Digging post holes

[centex]

I started rebuilding my fences a couple of weeks ago. So far I have dug about 60 holes using a 3PT PHD. 55 of the holes were very easy even using a 12' auger on several of them but the other five were h%&*. I am using a 9" auger for most holes but it would not make progress when I got into rock so after going through 30 or so shear bolts I bought a 6" auger from TSC. It actually did pretty good and got through some rock and finished one hole (my $90 hole) before one of the cutting edges broke at the mounting holes. It would have cost $22 to replace the cutting edge but the auger cost $90 so I bought good heavy duty 6" auger for the rock (limestone which actually fractures fairly easily). The other 4 holes ended up being mostly dug by hand using digging bars to break up the rocks. I have at least 150 holes to go and I am now moving into an area where there are lots of rocks. It is really painful to have see a $30K tractor just sit there an watch me dig inches an hour with a the digging bar. I looked around for augers that were designed for boring in rock but they are exorbitantly expensive (~$700 and up) and made for special diggers (~$3600 and up). I thought about buying one and making an adapter for my PHD (things seem less exorbitant after an hour with a digging bar) but I am afraid it would just break shear bolts and not actually dig.

I am spacing my posts 40' apart and putting 2 t-posts in between them. Driving the t-posts is sometimes easy but many are hard. I looked at power drivers but alas they are also over my budget so I guess I will just develop more muscles and stay in shape using the manual driver. This retired life is fun.

 

[DavidH]

centex: I'm looking at post hole diggers and will probably get a bucket mounted auger for the extra down pressure. I'm looking at Rhinos and every tractor place says to get the Beltec augers that will fit the rhinos. The auger that looks like an oil well auger goes for $800 and the one I'll get goes for $250 for the 9inch. They should fit your post hole digger without modification.

 

[centex]

DaveH, the Belltec augers that I saw were made for the square shaft of the Belltec machine and would not fit my PHD which has a 2" round shaft. It sounds like they make a round shaft auger so maybe I can find one. Their digging machines are impressive but way too expensive for anyone not in the fence build business full time.

I am not sure you need down pressure if you are not boring through solid rock and even then if you have much pressure you will overload the PTO shaft and cut the shear bolt. I found that without large rocks or solid rock the auger digs in quite fast. My only problems have been where there are large rocks. In these I have had to break up the rocks using my digging bars. In one hole I hit a solid rock ledge at 1' and had to bore though it. Here an agessive bit on the auger and down pressure would have helped. The agressive bit would have broken up rock instead of me having to do it by hand and the down pressure would have helped. The hardest holes are the ones where you keep hitting large hard rocks towards the side of the hole. Since the auger hits them intermittently it tends to grab and break the shear pin and quickly dull the outer cutting edge of the auger bit.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

I'll have to look for it but I have found a source in California that will sell weld up auger kits. I got my twelve and sixteen inch ones from them.

Before I wised up I bought my adapters for the different types of styles of bits from Belltec. BTW they have a great auger just for low pressure applications in limestone.

Sit down.

Grab something that's not valuable nor fragile nor too hard cause something's gonna get squeezed.

They only want twenty two hundred for the eight incher.

The reason I bought the weld ups is I do everything a little different from everyone else, character flaw, first to admit it.

I went with the pengo style and all the bits have the carbide silver soldered on them. It makes all the difference in the world.

Going through the rock you describe is best done with power and pressure.

A Texoma or Sterling rig will probably cost you seventy five dollars an hour with at least a four hour minimum. If you have all your holes marked and are ready it might be the best money you ever spent.

For your t posts you can purchase a two inch auger that will work off your tractor. It'll do fine.

 

[centex]

I just pulled up the Belltec web site and they are located in Belton, TX which is only about 50 miles from me. I think I will go visit them and see if I can get a solution to my hole digging problems.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

They were great to work with over the phone for me. Like I said, I bought adapters cause my Lowes auger head comes with a two inch hex shaft. I had access to one and five eighths hex, two inch round, two and half inch round, and two inch square augers to my heart's content. so I bought adapters.

If you're serious about that low pressure auger for rock they have I can find the name of the company in California where I bought my kits.

Their owner claimed to have the same auger combination for almost a thousand less.

Little Beaver also down there near you makes some interesting augers. They have a rock bit for their augers that's a stepped point affair with carbide tips. I've got two of them, four and eight inch, for my hydraulic Beaver. They work awright but real slow.

The company California gets all it's tips carbided here in Dallas. I visited the place and the process is neater than having a dog who can paint the house.

