Design issue

[KiotiJohn]

The only thing I can think is that the glow plug timer must not be cutting off properly and leading to burn out. I'm not sure what you would need to repair it, but I can't imagine anything else causing it.

Maybe using a block heater instead would work better.
Yep, that engine is going to smoke if it's not warm. I think that has to do more with the turbo, but I'm not sure of that.
John

 

[KiotiJohn]

The only thing I can think is that the glow plug timer must not be cutting off properly and leading to burn out. I'm not sure what you would need to repair it, but I can't imagine anything else causing it.

Maybe using a block heater instead would work better.
Yep, that engine is going to smoke if it's not warm. I think that has to do more with the turbo, but I'm not sure of that.
John

 

[JerryG]

The turbo shouldn't have anything to do with the start-up smoke unless the seals are out.

 

[JerryG]

The turbo shouldn't have anything to do with the start-up smoke unless the seals are out.

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The turbo shouldn't have anything to do with the start-up smoke unless the seals are out. )</font>
Don't turbos require more warming and cool down than other engines? I would think they would smoke for a little longer on start up than others, and that has been what I've seen on turbos, but I've never owned one.

It seems they smoke, white, for a while longer than mine, for sure.

Any engine is going to smoke if the valve seats are leaking or seals are bad, but this is a newer tractor and shouldn't have that problem.

Any thoughts Jerry, on what is causing his burn out problem? I can't think of anything else, unless maybe an intermittent short that is not breaking the circuit? It's baffling.
John

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The turbo shouldn't have anything to do with the start-up smoke unless the seals are out. )</font>
Don't turbos require more warming and cool down than other engines? I would think they would smoke for a little longer on start up than others, and that has been what I've seen on turbos, but I've never owned one.

It seems they smoke, white, for a while longer than mine, for sure.

Any engine is going to smoke if the valve seats are leaking or seals are bad, but this is a newer tractor and shouldn't have that problem.

Any thoughts Jerry, on what is causing his burn out problem? I can't think of anything else, unless maybe an intermittent short that is not breaking the circuit? It's baffling.
John

 

[Highbeam]

Well I can at least share truck engine experience. A non-turbo engine runs a compression ratio in the 27:1 area on say a ford or chevy non-turbo truck engine. The turbo versions of these engines run a 17:1 or so compression ratio. You can add a turbo to a non-turbo diesel engine but the cylinder pressures end up very high and can lead to early failure.

Perhaps this is the same deal with the compression ratios of our tractor engines being lower on the turbo versions. Less compression means less heat, less heat means a colder and less complete combustion of diesel, and that leads to smoke until the enigne heats up.

 

[Highbeam]

Well I can at least share truck engine experience. A non-turbo engine runs a compression ratio in the 27:1 area on say a ford or chevy non-turbo truck engine. The turbo versions of these engines run a 17:1 or so compression ratio. You can add a turbo to a non-turbo diesel engine but the cylinder pressures end up very high and can lead to early failure.

Perhaps this is the same deal with the compression ratios of our tractor engines being lower on the turbo versions. Less compression means less heat, less heat means a colder and less complete combustion of diesel, and that leads to smoke until the enigne heats up.

 

[Dmace]

Highbeam has a very good analogy of the engine types. Now the question is how soon does the turbo spool and build boost on these tractors. The compression ratio is lower on turbocharged engines because once the turbo builds boost (compressed air) and forces it into the cylinders, it raises the compression ratio. So do these diesels build enough exhaust pressure at idle to spool the turbo or are they stagnant until higher rpms ?

 

[Dmace]

Highbeam has a very good analogy of the engine types. Now the question is how soon does the turbo spool and build boost on these tractors. The compression ratio is lower on turbocharged engines because once the turbo builds boost (compressed air) and forces it into the cylinders, it raises the compression ratio. So do these diesels build enough exhaust pressure at idle to spool the turbo or are they stagnant until higher rpms ?

 

[KiotiJohn]

Maybe we should start a different thread if we really wish to persue this track, although I don't think it's necessary. We're stealing the original poster's thread about water in his seat! Sorry.
John

 

[KiotiJohn]

Maybe we should start a different thread if we really wish to persue this track, although I don't think it's necessary. We're stealing the original poster's thread about water in his seat! Sorry.
John

 

[JerryG]

<font color="blue"> Don't turbos require more warming and cool down than other engines? I would think they would smoke for a little longer on start up than others, and that has been what I've seen on turbos, but I've never owned one.</font>
The warm-up isn't a problem, but the cool down is. With the turbo running at such high RPMs, it creates a lot of heat. If the turbo isn’t cooled down the oil literally cooks on the bearing.
There are several different reasons why an engine will smoke. If it has a turbo seal out, valve seals bad, bad or broken rings, non-seated rings, restricted return fuel, injector problem or fuel pump problem are a few of the reasons that will cause smoking. I just wonder is the fuel return lines have been check to see if there is a restriction. A restriction in the return will cause smoking. At idle there is a lot of fuel returned.
As far as the glow plug, I think that you are right that it has to be a short. I would check anything that is plugged into the wiring harness. I am having a mental block today, but there is a solenoid, diode or something that is attached to that harness. I would check or change it. It appears that would be the only thing left from the list of things that have been changed.

 

[JerryG]

<font color="blue"> Don't turbos require more warming and cool down than other engines? I would think they would smoke for a little longer on start up than others, and that has been what I've seen on turbos, but I've never owned one.</font>
The warm-up isn't a problem, but the cool down is. With the turbo running at such high RPMs, it creates a lot of heat. If the turbo isn’t cooled down the oil literally cooks on the bearing.
There are several different reasons why an engine will smoke. If it has a turbo seal out, valve seals bad, bad or broken rings, non-seated rings, restricted return fuel, injector problem or fuel pump problem are a few of the reasons that will cause smoking. I just wonder is the fuel return lines have been check to see if there is a restriction. A restriction in the return will cause smoking. At idle there is a lot of fuel returned.
As far as the glow plug, I think that you are right that it has to be a short. I would check anything that is plugged into the wiring harness. I am having a mental block today, but there is a solenoid, diode or something that is attached to that harness. I would check or change it. It appears that would be the only thing left from the list of things that have been changed.

 

[JerryG]

<font color="blue"> So do these diesels build enough exhaust pressure at idle to spool the turbo or are they stagnant until higher rpms ? </font>
As most all turbos, there is no boost at idle. They have to have several RPMs before the turbo spools enough to create boost.

 

[JerryG]

<font color="blue"> So do these diesels build enough exhaust pressure at idle to spool the turbo or are they stagnant until higher rpms ? </font>
As most all turbos, there is no boost at idle. They have to have several RPMs before the turbo spools enough to create boost.

 

[TractorLegend]

I'm confused now... Is it a turbo seat or a non turbo seat getting wet?? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[TractorLegend]

I'm confused now... Is it a turbo seat or a non turbo seat getting wet?? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[JoshJ]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm confused now... Is it a turbo seat or a non turbo seat getting wet?? )</font>

Hahaha

I think I'd smoke pretty good too if I had a wet butt after sitting on my tractor seat! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[JoshJ]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm confused now... Is it a turbo seat or a non turbo seat getting wet?? )</font>

Hahaha

I think I'd smoke pretty good too if I had a wet butt after sitting on my tractor seat! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif