Diesel Question

[75H2]

Disclaimer, I don't have a P/U, yet. Always wondered about this. I've read quite often that diesel engines have great power. But, the drawbacks are expensive maintenance costs and when things go bad, they go very bad. Are these units "fragile" when istalled in pickups because of their high state of tune, or is this an inherit risk of all oil burners? The reason I ask is that I can't recall reading about these problems with medium & heavy duty truck powerplants (Class 5 to 8). Even though the same powerplant is frequently installed in trucks ranging to 3/4 tons to true medium duty units.

My intent is not to start a flame war, just being inquisitive.

 

[rasimmo]

I believe there are several reasons for these engines bieing "fragile". The engineers who desingn these lighter trucks are trying to save as much weiht as possible, while still trying to make the most power. The big three manufacturers are constantly in a power war with each other to see who can make the most power and get the best fuel mileage. These trucks are more expensive to operate and repair. Fuel costs more (about 50cents/gal), filters cost more, uses 4 gallons of oil instead of 6 quarts, the list goes on adnd on. I currently own a diesel and never intend to be without one for my towing duties. If I did not do much towing I would not have one and would not reccommend it.

Disclaimer: I do not pretend to be an expert, just my 2 cents.

 

[Dmace]

Does maintenance cost more? Yes
Is it worth the extra maintenance cost and initial cost? Yes, in most cases.
Is a diesel engine "fragile"? No, unless it's not properly maintained. (or a Ford)
The Medium and Heavy Duty trucks get fleet maintenance and spend little time "sitting" unlike the majority of average homeowner diesels which don't put on 100k+ miles a year.
Our fleet diesel trucks (3/4 to 1 ton) go 300k + miles before major work.

 

[dstig1]

Does maintenance cost more? Yes
Is it worth the extra maintenance cost and initial cost? Yes, in most cases.
Is a diesel engine "fragile"? No, unless it's not properly maintained. (or a Ford)
The Medium and Heavy Duty trucks get fleet maintenance and spend little time "sitting" unlike the majority of average homeowner diesels which don't put on 100k+ miles a year.
Our fleet diesel trucks (3/4 to 1 ton) go 300k + miles before major work.

C'mon Dmace you know better. You know this is very situation dependent. In fact you note it in the next couple points - modern diesels do not like to sit around or be lightly used.

If this is a part time vehicle for just towing stuff once in a while, then you will likely have more trouble with a diesel than a gas engine. If you are going to use it a lot, then the question becomes "How are you going to use it?" Will you be towing heavy loads or hauling heavy loads daily or at least a couple times a week? If so then the initial cost and maintenance cost penalty of a diesel are probably worth it. If you aren't pushing those limits or your use is much less frequent then gas is probably a better choice. Much cheaper and they will tolerate low usage better. But if you are going to push limits on towing capacity and especially if you do it a lot then diesel is the way to go.

I went through this whole research process a few years back. Though I thought I wanted a diesel at the beginning, I realized that a gas engine was much better suited to my needs. I put maybe 4-5k miles on my truck a year. Most of it towing the tractor or hauling wood or something, but otherwise is sits a lot. I make sure to drive it at least once every 2 weeks to keep things from freezing up, but that isn't much in the grand scheme.

And if you just want it to drive around and aren't going to use it hard, get a smaller vehicle as it will save you a ton in initial cost and ongoing costs of fuel, maintenance etc. I'm always shocked by how much 3/4-1 ton truck parts cost...

 

[WM75Guy]

I always here people talk about how expensive maintenance is on a diesel. I have yet to see a big difference on an annual basis. Oil changes cost me $69.99 at the dealership, gas motor would be $29.99. Oil gets changed every 10,000 based on the GM driver info display, about twice a year on my 03, 3 times on the 08. My 05 Tahoe was changed every 5,000 miles so that is an extra $10 every 10,000 miles. Diesel is 12% higher right now, $3.69 vs $3.29 for unleaded at Murphy/Wallyworld. My diesels get at least 12% better mileage than a gas P/U, especially when hauling a trailer, so that is a wash. Injectors and pumps are expensive, mine were done under the 100,000 warranty/recall. But a gas motor needs tuneups which mine do not. My tailgate latch broke last week, the $1.59 plastic clip would be the same on a gas P/U. My 03 has 167,000 miles without any significant repair cost for the motor. I did have to rebuild the front diff when a bearing went bad, cost would have been the same for a gas motor.

