Dead perkins....(ie, help...)

Richard · Dec 29, 2002

I am lost and hope some diesel experts might have some ideas.

Setup: Working Brutus all day, dragging sections of fallen oak tree back to field near house. (point being, started fine, ran fine, plenty of fuel)

Was dragging large branch, slipped into neutral, started to ease backward some, so I clicked back into forward... (engine speed was at idle), as the reverse to forward load hit with essentially no rpms, engine died. (kind of analogous to killing engine when learning how to use clutch)

Not a problem...I've managed to do this a handful of times in 2 years of ownership.

Turn key, and engine turns over, but will NOT start. No sputtering, no smoke, no passing go, no $200.00.

Outside temperature is probably near 50 degrees, so nothing frozen up in fuel line. New fuel filter this past summer. Loosened one of the lines to injectors while someone else turned key, fuel "seeped" (as opposed to spurted) out. While turning over, looked at rain flapper... it was bopping up and down (was thinking if timing chain broke, no "timed" exhaust).

Thankfully, Brutus died in field across from house... the big oak tree that fell was out on the public road and that is where I had been working...had it died out THERE... no one could have easily gotten by /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif.

Ohh.. to clarify, if I remember correctly, the fuel injectors (is it even POSSIBLE for them to lose their prime with a stall like that??) anyway, the injectors are let's say, 1 1/4 inch diamater wrench, on TOP of them with a 1/4 inch bolt, is the fuel supply line. It is the supply line and not the actual injector I loosened (presuming my differentation is correct) My handy wrench at the scene was not large enough for the injectors per se.

I'm now looking for ideas of what to look at.

Though I don't see how it would matter in literal sense, don't forget Brutus is industrial JCB & not a tractor (please don't banish me from here...I WANTED a tractor... mean wifey forced me to get this instead /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif )

Thanks
Richard

DarinRay · Dec 29, 2002

Well it's not a perkins but on my Cat E110B excavator I was operating it and started wiggling or actually throwing the girl all over crawling over rough area and digging blah,blah and the motor actually just started sputtering like crazy and went dead. Well after thinking about it racking my brain someone lead me in the direction of fuel......my suction strainer inline of the fuel filter before the primer was completly clogged with smudge or ???? The unit would turn over all day just fine but nothing .....sputter or smoke....When I went and primed the pump for fuel it ran but would die in the matter of seconds until I cleaned that strainer. LONG STORY SHORT ----check your strainer if you have one.

Darin

Thomas · Dec 29, 2002

Kinda sounds like a safety switch close,or a loosen maybe broken wire.

If it was I start tracing the wires,also check the fuel filter to see if the fuel flowing...might be worth checking all the fuses..look for the little things first before tearing into the big stuff...my motto. /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif

Richard · Dec 29, 2002

ok.. was your strainer in your tank or near filter?

I have a sneaky feeling that had I not stalled it, it would have kept running until I stopped it "normally" (and then maybe not have restarted). It was running smooth and not hiccupping at all. The timing of the stall, with the lurch of the transmission would be tooo ironic for it to have run out of fuel in my mind (though that IS the kind of luck I have /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif)

I'll call dealer tomorrow & ask (if and where strainer might be)...fortunately, they are very helpful with me... patient is probably is a better word though...

DarinRay · Dec 29, 2002

Richard,

Actually the strainer was just a real fine mesh that was inline of the fuel injectors...It's in the same line that feed the injector pump (suction). But like you mentioned the timing of the stall probably isn't the fuel strainer but maybe some other safety switch like Bird mentioned. The only problem with the safety switch is that the motor turns over just like it should unless there is a blower (air)switch or fuel shut off switch. Are all your idiot lights coming on when you turn the key? I'm really not sure but am sure that someone here will help you more.

Darin

AMP762 · Dec 29, 2002

I'm no expert by any means but I'd check compression and then fuel pressure at injectors should tell you which way to go

bgott · Dec 30, 2002

You should have a fuel cutoff solenoid on the injection pump. Use a 12v test light to see if you're getting power to the solenoid when the key is on. Maybe the wire fell off.

