Diesel hard to start, boggs down,quits running

[crazyhorsemd]

I need some well seasoned advice. I'll get right to the point
Have a White 1370 4 cyl diesel, bought 6 years ago. Always rather hard to start, Starter turns over motor but if it doesn't start after 6-7 attempts the battery appears drained. New battery this year 1000 CCA, plenty of power!
Also, if it takes some time to crank, oil from the breather appears to come back out of the breather all over the battery. This has occurred since I got it. Oil level in breather checked, proper level...It does seem to start a little easier if I take the oil bath bowl off
Starting last fall, after starting, ( no new smoke..usual small amount white when starting) it runs fine, no new knocks, missing... after about 30 minutes it loses power over about 20 seconds and quits...then hard to crank and start. Change fuel filters last year, no sediment in glass bowl, drained tank and checked filter screens along system over winter, could not find anything "unusual" , water /sludge / excess sediment. Only thing I've noticed, I don't hear the thermostarter "Pop" before starting like I used to. I don't think this should effect the running only starting.
I'm still learning about Diesels...every day

appreciate any assistance from the experts with experience

Crazyhorsemd

 

[thepumpguysc]

There is a hidden filter inside the inj. pump inlet..
If your handy w/ wrenches.. shut off the fuel or pinch the line..
Remove the 15/16" inlet nut and spring.. With a small screwdriver hold the guts down and with a 90* scribe, reach in & pull up on the plastic filter.. blow it off & reinstall..
DO NOT let the internals come out.. good luck.

 

[Texasmark]

Hard starting can be low compression since compression is what heats the air so that the diesel mist will explode when injected.....I learned that on the first diesel tractor I bought. This one won't help hard starting, but if you fuel tank isn't vented or the vent isn't working you could develop a vapor lock condition, not due to heat but due to a vacuum in the tank...you're sucking fuel out of it but no air is coming in to replace the fuel so sooner or later you have a vacuum and when strong enough it will stop the engine from getting fuel.

 

[Jerry/MT]

I need some well seasoned advice. I'll get right to the point
Have a White 1370 4 cyl diesel, bought 6 years ago. Always rather hard to start, Starter turns over motor but if it doesn't start after 6-7 attempts the battery appears drained. New battery this year 1000 CCA, plenty of power!
Also, if it takes some time to crank, oil from the breather appears to come back out of the breather all over the battery. This has occurred since I got it. Oil level in breather checked, proper level...It does seem to start a little easier if I take the oil bath bowl off
Starting last fall, after starting, ( no new smoke..usual small amount white when starting) it runs fine, no new knocks, missing... after about 30 minutes it loses power over about 20 seconds and quits...then hard to crank and start. Change fuel filters last year, no sediment in glass bowl, drained tank and checked filter screens along system over winter, could not find anything "unusual" , water /sludge / excess sediment. Only thing I've noticed, I don't hear the thermostarter "Pop" before starting like I used to. I don't think this should effect the running only starting.
I'm still learning about Diesels...every day

appreciate any assistance from the experts with experience

Crazyhorsemd

You're right about the Thermostart- it will effect starting if it's not working, especially in cold weather.
Did you check the tank outlet strainer when you drained the tank? Crud in the tank can clog he strainer and restrict fuel flow. Some filters have several o-rings in the box and one of them should not be used because it will restrict fuel flow through the filter. Did you properly bleed the system after you replaced the filters? Are all the fittings tight so they can't suck any air?

Does your tractor have a lift pump to provide fuel to the injector pump? Some have screens that can clog and they must provide 3-5 psi to the injector pump inlet for the system to perform properly. If you have a lift pump have you checked the screen and delivery pressure to the injector pump?

The other guys have also given you good advice.

 

[crazyhorsemd]

I really appreciate the advice... I am at a loss
I checked / removed the lift pump screen..it was clean, checked / bled system so fuel pumps out injector lines. Drained tank but did not check tank outlet strainer. I did remove fuel line from the tank cut off valve and fuel ran out quickly. would it do this if the strainer is clogged?? Fittings appear tight. Even checked thermostarter...it fires up fuel in air intake. Still sounds like a fuel thing. When it starts...runs for about 15-20+ minutes then it loses power, over 15+ seconds and dies. Have not checked Vane (injector pump fuel inlet ) screen but will.

Thanks to all
Crazyhorsemd

 

[Texasmark]

Have not checked Vane (injector pump fuel inlet ) screen but will.
Thanks to all
Crazyhorsemd

On the "Have not checked Vane (injector pump fuel inlet ) screen but will." comment, I just had a thought. If you have a clogged filter screen, you have a clogged filter screen. It won't magically unclog when you turn the machine off and upon restarting, clog right back up just like it did before so that the engine dies just like it did the last time you had it running.

How about this easy test. Get ready to crack a fuel line at an injector. Run it through it's paces till it quits and immediately crack (one at a time) each injector cap, running the starter to turn the pump and see if you have fuel. If so, you can forget the fuel source starving, and maybe even the pump and look elsewhere.

Where? Good question. Let's wait for your answer from the above procedure.

 

[GManBart]

The lift pump style that tractor uses is prone to failure. It's like the kind they used on cars many years ago, and they used to rebuild them on a regular basis to prevent the problem. The good thing is it's an easy swap, and the pump isn't usually expensive.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I TOTALLY agree w/ the lift pump suggestion.. Its the easiest and most cost effective thing to change/clean.. its usually 1 bolt/screw and theres the filter screen..
TMark, I'm gonna have to correct you on the inj. pump filter tho.. those little buggers will cause havoc 10-15-20 minutes after starting..
It just depends on the load your putting on the engine.. if its clogged, it'll run FINE at idle and as soon as you put a load on the machine where the engine needs more fuel.. down she goes..
it all depends on the rate of "clogness".. Granted, there are a handful of things to check before ripping into an injection pump..
Flow from the tank, filter screen IN the tank outlet, filter cleanliness and CORRECT INSTALLATION.. LIFT PUMP operation & filter cleanliness.. THEN, HIDDEN inj. pump filter..

 

[Texasmark]

I TOTALLY agree w/ the lift pump suggestion.. Its the easiest and most cost effective thing to change/clean.. its usually 1 bolt/screw and theres the filter screen..
TMark, I'm gonna have to correct you on the inj. pump filter tho.. those little buggers will cause havoc 10-15-20 minutes after starting..
It just depends on the load your putting on the engine.. if its clogged, it'll run FINE at idle and as soon as you put a load on the machine where the engine needs more fuel.. down she goes..
it all depends on the rate of "clogness".. Granted, there are a handful of things to check before ripping into an injection pump..
Flow from the tank, filter screen IN the tank outlet, filter cleanliness and CORRECT INSTALLATION.. LIFT PUMP operation & filter cleanliness.. THEN, HIDDEN inj. pump filter..

You can't argue with a guy that has been there done that since I haven't . Just doesn't make sense that you can have that kind of a problem repeat itself to the letter and it be a filter screen clogging the same amount at the same time after starting, at who knows what operating condition each time. Thanks for the correction.

 

[crazyhorsemd]

OK all, I appreciate all the suggestions...Here we go.....
All screens checked including pump inlet, lift pump..even changed fuel filters again. lines from tank fuel runs well, bled system (I've done this before andworked well then) so I think no air in system. The lift pump pumps fuel well so I don't think it is a concern/question...would the lift pump pump fuel when pressed but still be defective? I really thought it was a fuel issue but now I'm not sure
Now stay with me. New 1000 CCA battery and + cable, the - looks good but the darn thing doesn't turn over well just chugs, seems very slow almost to slow to fire over. after 7-10 tries the battery just doesn't have any more to give. even jumped with my truck appears to lack starting power. Could this be the ground wire poor connection (looks good but could be cleaner) a starter issue or solenoid or @@@ fobid a compression issue. as before , it never turned over with umph (even in the dead of summer) like my gas engines, thought it was just a diesel thing
Hang with me I'm trying my darndest to figure this out

thanks again
crazyhorsemd