They induction weld the carbide on to the tips. They don't need gloves or dark glasses.

It's like a two pronged fork with big tongs. You can stick your finger between the tongs and nothing. But you stick the tooth to be carbided in there and in seconds it's bright red, a dab of silver solder along with the carbide and you put it over to the side to cool, done deal.

I spent some money there on my visit. But the entertainment value was worth it not to mention that I got bring home all kinds of neat stuff.

One of the problems I've noticed with the carbided pengo fishtails is the pieces of carbide are straight across from each other. So after awhile you have the fishtail itself wore out between where the carbide is welded. So I figured the right way to carbide the fishtail was to alternate the placement of the carbides so that one side would cut across the dead space across from it. They do it with the tooth placement. The teeth on your flight head are aligned so that one side makes cuts and the other side of the flight head catches the area missed.

I pointed that out to the owner and he was like a grandma with pictures of grandbabies. I got me some fishtails made just that way. He'd thought like me but it seems most folks don't get it. Birds of a feather will get together and the fur will fly you might say.

I also picked up some really neat stuff for applying to bits. It's fractured pieces of carbide in a matrix I think you'd call it.

What they use it for is when these auger trucks like Texomas etc get into real hard stuff they have bits that look like holesaws. They're made out of half inch wall casing material. Then you apply this fractured carbide matrix stuff to the lip of the casing. The concept is comparable to the diamond dust they use for concrete coring bits.

One of my customer-buds has a drilling company. They have some real specialized equipment. He once hauled his little Bayshore to Tennessee and drilled one forty foot hole for ten grand. They had another drilling company call them over to Ft Worth cause they got down to twenty feet and could go no further and it was tearing up their bits.

They set up their tracked machine and attacked it with a bit like I described. When they brought it up they had a section of railroad track in it. So the stuff is tougher than a mother in law's heart.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Here is a picture of some augers with the pengo system. The two on the left are my old ones for the Little Beaver Hydraulic. I don't know if you can make it out but both of those fishtails (pilots) are severely worn except for where the carbide chips are. Another thing about those is the teeth have been modified.

I picked up the teeth and found them to not be as aggressive in attitude as I like when the clay is dry and harder than a bad girl's heart. So I put them in the forge and when they were plenty warm I gently curved them down. I was very lucky in the first attempt was successful and made a big difference. They now have attitude.

The auger on the right is my weld up and with one of those special fishtails I mentioned. I use this auger for post holes and some piers for brick columns. It will dig in the limestone but it's slow. In wet clay I have to hold it up or it will bite off more than any of us can chew.

When I was a young man working with my dad fencing I learned a very important lesson about power diggers. Then we used two man Groundhogs, similar to the two man Generals you can rent. I noticed that when the ground was dry we could have two men pushing down on the handles and a third man standing on top of the handles for down pressure and the smoke would just boil out of the hole. But it wouldn't dig much. We could pull the auger out of the hole and look at the fishtail and see just about a quarter on an inch wore off the corners. Change out the fishtail for a new one and it would dig like it should.

I've been working around farmers or such and they have a PTO post hole digger with a man hanging on to a piece of pipe out off to one side to get it to dig. I've stopped them. Cut a piece of bucket edge or grader blade. Weld it to the business end of their auger and watch it dig like it should. Most folks just don't seem to get it that the auger is like a drill bit. A sharp one will make it easy. A dull one will make you wanna get a divorce even if you're not even married or even thinking about it.

 

[jimgerken]

I , for one, would really appreciate the information about the California Auger weld-up kits. Thanks! Harv, you get into some interesting stuff. Makes me wish I worked for you.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Makes me wish I worked for you.

If you listen very carefully you'll hear a loud gasp. It isn't the end of the world. It's those who have worked with me recalling the adventure! Seriously, I don't play well with others and that doesn't bother me. Shamefull I know but it is what it is.

That's

Drilling and Trenching Supply 1-800-331 9988

The girl answering the phone wasn't carrying a full load to the top but if you can get past her you'll be in auger knowledge heaven.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Here's another picture of the twelve inch auger. The kit gave me a thirty inch long piece of pipe. I tossed it and replaced it with one sixty inches long.

If you can see it I've got a piece of two inch hex that fits inside the pipe so I can shorten or lengthen the auger as required.

It's a simple modification but I feel an important one.

The same extension goes into the sixteen inch auger.

That allows me to go twelve feet deep when I bury the auger motor into the hole until the frame of the quick attach stops us.