As has been said in previous posts, it's rare to hear anyone say they wish they had bought a smaller tractor. But you do see posts where they wish they had a gas motor when something breaks in the diesel motor, but I don't see a lot of posts where someone says I wish I had a gas motor instead of a diesel when hauling a loaded trailer. My wife and I, we both love our diesels. I have factory duel 105 amp alternators, 100 amps at idle, helps charge the trailer batteries. Not available on a gas motor. Gas motors and diesels both have their places. That's why they sell both. You have to decide which is best for your situation.

 

[Case485Guy]

I dont think the Medium duty trucks go without problems, I know the ones at work have thier share of problems just like the 3.4 and 1 ton trucks. You just dont read about them as much cuz on most forums people arent running Med. duties and talking about repairs etc.
This is just my opinion...the HP war with the big 3 and the new emission laws on Diesels are driving up the owner ship costs of a diesel truck, really to the point its crazy to spend that kind of $ on truck..
With the cost of diesel at the pump and mark up on sticker price @ dealer for a diesel vs. a gasser, you have drive alot of miles to justify the $. If you haul alot or plan on running the truck several 100K in a short period of time a diesel might be better. I say "might" now, where I would have said"definetly" a few years ago.

 

[kenmac]

I had a gas burner , I sold it & bought the Diesel. Did I know it would cost me more when things broke on the Diesel, Injectors ,2 Batteries etc, etc,? Yes. Did I think it would be worth the Xtra going from a gas burner to a Diesel ? Yes. For me, it was worth it

 

[Diamondpilot]

While I love my diesels I dont know if I would buy another. The new Ford 6.2 for example is a very capable motor in a 3/4 ton truck. No way I would have it in a 1 ton though. Same for the GM 6.0 for most people and the Dodge 5.7.

Will they replace the diesel, no.

My friend just had to have some work done on a 02 Dmax. Injectors and the other items were nearly $5000

Chris

 

[JB4310]

Disclaimer, I don't have a P/U, yet. Always wondered about this. I've read quite often that diesel engines have great power. But, the drawbacks are expensive maintenance costs and when things go bad, they go very bad. Are these units "fragile" when istalled in pickups because of their high state of tune, or is this an inherit risk of all oil burners? The reason I ask is that I can't recall reading about these problems with medium & heavy duty truck powerplants (Class 5 to 8). Even though the same powerplant is frequently installed in trucks ranging to 3/4 tons to true medium duty units.

My intent is not to start a flame war, just being inquisitive.

The reason you don't hear complaints from the class 5-8 crowd is there is no viable gas alternative. No arm chair truckers squawking about maybe I should of gotten a gasser cause diesel fuel just went up another 25 cents.

It is what it is, the cost of doing business. I've never heard a diesel engine referred to as fragile, at least not Cummins, maybe the V-8's are a little more prone to maintenance issues. But it's not the engines fault just cause it's in a smaller truck. Like you said it's the same engine, but that cranked up HP could contribute some to the dilemma.

I think more it's the owners of the lighter rigs that are fragile, when they start adding up every penny in the difference in owning a diesel vs a gasser and realise the gasser would of been cheaper for them. Then the complaining is really gonna start.

That can't happen with the higher capacity trucks.

I'm on the borderline, I probably could get by with gasoline power even at 12,000 lbs every day, because I drive so few miles every year. But I could also easily justify the higher cost of a diesel power plant as a business expense.


JB

 

[kenmac]

My friend just had to have some work done on a 02 Dmax. Injectors and the other items were nearly $5000

Chris

Is that because it's 8 cyl & no room under the hood ? I only have 6 injectors & plenty of room under the hood. I can replace all 6 myself. If I owned a V8 with no room in the engine bay, I would also have the work done

 

[tessiers]

The other part of the maintenance deal is drive train, I have a 350 gasser and have never had any drivetrain issues, a good friend of mine has the same year model truck with diese. We haul very similar trailers with the same load. He is always fixing some drivetrain issue. The diesel has too much power for pickups. Who needs 0-60 times hauling 5 tons anyway?

 

[PoorMansCat]

I always here people talk about how expensive maintenance is on a diesel. I have yet to see a big difference on an annual basis. Oil changes cost me $69.99 at the dealership, gas motor would be $29.99. Oil gets changed every 10,000 based on the GM driver info display, about twice a year on my 03, 3 times on the 08. My 05 Tahoe was changed every 5,000 miles so that is an extra $10 every 10,000 miles. Diesel is 12% higher right now, $3.69 vs $3.29 for unleaded at Murphy/Wallyworld. My diesels get at least 12% better mileage than a gas P/U, especially when hauling a trailer, so that is a wash. Injectors and pumps are expensive, mine were done under the 100,000 warranty/recall. But a gas motor needs tuneups which mine do not. My tailgate latch broke last week, the $1.59 plastic clip would be the same on a gas P/U. My 03 has 167,000 miles without any significant repair cost for the motor. I did have to rebuild the front diff when a bearing went bad, cost would have been the same for a gas motor.