Egon · Dec 30, 2002

My truck has the fuel solenoid shutoff. When it failed the engine would not shut off. Had to stall it. When I found where it was The lever to the valve could be manipulated by hand.

The replacement cost was a mere $600 Canadian. I was tempeted to install a cable to the valve and operate it manually.

Egon

Justaplain · Dec 30, 2002

If all else fails, check the injector pump. If it has to be rebuilt or replaced make sure you are sitting down. bcs

Steve_in_Ont · Dec 30, 2002

Along with all of the other things, remember to check for air in the system. Any significant air can cause the fuel system to stop working... It can come from a slight crack in any fuel line that is under suction (before the fuel pump). It can also be trapped in the system by a problem with the fuel return line. A quick (and cheap) way to check for air is to install a clear insert between the fuel transfer pump and injection pump, and turn the engine over...

autodoc1 · Dec 31, 2002

Just a Quick and easy test. Spray WD-40 in to the air intake (NOT starting fluid if it has glow plugs) while cranking engine. If it tries to start you have a fuel problem. Look for air leaks in the supply line to pump, check pump pressure, if pressure is low check pump timming. Some have a key way in the pump shaft that may have sheared.

I hope this helps

Richard · Dec 31, 2002

Sorry late with any more info..

DarinRay : Idiot lights working fine, as far as I know, there is no safety switch OTHER than the need to have the forward/reverse selector in neutral. I have clicked it forward/backward and put back into neutral to be sure.

Amp762: My exhaust flapper was bobbing up & down as I was turning engine over. Other than that, (without spark plugs), how do you check compression? Do I take the injector(s) out and test there?

Bgott: I believe the injection pump is mechanical. I looked at it and there seems to be a housing that either has a belt in it, or since the housing is completely enclosed, I suspect a chain or gear. I am not aware of any solenoid switch (but then, maybe I need to ask my dealer !!)

Autodoc1: Hmm.. wd-40 into air intake... I do not know if this machine has glow plugs. I DO know it starts likity split every time. Probably within just a couple of revolutions.

Thanks again.. Tomorrow (Wednesday) I plan on tinkering to see if I can get it started.

Richard

JerryG · Dec 31, 2002

I don't believe that it will have glow plugs. I have never saw a Perkins with plugs. As far as the attachment of the pump, it is all gear. Perkins don't have any chains and I would be suprised if the problem had anything to do with the gears or the pump.

bgott · Dec 31, 2002

It has a mechanical pump, that doesn't mean it won't have an electrical solenoid. Does the engine shut off when you cut off the key? When it runs, anyway.

If it does, you have a solenoid. If you have to pull a knob to shut it down you probably don't have the solenoid.

Richard · Dec 31, 2002

I have to pull a knob to kill it. (I know, I just replaced said knob and cable this past summer)

/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I still recall the first time I ran it and it did not turn off when I "killed" the ignition... ALSO..when the ignition key is turned off, the transmission DIES!!!

seems the transmission is somehow electronically controlled and no key, no go. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

btw, I have made sure the pull knob is NOT in the pulled position

Turfman · Jan 1, 2003

I have made sure the pull knob is NOT in the pulled position 

Sad and embarassing memories as I sat on my tractor, turned the engine over and it failed to start. The mechanic listened then pushed in the kill knob and she started right up. I felt like an idiot.

bgott · Jan 1, 2003

No solenoid then. Try the WD-40 trick posted above and if it starts I'd then try rigging a small fuel tank to the suction line of the pump.

Richard · Jan 1, 2003

Try the WD-40 trick posted above 

Roger That!

Will be out tinkering in couple hours!!

Thanks

Richard · Jan 1, 2003

the WD-40 trick 

Just realized..I have a nice new can lf "Liquid Wrench" and not a drop of WD-40....

Does that make a difference? will LW work as well as WD??

JohnMiller3 · Jan 1, 2003

...will LW work as well as WD??...

Maybe not the "exact/same secret recipe"... but should work... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

To be sure... use a shot of ether instead... just don't overdue it.../w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif