Diesel Trucks

[Anonymous Poster]

I will also state that diesels are not for everyone, I curse mine every time I change that 5 pound oil filter. It IS loud, the exhaust stinks in the winter, and the fuel does cost more per gallon(today anyways). If I didn't pull a trailer regularly, I don't know if I'd have one. That is because of the noise and the smell, not the "cost". The point I was trying to make with the $3000 more resale is that the diesel will not cost $5000 more than a gas to own in the long run, just up front. Look at it like air conditioning: costs $700 as an option, but will add the same $ when you sell it. And, as stated in my earlier post, the diesel saves me at least $.05 per mile, loaded or empty.
As far as the clutch, I have known people who can break anything. That dual mass flywheel does not like downshifts any more than a solid flywheel, nor do the springs in it like downshifts any more than those in a clutch disk. Manual transmissions are not for everyone, but they won't cost any more to maintain than an automatic of any brand, and they use a negligable amount of horsepower to spin.
BobinCols, I don't want to fault diesels, or make anyone think they are something that they are not. I think your point of being great for those who "need" them is right on. But, if I only had things I "need", my barn would be pretty empty! I hope if someone really just wants one, they treat themselves to it. It is worth it when you're going 70 in the fast lane @ 27,000# , passing a small truck pulling a pop-up camper!

 

[wroughtn_harv]

My bud with his 2002 Dodge diesel and eleven foot utility bed came by yesterday evening. I handed him the keys to Lucy and let him and his daughter take Lucy out for a spin. His first comment was about the power for a big truck and how quiet the Duramax is.

I have a friend who has a 2003 Dodge dually diesel. It is as quiet as the Duramax and the figures say has more power and torque.

I think the noise issue is going away with all the new ones. I haven't heard the new Powerstroke with the 6.0 litre (365 cubic inches). But I imagine to keep up with the competition they are real quiet too.

 

[Jeff396]

Thought this was interesting considering our discussion of justifying a diesels cost from an mpg standpoint. It is a top ten list of gas guzzlers and that GM has all but three of the spots surprised me. The three not made by GM are all exotics from Ferarri and Lamborghini. The complete list is at the bottom of the page.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://autos.msn.com/advice/windowshop.aspx?contentid=4018601&src=msn>http://autos.msn.com/advice/windowshop.aspx?contentid=4018601&src=msn</A>

Jeff

 

[em14]

Jeff,
I get much better mileage on my 02 Silverado with the 5.3 and automatic than the MSN reported … included is heavy use included off roading … I find this very hard to believe, and, as a matter of fact, I don’t believe it based on personal experience ….
Leo

 

[Jeff396]

Keep in mind that the govt. cracked down a while ago on what mpg the manufacturers reported on their stickers. It seemed that noone could match their claims in the real world. In response they seem to have gone the other way with more conservative testing procedures so nobody feels mislead. The ones listed probably are a bit lower than most would actually experience. However, assuming all makes are rated the same way and that a manufacturer wouldn't put a figure on the sticker which was lower than was allowed by whatever tests the govt requires them to use, they would still fall into the top 10.

Jeff

 

[JATO_RaT]

Bob, I just saw the new (to me anyway) commercials Dodge has about the quieter Cummins in the trucks. That would certainly make it something to consider for many more folks. It was my biggest objection. The simplicity of the Cummins is certainly a fantastic selling point. When I open the hood and look around, everything is identifiable and visible. Maybe after I get 400,000 miles on the Ford I'll replace it with the Dodge. What do you think they'll look like in 2012?

 

[rockyridgefarm]

the amazing thing about the new Dodge is that there is NO sound insulation on the hood underside. It is almost TOO quiet

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I love my 12 valve!!!! Lots of clacking!! /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

Nothing like pulling behind someone in traffic and they turn there head to look at you, but they only see your *grill* smiling back at them and you sounding like a semi!!

 

[Hank]

<font color=blue>the amazing thing about the new Dodge </font color=blue>

Just picked up my new Dodge, a 2003 Ram 3500 diesel. This is my first diesel. Moving from a gas Suburban to a diesel, it is a bit noisier, but noticably quieter than the other diesels I've encountered around town.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Hank, the new quieter Dodge certainly makes it a viable option down the road for me to consider. Prior to that, I just didn't want to spend that kind of money on a light truck that had to make that much noise simply to sit at idle. Obviously Cummins felt the need to get it quieter too. I can't tell you how many folks have refused to consider diesels because of the racket. My brother and brother in law both had 95 & 96 Dodges respectively with a Cummins diesel, both where sold within 15 months. Both went back to gas (different brands Ford and Chevy) because of the noise and because of nuisance things like front brake pads wearing quickly and interior rattles. I wonder if the new Fords will be quieter. The Duramax certainly is a big improvement as far as noise. I'll be looking out for the new Dodge truck with the diesel just to "not hear them". Good luck with your new truck. Rat...

 

[jtn]

I am a long time diesel truck owner and will never but another gasser. I bought my F-250 4X4 Supercab 7.3 diesel long bed in 1996 (it was one of the first 1997's produced). I think people are right in saying that unless you do a lot of heavy work with your truck you could buy a gasser and the only reason to buy a diesel is because you want one. My truck does not get used heavily but even for regular driving I much prefer the diesel. I have not had any cold weather problems. I usually let it warm up for about 3-5 minutes before driving away. I have the E40D tranny but next go around I intend to get the 6 speed manual.