As has been said in previous posts, it's rare to hear anyone say they wish they had bought a smaller tractor. But you do see posts where they wish they had a gas motor when something breaks in the diesel motor, but I don't see a lot of posts where someone says I wish I had a gas motor instead of a diesel when hauling a loaded trailer. My wife and I, we both love our diesels. I have factory duel 105 amp alternators, 100 amps at idle, helps charge the trailer batteries. Not available on a gas motor. Gas motors and diesels both have their places. That's why they sell both. You have to decide which is best for your situation.

One thing I have noticed is that the cost of normal maintenance items for diesels had increaded dramatically...
The fuel filter for my 06 Dodge is $7.00 for a Fleetguard filter... The new "regen diesels" multiple filters are WAAAYYY higher!!.. The new Ford filters (there are two of them) are just rediculous.. The new diesel oils for the regen engines can't be pushed out to extended intervals where the old CI oil could......

 

[kenmac]

The other part of the maintenance deal is drive train, I have a 350 gasser and have never had any drivetrain issues, a good friend of mine has the same year model truck with diese. We haul very similar trailers with the same load. He is always fixing some drivetrain issue. The diesel has too much power for pickups. Who needs 0-60 times hauling 5 tons anyway?

That usually comes from someone adding more power ( chips, boxes, etc, ) to a drive train that wasn't designed for the x tra power. I know several that have done this and complain about a weak drive train in the truck:confused2:

 

[grsthegreat]

A friend of mine kept trying to get me to chip my 94 dodge diesel...telling me about all the great MPG and performance hes getting for doing it. I never did it, and mine is still running. His now sits with a dead engine. Ive not heard what is actually wrong with it yet, and i don't think hes torn into it yet. But i just believe that messing with the engines design parameters is just asking for problems. They design these motors to the absolute minimum they can get away with to save $$, so adding power to it cant be good thing.

I only routinely drive my 05 F350 maybe 1 day a week and during spring/summer i haul the 30' horse trailer alot. Otherwise it just sits. This probably isn't the best thing to do for a diesel, but i have no need of it for anything else. They say to change the oil every 7,500 miles...but that may take 2+ years. not sure if thats good thing to wait every 2-3 years or not.

 

[Willl]

my 94 dodge diesel,,,
They design these motors to the absolute minimum they can get away with to save $$, so adding power to it cant be good thing.

I thought you had a Cummins in there ?

 

[grsthegreat]

I thought you had a Cummins in there ?

It is a cummins, but its not a semi's engine. I asked the drealer about the possibility of increasing the pick up in the engine when i had the transmission rebuilt, and they WONT do it.

 

[kenmac]

They say to change the oil every 7,500 miles...but that may take 2+ years. not sure if thats good thing to wait every 2-3 years or not.

I use synthetic oil. I don't put 7,500 a year on my truck . I do change the oil once a year. These boxes (or what ever they call them) put alot of undue stress on a stock engine block & all the internal parts , the entire drive train. It dosen't matter the brand. Chevy, Ford etc,

 

[PoorMansCat]

It is a cummins, but its not a semi's engine. I asked the drealer about the possibility of increasing the pick up in the engine when i had the transmission rebuilt, and they WONT do it.

A dealership cannot legally alter the fueling of an engine unless they can certify that it still meets EPA requirements for that engine model/year configuration.
I have increased the power in my Dodge and it is a much better truck since doing it. The factory settings are for 50 state compliance, I do not plan on my truck ever getting to all 50 states, so I'm not worried about 50 state compliance.. The HP that I have added has actually made it easier on the rest of the truck when pulling heavy loads...

 

[WilliamBos]

While I love my diesels I dont know if I would buy another. The new Ford 6.2 for example is a very capable motor in a 3/4 ton truck. No way I would have it in a 1 ton though. Same for the GM 6.0 for most people and the Dodge 5.7.

Will they replace the diesel, no.

My friend just had to have some work done on a 02 Dmax. Injectors and the other items were nearly $5000

Chris

I agree totally!! I know I can justify a 2500HD for my next truck, but it will be a gas 6.0, just can't justify a DMAX. Wish they would put an Allison behind a 6.0 though.

 

[WilliamBos]

Is that because it's 8 cyl & no room under the hood ? I only have 6 injectors & plenty of room under the hood. I can replace all 6 myself. If I owned a V8 with no room in the engine bay, I would also have the work done

That has NOTHING to do with it, the injectors cost a fortune, and at flat rate they are pricey. And the injectors on the LB7 require the valve covers to come off. For every generation after that, that step is not required.