diesel "upgrades"

[Diamondpilot]

As stated previously I have a 2003 Chev D/max. You are wrong, gross is 9200, listed payload is I believe 3300 lbs. I have had 2 ton in it on more than one occassion and it handled the weight just fine. I also have a 2700 lb empty, as in no water, etc, 11 1/2 foot truck camper which it also handles fine. I did put on airbags to help with the camper and a rear swaybar because the weight is up high, but it handles it very well.

You obviously do no care for GM and that is fine, we all have our preferences, but your statement about a 1400 lb payload is completely incorrect and the comments on the tranny are also not accurate. The allison is without a doubt the BEST tranny in a diesel pu, just like the cummins is the BEST engine.

I know 2 people with GM 2500 Dmax series trucks. One is a 05 and the other is a 06 and both clearly state the GVWR oh the door sticker and its 8,800#. My 05 GM 3500 Dmax was 9,900#.

After 07.5 they upped the GVWR but I have never seen a pre 07 with more than 8,800# GVWR.

There is no way a GM 2500 Dmax weighs 5,900# like your math says. That is what my 08 Nissan Titan weighs, actually 5,680# but close enough. Any diesel truck is going to push 7,200# minimum. Most are right at 7,500# with the Fords being the heaviest. The manufactures play with the numbers. Ford included. When they state max payload its a gas truck with the heaviest suspension and the least options. IE: a Plain Jane work truck with a regular cab and long bed. Then that truck would be about 5,500# giving you a 3,300# with its 8,800# GVWR.


I tell all my customers to weight the truck they are going to use with them in it and 3/4 tank of fuel. That will give you a accurate reading since most leave with a full tank and stop at about 1/4 tank. Take this number and deduct it from the GVWR on the drivers door sticker. This will give you the max payload.

I do not doubt you had them much weight on yours. I have had 1,700# on a Ranger and nearly 2,800# on a 5' bed Super Crew F-150. We have all overloaded them.


Chris

 

[Storm56]

I know 2 people with GM 2500 Dmax series trucks. One is a 05 and the other is a 06 and both clearly state the GVWR oh the door sticker and its 8,800#. My 05 GM 3500 Dmax was 9,900#.

After 07.5 they upped the GVWR but I have never seen a pre 07 with more than 8,800# GVWR.




Chris

Attached is a pic of the GVW off the door of my 03 truck, sure looks like 9200 GVW to me. Also I do not have access to the gross payload data, but I will tomorrow and I will attach a pic of that too.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I see yours is clearly 9,200#. I never said it was not, just never seen one over 8,800# prior to 07.5 The curb weight on a 2011 is listed at 7,387# with no fuel or passengers. It list the GVWR of 10,000# so lets say the truck with fuel and driver is at 7,700# it would allow for a max payload on a new one of 2,300#

I know the 05 and 06 weighs about the same and the one's I am familiar with has a 8,800# GVWR so that would allow for 1,400# payload.

GM has done a lot of work on this new truck. I have stated before that I am really impressed with the leaps forward they have made to keep up with the competition. They always had a good power-train but lacked in the brakes and chassis dept.

Anyway, back to the original topic. I would pass on any truck by any manufacture with any aftermarket stuff. This is coming from a guy who has run chips, large exhaust, and aftermarket intakes for over 10 years now with no issues what so ever. You just never know what its been put though prior to you buying it. I would not worry about the engine nearly as much as the tranny slipping from the extra power. Its well know that the Allison is at the top of its class but the 2 things it does not like is heat and extra power. They can lead to expensive repairs.

Chris

 

[Highbeam]

I'll go further and say that it is foolish to caculate payload capacity any way other than by weighing the empty truck and subtracting that from the GVWR on the sticker. Your little "payload rating" from a brochure is not on the sticker because it is not a legal rating, just like the "tow capacity". Those two figures are marketing numbers that are not real, legal, or applicable when towing or hauling.

My F350 has an actual legal payload capacity of 2400#. Hauling a big slide in camper is almost always illegal on a SRW truck. You can of course choose to exceed your ratings and roll the dice but don't come onto a site where people know what they are talking about and say that the stickered ratings are superceded by mumbo jumbo marketing brochures.

 

[Storm56]

I'll go further and say that it is foolish to caculate payload capacity any way other than by weighing the empty truck and subtracting that from the GVWR on the sticker. Your little "payload rating" from a brochure is not on the sticker because it is not a legal rating, just like the "tow capacity". Those two figures are marketing numbers that are not real, legal, or applicable when towing or hauling.

My F350 has an actual legal payload capacity of 2400#. Hauling a big slide in camper is almost always illegal on a SRW truck. You can of course choose to exceed your ratings and roll the dice but don't come onto a site where people know what they are talking about and say that the stickered ratings are superceded by mumbo jumbo marketing brochures.

My father was a truck driver most of his life, never had a chargeable accident. He taught me safety. I have driven heavy duty trucks and been pulling trailers since I was 16. I am 53 now and I never had an accident while towing or driving heavy loads, so I do not need to be counciled on safety.

There is a difference between advertised payload by any mfg and the gvw. If any of the heavy duty trucks were rated on gvw for what they are capable of, only commercial people would buy them because of the license cost and the fact that most insurance companies would not insure them as private passenger vehicles. Most insurers in PA anyway, limit a PPA to 10,000 gvw. Anything over that must go commercial. Would definitely affect sales, and we cannot have that.

If the mfg advertises that the payload is 3500 lb, then that vehicle is capable of handling a 3500 lb payload. Now I guarantee you that will not mean squat if you get pulled over and are overweight by the law enforcement establishment. I fully understand that on "paper" there is not for instance, 3500 lb available when the truck is weighed and subtracted from the gvw. That does not mean the vehicle is not capable of handling the load.

And by the way I do know what I am talking about and I will gladly debate this issue. So if you wish to use the gvw rating and stay within legal registered wight limits, you are correct. But on the other hand, if the mfg states in their brochure that the vehicle can handle for example say a 3500 lb payload, they must stand behind it. As stated earlier, it may exceed the gvw and you will be fined, if caught and weighed, but the vehicle is safe to carry that load.

 

[Highbeam]

So you choose to roll the dice, hoping that it is safe and defying the ratings of the vehicle. It's a personal decision for sure. Like drinking and driving I suppose.

Do you know who writes those shiney sales brochures? Do you think those marketing people know what is "safe"? Before depending on the shiny sales brochure, be sure to read the very very fine print. There will most likely be some sort of asterisk leading to a catch all that says the 3500lb payload, for example, is a maximum depending on configuration.

 

[Soundguy]

I bet int he case of an accident, and a lawyer got ahold of the idea that the truck was over legal load.. then thet might be a bad thing for the driver.. even if they did have a glossy sales brochure... ( might be a seperate legal issue too! )

soundguy

So you choose to roll the dice, hoping that it is safe and defying the ratings of the vehicle. It's a personal decision for sure. Like drinking and driving I suppose.

Do you know who writes those shiney sales brochures? Do you think those marketing people know what is "safe"? Before depending on the shiny sales brochure, be sure to read the very very fine print. There will most likely be some sort of asterisk leading to a catch all that says the 3500lb payload, for example, is a maximum depending on configuration.

 

[Storm56]

All I have to do to be "safe" then is register my vehicle for a higher gvw. All it takes is a few minutes, one form, and some more cash for my license. Then I am "safe". If the state allows me to simply raise my gvw by paying them more, and it does, what are the happy lawyers going to do now? Sue the state for allowing me to raise the gvw so I was not over weight?

You guys have obviously not figured out that it is all about the money. Opinions vary, I could go on but I see no point in it. What I can tell you with certainty is that my truck has NO problem with the loads that I carry, no driving problems and no stopping problems, and if I pay the state higher license fees no legal problems either. It is NOT "rolling the dice".

That said I realize that everything has its limits. I can assure you my truck does not have problems with 3500 lb payloads, which is within the mfg specs. 5000 lbs may be another matter.

 

[Highbeam]

Ah, you are mistaken again storm. You can not change the stickered GVWR of your truck. You can change the registered weight as you describe by paying for it. No amount of modifications or payment will relieve you from the responsibilities of that door jamb sticker. It is tied to your VIN.

Sheesh. I'm not perfect either. I take a risk and exceed the GVWR on occasion but I know the risk and don't recommend others do the same without also knowing the risks. My truck, like yours, seems very capable of slight overloading. It IS rolling the dice, make no mistake.

Oh yes, you have it stuck in your head that 3500 is within the manufacturer's specs. Is that the glossy brochure with the disclaimers or is that on the actual door jamb sticker?

Good discussion though. I'm glad you brought up the registered GVWR as it has fooled more than one person. My old half ton chevy was registered for 10,000# GVWR when I got it and the F350 I now drive was only at 8000# GVWR when I bought it. It is important for folks to make sure that the registered GVWR to be at least as high as the rated GVWR.

 

[Storm56]

Ah, you are mistaken again storm. You can not change the stickered GVWR of your truck. You can change the registered weight as you describe by paying for it. No amount of modifications or payment will relieve you from the responsibilities of that door jamb sticker. It is tied to your VIN.

Sheesh. I'm not perfect either. I take a risk and exceed the GVWR on occasion but I know the risk and don't recommend others do the same without also knowing the risks. My truck, like yours, seems very capable of slight overloading. It IS rolling the dice, make no mistake.

Oh yes, you have it stuck in your head that 3500 is within the manufacturer's specs. Is that the glossy brochure with the disclaimers or is that on the actual door jamb sticker?

Good discussion though. I'm glad you brought up the registered GVWR as it has fooled more than one person. My old half ton chevy was registered for 10,000# GVWR when I got it and the F350 I now drive was only at 8000# GVWR when I bought it. It is important for folks to make sure that the registered GVWR to be at least as high as the rated GVWR.

I positively am NOT mistaken. PA allows you to jump the weight of your truck one step. So I can go from 9200 gvw to 9900 gvw. One form and about $80. Have several friends that use their trucks commercially and did just that to avoid any overweight fines if they get stopped.

When are you going to understand the gvw on the heavy duty pickups is set at a licensing and price point? The trucks WILL handle the stated payloads in the glossy brochures.

The only thing I am "rolling the dice" on is getting caught over weight.

As I stated - Opinions vary

 

[Soundguy]

does it let you register for more than the door sticker says?

and I assume not all states do this.. so blanket statements don't apply..

soundguy

All I have to do to be "safe" then is register my vehicle for a higher gvw. All it takes is a few minutes, one form, and some more cash for my license. Then I am "safe". If the state allows me to simply raise my gvw by paying them more, and it does, what are the happy lawyers going to do now? Sue the state for allowing me to raise the gvw so I was not over weight?

You guys have obviously not figured out that it is all about the money. Opinions vary, I could go on but I see no point in it. What I can tell you with certainty is that my truck has NO problem with the loads that I carry, no driving problems and no stopping problems, and if I pay the state higher license fees no legal problems either. It is NOT "rolling the dice".

That said I realize that everything has its limits. I can assure you my truck does not have problems with 3500 lb payloads, which is within the mfg specs. 5000 lbs may be another matter.

 

[Ryan03]

Found a used 06 chevy 2500 4x4 crew like I want w/ 50k. Dealer is giving me GOOD money for my 1/2 ton pickup.

One problem though, truck has a lot of crap on it.

Here is a list of the stuff in question.

"Banks Power components (Banks Ram-Air Intake System, Banks Six-Gun Diesel Tuner, Banks Monster Exhaust, Banks DynaFact Instrumentation with Boost and Exhaust Temperature gauges), Hensley TrailerSaver TS3 Air Ride 5th wheel hitch with SaverSlide, Tekonsha Prodigy Trailer Brake Control."

I wanted a brake controller anyway, but is the other stuff good or bad? I generally tend to be of the opinion "if it aint broke dont fix it".

Run away or jump on it for 30k?(really 25k, they offered me 23 for a truck worth 18k)

I would pass and keep looking. In my experience, those who spend lots of coin adding power to their vehicles usualy like to use it, me included. I have had my Dmax chipped since 2003 and 7k miles, it now has 107k. I am running one of those coal rolling,tire burning, Edge juice chips mentioned earlier {it was even a discounted reman}, and i am not ashamed to say it. Banks makes some nice stuff, but if one were to research they're particular make, could easily find better programming than banks offers, such as from Kennedy Diesel for the DMax .

Bottom line, if the previouse owner was a moron the truck could be a real problem, You have no real way of knowing, so I would recomend you spend your 30k somewhere else.

 

[CCOUGHRAN1]

All I have to do to be "safe" then is register my vehicle for a higher gvw. All it takes is a few minutes, one form, and some more cash for my license. Then I am "safe". If the state allows me to simply raise my gvw by paying them more, and it does, what are the happy lawyers going to do now? Sue the state for allowing me to raise the gvw so I was not over weight?

You guys have obviously not figured out that it is all about the money. Opinions vary, I could go on but I see no point in it. What I can tell you with certainty is that my truck has NO problem with the loads that I carry, no driving problems and no stopping problems, and if I pay the state higher license fees no legal problems either. It is NOT "rolling the dice".

That said I realize that everything has its limits. I can assure you my truck does not have problems with 3500 lb payloads, which is within the mfg specs. 5000 lbs may be another matter.

Bingo! Here in Texas I can register my truck for as much as I am willing to pay for. Provided my license class is high enough, and the tire load ratings are not exceeded, I am "safe":laughing: Take a 2000 F250 with a 8800# rating, and 4 235/85r16 tires rated at 3042# each, I can now register my truck to haul 15k(or any other weight, provided I am willing to pay for it) if I want, but realistically, if the DOT enforcement check, I am only legal for 6084# on each axle, a total of 12,168#.....not 8800#.

 

[Storm56]

I am going to expand on this discussion just a bit more, then I am finished. The information I have been sharing with you guys came directly from the tech dept at GM. I had questions many years ago regarding this very subject when I bought my first truck camper and was in the process of buying a heavy duty truck to handle it. Specifically the advertised payload vs gvw was my main sticking point, just as some of you seem to be stuck on this point. The dealership owner was a personal friend of mine and to satisfy my situation he got a tech on line for me and he pretty much went over the whole deal.

So what it really boils down to is that the trucks are capable of handling the advertised loads, even though the gvw numbers do not support it. Again IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! Lots of customers buy these trucks for towing and do not need the capacity, they do not want to thrown into a commercial insurance situation, (remember the 10,000 gvw and private passenger deal), and high license costs for capacity they will never use. The mfg has to list a gvw as pretty much all states use gvw as a licensing base.

Now I am gonna tell you that I personally believe the engineer a whole lot more than something I read on an internet forum. His assurance and explanation made perfect sense to me and I accepted it. That plus I have been using my truck camper and also heavier loads for years without the slightest issue, just as he assured me it would, and it supports his explanation.

As previously stated I also understand that if I were to get stopped and weighed I am dead meat and will be looking at a hefty fine, however if I just increase my weight on the tag I am golden, as the previous poster noted. I also have some law enforcement friends and they assured me that as long as the truck does not look overloaded they will probably never bother me. They are really after the contractors etc and someone that is obviously overloaded.

The last scenario I am going to offer is this: Go buy a blazer, suburban, explorer, cherokee, durango or whatever and there is NO GVW. You can put whatever load you want on it and drive it anywhere and you cannot be fined! So legally I can put some unheard of amount of weight, for example 7000 lb in one of these vehicles and I am "safe" because there is no gvw on these vehicles! Plus the license cost is the same as a car, at least in PA.

So bottom line is that these heavy duty trucks will handle the advertised payload safely, although not legally unless you up the weight class on your license. Choose to believe whatever you want, I do not care. But remember one thing that is true in many situations. ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!

 

[Highbeam]

Even my motorcycle has a GVWR.

Good luck storm, we just disagree, no big deal. I believe the actual sticker in the door jamb that lists the equipment's rated capacity and you believe something else.

 

[Soundguy]

The last scenario I am going to offer is this: Go buy a blazer, suburban, explorer, cherokee, durango or whatever and there is NO GVW. You can put whatever load you want on it and drive it anywhere and you cannot be fined! So legally I can put some unheard of amount of weight, for example 7000 lb in one of these vehicles and I am "safe" because there is no gvw on these vehicles! Plus the license cost is the same as a car, at least in PA. !

Hmm.. I have a yukon.. same thing as a suburban.. it for sure has a gvw listed on it's door jamb sticker.

as for what's possible and what's leagal.. and what could get you sued in an accident.. I'd have to say that if you were over what the sticker said.. it would be a sticking point for a lawsuit. whether or not the truck will do more is kinda moot. We've all overloaded our vehicles at one time or another.. sure they will take some extra... it's extra risk and liability though. I moved up to a larger truck just to make sure i'd be safer pulling larger loads...

soundguy

 

[Storm56]

I really don't think you'd be wanting to put 6084 lbs. on your front axle. I think there's some misunderstand as to what registration weights really are. In Michigan, it starts out at 24K.



Sorry, you're all wet. Put the catnip down and read some stickers. You'll find GVW and GAWR figures.

Check out your REGISTRATION - NO gvw . They are treated like a station wagon.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I really don't think you'd be wanting to put 6084 lbs. on your front axle. I think there's some misunderstand as to what registration weights really are. In Michigan, it starts out at 24K.



Sorry, you're all wet. Put the catnip down and read some stickers. You'll find GVW and GAWR figures.

You are correct. Even the little Saturn I just sold in May had a MAX GVWR clearly stated on the door sticker along with ratings for both axles.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am going to expand on this discussion just a bit more, then I am finished. The information I have been sharing with you guys came directly from the tech dept at GM. I had questions many years ago regarding this very subject when I bought my first truck camper and was in the process of buying a heavy duty truck to handle it. Specifically the advertised payload vs gvw was my main sticking point, just as some of you seem to be stuck on this point. The dealership owner was a personal friend of mine and to satisfy my situation he got a tech on line for me and he pretty much went over the whole deal.

So what it really boils down to is that the trucks are capable of handling the advertised loads, even though the gvw numbers do not support it. Again IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! Lots of customers buy these trucks for towing and do not need the capacity, they do not want to thrown into a commercial insurance situation, (remember the 10,000 gvw and private passenger deal), and high license costs for capacity they will never use. The mfg has to list a gvw as pretty much all states use gvw as a licensing base.

Now I am gonna tell you that I personally believe the engineer a whole lot more than something I read on an internet forum. His assurance and explanation made perfect sense to me and I accepted it. That plus I have been using my truck camper and also heavier loads for years without the slightest issue, just as he assured me it would, and it supports his explanation.

As previously stated I also understand that if I were to get stopped and weighed I am dead meat and will be looking at a hefty fine, however if I just increase my weight on the tag I am golden, as the previous poster noted. I also have some law enforcement friends and they assured me that as long as the truck does not look overloaded they will probably never bother me. They are really after the contractors etc and someone that is obviously overloaded.

The last scenario I am going to offer is this: Go buy a blazer, suburban, explorer, cherokee, durango or whatever and there is NO GVW. You can put whatever load you want on it and drive it anywhere and you cannot be fined! So legally I can put some unheard of amount of weight, for example 7000 lb in one of these vehicles and I am "safe" because there is no gvw on these vehicles! Plus the license cost is the same as a car, at least in PA.

So bottom line is that these heavy duty trucks will handle the advertised payload safely, although not legally unless you up the weight class on your license. Choose to believe whatever you want, I do not care. But remember one thing that is true in many situations. ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!

I agree with everything you said with the exception of the NO GVWR on SUV's. Every vehicle has a max GVWR and ratings for each axle.

I know this is a sticky subject. My neighbors nephwey bought a 99 F-250 diesel. With him in it we weighed it at the scales and it left 800# for payload. Pretty pathetic but its what is legal.

I am no saint. I have overloaded every truck I have owned so far with the exception of my 08 Titan. Not that it cant do it, just have not needed too having Big Nasty sitting in the garage next to it (my 06 F-350 4x4 Diesel). This particular F-350 has towed 9,000# more than its limit for well over 600 miles without a complaint, 25,000#. I have had over 2,700# in a 5.5' bed on a 01 F-150. It was nearly twice the legal load and it handled it fine. Squatted it a lot but did not look like it was going to break.

We all take our chances. Advertised versus legal versus safe is a fine line.

Chris

 

[jpowell86]

This post definitely go a little off track from the OP. I probably wouldn't but the truck. I'm a younger guy and I know what I would do if I had that stuff on my own truck. I would keep looking.

As for the GVWR. Here's the definition of GVWR from wikipedia. If that is correct then the person would be right by saying the payload is the GVWR minus the curb weight.

According to the 2011 Chevy Silverado 3500HD web site. - Maximum payload capacity includes weight of driver, passengers, optional equipment and cargo.

Try this out. Go to the dimensions tab. It lists curb weights, Payloads and GVWR. Maybe this will clear some things up for someone I hope.

Here's something from Chevy's FAQs.

Q. What is the difference between Curb Weight and Gross Vehicle Weight?
A. Curb Weight is the weight of an empty vehicle (without payload or driver) with standard equipment, fuel, coolant, and oil. It is also known as the vehicle weight. Gross Vehicle Weight is the actual weight of the entire vehicle and its contents, including fuel and occupants