

Sorry for the rant,
Off the soapbox

 

[Redlands Okie]

 

[Stimw]

I guess no Electricians have ever been electrocuted on the job? (not by the state)
With every trade there are risks and too often the pro will get hit also.
With electric I will quote Ronald Reagan "trust but verify".
I sold a 3 phase Ironworker to a guy with a single to 3 phase converter that I made.
I showed him that it worked and gave him a schematic on how to hook it up.
He called me 2 days later saying that he hired an electrician to hook it up and the electrician called me "a con man" that you can't get 3 ph from single!
I told him, you saw it run! Find a REAL electrician!

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Not all electricians are educated, trained, and apprenticed equally... There are journeyman electricians and then there are romex pullers.

 

[3Ts]

I told him, you saw it run! Find a REAL electrician!

Unfortunately there aren't many REAL electricians out there.
- I've seen an electrician wire a circuit with 40 amps on a neutral 12 ga wire
- I've seen someone with yellow romex to a 30 amp outlet and breaker. I asked about that and was told it was done right because an electrician did it.

The real question is how does one find a REAL electrician?

 

[mbohuntr]

I guess no Electricians have ever been electrocuted on the job? (not by the state)
With every trade there are risks and too often the pro will get hit also.
With electric I will quote Ronald Reagan "trust but verify".

Please re-read my post..

 

[jaxs]

Unfortunately there aren't many REAL electricians out there.
- I've seen an electrician wire a circuit with 40 amps on a neutral 12 ga wire
- I've seen someone with yellow romex to a 30 amp outlet and breaker. I asked about that and was told it was done right because an electrician did it.

The real question is how does one find a REAL electrician?

I can't speak about other states but from 40 years in the building trades I certainly can about Texas. If the truth was known,I wager neither person in your two examples actually held a license. The majority of my experience was overseeing construction and maintenance of buildings owned by my employers which brought me in contact with countless contractors and their workmen. I rarly had occasion to question electrical work but never once anything so egregious as those examples. On the other hand,other trades are saturated with unskilled people(owners,managers and workmen alike). To answer your question"How does one find a REAL electrician?) have them pull a permit if required by your local jurisdiction. If the job doesn't call for permitting,ask for their license number. You can confirm any license by phone or the net at Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation. In the unlikely event you have something like those examples,call the local jurisdiction or TDLR with the license #. You are at your own risk with plumbers and hvac contractors.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Recently a gentleman was asking about putting in a salvaged 3ph. motor starter for his single phase shop. It quickly became apparent he needed some help, but was not willing to get professional help. He wanted to learn it on his own.

51-year-old Fairmount man electrocuted working on power to his garage, police say | syracuse.com

Here is another story of someone who isn't going to be there for their family or friends because of an accident. Any electrician will tell you they have gotten zapped in their career... It is common. If you are not well versed on a subject, ask.. If the pro's recommend you get help, LISTEN!, don't take offence.... It may save your life!

We all had to learn, no one is born with the knowledge... A meter is not optional... it can save your life. I depend on mine every day.

Sorry for the rant,
Off the soapbox

I know of one person on TBN recently who asked about wiring a motor starter, and got the help he needed. And his motor starter works fine.
Electricity is not some black magic mystery, it is very easy to understand. Like others said, not all electricians are good. I recently changed out a photo cell that was wired wrong by an electrician. One time an electrician on a job of mine cut a live 15kv cable and lived. But the best one was a plumber who put a wet tap on a 15kv conduit..

I know some electricians that cant wire a 3way switch without help.

One recently told me a lighting contactor was 240v. I was sure it wasnt, so got my meter and proved him wrong.

And I've made my share of mistakes, lol.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Good advice, be careful...electricity and all sorts of mechanical things as well. Most accidents people in a hurry. Take your time.
Never, ever work on a live circuit! Throw the main breaker. There are inexpensive polarity testers. Never assume power is off but be sure it is.
An extra minute can save injury or life.
I use six extra jackstands before getting under a car. People think I'm crazy!

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Since you mentioned testers, i bought one once that flat out didnt work. Fortunately i tried it first on a known energized circuit, which it indicated was dead. So you cant always trust your tester.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I had to explain to a long time mostly industrial electrician why he was getting voltage on unused conductors running with others in a conduit. He seemed baffled, like he had no idea how electricity was generated.

Yeah. It's why I left the trade.

 

[mbohuntr]

Wow! Most of you completely missed the point..... None of us is born with electrical knowledge, and each one of us have a different skill set. That wasn't the point at all.