JT

 

[jtn]

Harv,

The different power ratings and torque ratings are due to software. The 6.0 is an electronic engine (as was the 7.3) and the power and torque curves are determined by which version of software is in the engine. Software controls timing, boost, rail pressure, fuel used, (and several other parameters) and indirectly emissions. My guess is the 325 hp rating in the pickups burns a lot leaner than the 235 hp rating in the IH 4300. This may also be emissions controlled; I know the 6.0 is IH's Tier II engine but do not know whether pickups or medium duty trucks have more stringent standards.

I heard of several websites offering software code changes for the 7.3 to boost power and fuel effieiency. Of course the downside is the engine, once tweeked, will no longer pass emissions. It is only a matter of time before they spring up for the 6.0.

JT

 

[jtn]

Rat,

It may be quieter but according to Edmunds the 305 hp rating is not availible in California.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/dodge/rampickup3500/4drquadcablaramie4wdlbdrw57l8cyl5m/options.html?id=lin0727>Edmunds Link</A>

JT

Edited by MikePA to reduce length of URL which increased width of all posts in thread.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Hi JT, it doesn't suprise me. I don't know if it comes across to you, but when ever I see the car ratings, they always throw in * "except in California". Just what did we do to deserve this???? I know we have Hollywood out here with its batch of freaks, sure we have the SF Bay area and its, well lets just say peculularities and Southern CA with a large population of critters from another planet, but hey, most of them migrated here from the East coast. Why, why are we made to suffer like this? It's just not fair!

P.S. we will have soot traps on every diesel engine in a few short years. Can't wait to see this contraption and the costs. I suppose there will be a annual soot trap check for $53.00 plus another fee for a permit to operate a soot trap within the state. It should be a hoot. How much HP is the state allowing us here in CA?

 

[jtn]

Rat,

According to Edmunds there is a 235 hp diesel for CA.

I thought it had been determined that soot traps were impractical. My understanding was that they needed special tablets added all the time to disolve the particulate matter.

The navistar 6.0 uses EGR (exhaust gas recurculation) to reduce emissions. I believe all the heavy truck engine manufacturers have adapted EGR to meet emissions requirements. I do not know if the Cummins 5.9 has EGR for 2003 but it can not be too far off.

JT

 

[Trev]

Hi JT,

<font color=blue>My truck does not get used heavily but even for regular driving I much prefer the diesel.</font color=blue>

Why is that? What is the difference in "feel" between the two?

Tks,
Bob

 

[cowboydoc]

To answer a few questions. All of the diesels are now just about as quiet as a regular gasser. Not quite but darn close. When in the cab you'd be hard pressed to tell much of a difference. There have been numerous tests out and although Ford has won every one of them the others were right there. They were all neck and neck for the most part. With regard to mileage the dodge wins, chevy is second, and ford is third. Right now Dodges problem is they don't have a drivetrain that will hold up to the increased hp that Ford and Chevy are putting out and so they can't get their hp and torque numbers as high. The new HO cummins is only available as a six speed manual. The other problem cummins is having is that they aren't meeting emissions standards in CA with the higher hp motors.

The turbo lag that used to be there is gone on all three models. I would wait until next year if you are going to purchase the Chevy as it will be going to a six speed automatic and the newer turbo that Ford has. With Dodge you can't go wrong if you buy one with the manual. No way I would buy an automatic with the dodge. Still only a 4 speed and tons of problems with towing with them. For that matter I wouldn't buy the old Ford with an auto either. The new Ford with auto is a five speed and is beefed up to handle the extra hp and torque.

Overall if you go with a manual they all have six speed and you can't go wrong with any of them. With an auto though I would stick with Chevy or Ford. If you are going to buy this year go with Ford on the auto. Next year Chevy will have the six speed and I really believe Dodge has to step up to the plate with something that will compete with Ford and Chevy's heavy duty automatics.

 

[JATO_RaT]

I certainly am keeping my fingers crossed with my E4OD automatic on my 1993 Ford. With only 130,000 miles, I do have a error message on my O/D button that flashes indicating a problem. It shifts much sooner then it should and its probably just a matter of time before I will need to have a rebuilt or have mine rebuilt. Anyone know of some options here? Better made rebuilts available or is it possible to get an entirely different transmission without massive modifications? I do wish mine was a manual. My older Ford had a C6 and it was built like a tank and still with over 300,000 is still running like it was new. Major drawback was that it was a 3 speed and required I install a Gear Vendors overdrive. Thanks, Rat...

 

[cowboydoc]

If you do get a new transmission there a couple places. One is Brian's truck shop. They do make a pretty much indestructable transmission if you plan on keeping it. They are a bit pricey but well worth. There is also Suncoast and ATS builds a good one now out there in Utah.

 

[BobinCols]

Rat- If your trans goes, we have had good luck with rebuilt transmissions w/converters from your local Ford dealer (motorcraft rebuilt). These transmissions have had a lot of upgrades over the years. Jasper is not a bad choice also. The main thing is to clean out your old cooler real well or strap a new one on in front of your radiator and bypass the old one. Good luck.