Everybody has a story about an "ELECTRICIAN" that didn't know something.

If you do not know the difference between 3ph, and 1ph, and you're playin with it, maybe you should ask... If you have never heard of Live-dead-live, maybe you should ask before you touch the panel box.

You don't need a degree to do wiring, but doing it wrong can be fatal. There is no shame in asking for help, and admitting you don't know something.

That's all I was trying to say...I went through a 4 yr apprenticeship, and got a degree, but someone can always teach me something new, or I stop and get some advice from a more experienced journeyman if I'm unsure what i'm doing.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

So which member of TBN were you refering to in post 1? The one i referred to, that was putting in a 3ph converter in his shop, did know the difference. What he didnt know was details on the 3 ph converter, so he did ask questions, and got an answer, and got his 3 ph converter running without issue.

Unless there was another 3ph converter thread instead, the one i referenced doesnt support your point. Maybe i missed the thread

Working with electric is like driving a car, none of us was born with the knowledge, but it's not hard to learn. You can have accidents doing both, most aren't fatal, some are. Just because some people can't drive and they wind up dead, i guess that means no one should try to learn, and they all should hire a driver to do it for them, instead of touching the steering wheel themselves.

 

[newbury]

<snip> To answer your question"How does one find a REAL electrician?) have them pull a permit if required by your local jurisdiction. If the job doesn't call for permitting,ask for their license number. You can confirm any license by phone or the net at Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation. In the unlikely event you have something like those examples,call the local jurisdiction or TDLR with the license #. You are at your own risk with plumbers and hvac contractors.

And do not trust them if they say it doesn't need a permit/inspection.
I've houses in several different jurisdictions. Fairfax County, Va is strict and code requirements are updated frequently. I wouldn't be surprised if they made a permit required to change a light bulb. Itawamba County, Mississippi is lax. No permit/inspection required out in the country.

I've "interviewed" "electricians" for work on my houses in Fairfax and immediately crossed them off my list if they told me "don't really need a permit" when I knew it did. Or if I was told that a permit will mean just more $$ because they will have to "pull" the permit and get inspection so skip it.

I view electricity and gas lines as much more dangerous than HVAC or plumbing. I don't know the numbers but I bet more houses are QUICKLY destroyed by bad electrical wiring than by bad plumbing.

 

[mbohuntr]

So which member of TBN were you refering to in post 1? The one i referred to, that was putting in a 3ph converter in his shop, did know the difference. What he didnt know was details on the 3 ph converter, so he did ask questions, and got an answer, and got his 3 ph converter running without issue.

Unless there was another 3ph converter thread instead, the one i referenced doesnt support your point. Maybe i missed the thread

Working with electric is like driving a car, none of us was born with the knowledge, but it's not hard to learn. You can have accidents doing both, most aren't fatal, some are. Just because some people can't drive and they wind up dead, i guess that means no one should try to learn, and they all should hire a driver to do it for them, instead of touching the steering wheel themselves.

Not dropping names, not the point, and that wasn't the poster.. The poster did not understand the basic purpose of a starter circuit, and when it was suggested to seek out a qualified electrician, they were rather indignant and said they can learn by doing, and people shouldn't be afraid to learn things themselves.. this is coming from memory, and not exactly quoted.
Either way, it is a good recipe for smoke and sparks. Maybe you get it right, maybe you die.. maybe you burn down your home with your family in it...
I have seen scorch marks where someone was standing before they died, another friends home burn down, and personally smoked circuitry because I didn't understand what I was touching.. this stuff is serious and not a "Hold my beer" hobby..

 

[CobyRupert]

Like a lot of subjects, people that know a little about electricity are more dangerous than people who don't know anything at all.

I really hope someone didn't claim "I can learn electricity by doing" - No you can't.

 

[MitchellB]

I helped my grandson replace a 3 wire stove cable & outlet to a 4 wire setup. I jokingly told him, trying to impress upon him to be careful, "You only get to scream ouch once." Actually, I doubt you'd even be able to scream in some cases.

 

[DaveNJ]

I do this every time I use one.

Since you mentioned testers, i bought one once that flat out didnt work. Fortunately i tried it first on a known energized circuit, which it indicated was dead. So you cant always trust your tester.

 

[CobyRupert]

You may think you know about electricity, and even realize there's thing you don't know (so they get ignored if everything works). But I guarantee there are aspects you don't even know that you don't know. And you know it.

Like Rumsfeld said:
"there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know"