De-Sulfating Chargers safe for Electronics?

[fidowanttobe]

Need a professional opinion to alleviate my paranoia. Regardless of what the instructions say with my BatteryMinder Plus 1510, I am reluctant to leave the battery hooked to the vehicle when using it on something with a computer. It is the half of the AC surge that makes me nervous. Opinions?? Thanks. By the way, I have had great success with this charger on iffy batteries.

 

[dickfoster]

I use one on my truck all the time (1996 Tacoma with EFI). It's hooked up and running now and so far it has never damaged anything.
I connected a scope to it once and you can't really see anything but I know it's doing something because it has desulfated a couple of batteries for me. I think the low impedance of the battery soaks up the pulses. Mine is connected to two batteries in the truck which are connected in parallel with an isolator and it hasn't hurt the isolator either but it sure does keep the batteries topped up nicely.

 

[orezok]

I've had a desulfator connected to the batteries in my RV trailers continuously for years without issue. There are computer boards in the refer, heater, A/C etc. No problem.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Having an electronics background AND being basically "unlucky" I too would have had my reservations.

But, I guess the proof is in the pudding, as they say.

Now, maybe some desulphators (which I don't believe work for the intended purpose) are more aggressive than others. I don't know.

 

[dickfoster]

Having an electronics background AND being basically "unlucky" I too would have had my reservations.

But, I guess the proof is in the pudding, as they say.

Now, maybe some desulphators (which I don't believe work for the intended purpose) are more aggressive than others. I don't know.

Just so you know, I have a lifelong electronics background and found that desulfators do indeed work. However it does take some time for them to get the job done but eventually they can and will recover most sulphated batteries if they aren't too far gone. The more sulphated a battery is, the longer it takes but it's best not to abuse them in the first place. An ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure and all that stuff.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Need a professional opinion to alleviate my paranoia. Regardless of what the instructions say with my BatteryMinder Plus 1510, I am reluctant to leave the battery hooked to the vehicle when using it on something with a computer. It is the half of the AC surge that makes me nervous. Opinions?? Thanks. By the way, I have had great success with this charger on iffy batteries.

Yes, they are safe. I've had them slowly resurrect dead batteries and become new trolling motor batteries.

My favorite battery saver charger is the Optimate 6.

Pay attention to the difference between a cheap battery charger and the Optimate series which is now on its 6th generation.

Anyway, here is a link to the Optimate 6's feature set. OptiMate 6 : LED indicator lights - YouTube

 

[Industrial Toys]

I know this isn't supposed to be a thread about weather or not they work. I have seen hours of videos about tinkerers testing these things for weeks/months with inconclusive results. The videos claiming positive results always seem to be ones associated with the sale and marketing of these things.

You can't compare results to people not giving their batteries a second thought. My guess is, a trickle or maintenance charger would yield similar results.

I wish someone, just once would dissect two similar batteries, one having been desulphated, the other not.

 

[RNeumann]

Desulfication is the slight overcharge of the battery to try and remove material from the plates. This process is fine for most electronics. It's only a few tenths of a volt over normal charge (13.4-13.6v) and most "12v" systems work from about 10.5v - 14.5v ish.

Sleep well! No worries! If you still can't unhook the battery terminals- it will take about 2'.

 

[txndncowboy]

What I've always wondered is if AGM batteries need desulfating. Or does it work with AGM batteries if you try. And then where's the proof of course.

 

[RNeumann]

Same principle in AGM and same "science"'to back it up...
AGM uses the same type of plates...it's the material between the plates that is different-absorbed glass mats vs liquid.

 

[dickfoster]

What I've always wondered is if AGM batteries need desulfating. Or does it work with AGM batteries if you try. And then where's the proof of course.

I sulphated two AGM batteries at the same time though my own neglect by letting the truck sit unused for long periods of time then driving it only a short distance, maybe 10 or 12 blocks then letting it sit again. After repeated abuse and neglect both batteries got to the point that neither would hold a charge, yes they became sulphated as any lead acid battery can.
I then bought two new batteries and recovered both of the old ones with a pulsing/ desulphating charger. It took several weeks. Now both of the old batteries are as good as new. Any battery can be abused and ruined though neglect, AGM or otherwise.
To prevent future battery problems I installed a solar panel and charge controller in the truck for when it's parked outside and plug it into a desulphating maintenance charger when it's parked in the garage where it spends most of it's time now.

 

[dickfoster]

Same principle in AGM and same "science"'to back it up...
AGM uses the same type of plates...it's the material between the plates that is different-absorbed glass mats vs liquid.

This is 100% correct. If it's a lead acid battery of any kind it can and will suffer the same malady if neglected as the chemistry is the same. AGM batteries usually have more lead of a higher purity. This is because the lead does not need to be alloyed for rigidity so as to support themselves as the plates in a common wet cell do.

 

[Fallon]

Desulfication is the slight overcharge of the battery to try and remove material from the plates. This process is fine for most electronics. It's only a few tenths of a volt over normal charge (13.4-13.6v) and most "12v" systems work from about 10.5v - 14.5v ish.

Sleep well! No worries! If you still can't unhook the battery terminals- it will take about 2'.

No, that is not how it works at all. Lead sulfide crystals (along with most anything) have a resonance frequency. Hit something at or make it vibrate at that frequency & they shatter. I'm not sure if a DC pulse or AC is used, but it's applied at the resonance frequency of lead sulfide. It takes a while, but it will usually remove the lead sulfide. Desulfating is usually done in combination with a trickle charge.

Hitting a battery with high voltage will boil off electrolyte & kill it. There is a lot of science on what voltage to use at what stage. Higher voltage (14v or so) at the bulk charge stage is fine. 13.5v at the trickle charge maintenance stage could boil it.

The RV BATTERY CHARGING PUZZLE << HandyBob's Blog is a great place to learn about battery charging & solar. A little angry & ranty at times, but he knows his stuff.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I came across this interesting article today.

Battery Desulphation


Apparently it states that if the pulses are strong enough (in amplitude) to do any good, damage to equipment can occur.

I still think that fifty cents of chinese electronics sold for forty dollars American, is just a rip off. I have many, many batteries. I wish it was that cheap and easy!

 

[RNeumann]

No, that is not how it works at all. Lead sulfide crystals (along with most anything) have a resonance frequency. Hit something at or make it vibrate at that frequency & they shatter. I'm not sure if a DC pulse or AC is used, but it's applied at the resonance frequency of lead sulfide. It takes a while, but it will usually remove the lead sulfide. Desulfating is usually done in combination with a trickle charge.

Hitting a battery with high voltage will boil off electrolyte & kill it. There is a lot of science on what voltage to use at what stage. Higher voltage (14v or so) at the bulk charge stage is fine. 13.5v at the trickle charge maintenance stage could boil it.

The RV BATTERY CHARGING PUZZLE << HandyBob's Blog is a great place to learn about battery charging & solar. A little angry & ranty at times, but he knows his stuff.

I appreciate the confidence! The pulses can be up to 60v. The frequency depends on the company and the patent. You could "see" the pulses with a oscilloscope but with a "normal" volt meter like a Fluke or some other brand it would show a slightly more voltage. This is why the OP said the manufacture instructions say it's "safe" to leave the battery hooked up as most devices aren't sensitive enough to be affected by the pulses.

One could also look up battery equalization. Another, all be it, "dumber" way to improve or maintain batteries. I don't think anyone was suggesting hammering a battery to the point it would boil out or over heat.

Answer To The Question: Battery Desulfators - Do They Work? - Blog

 

[RNeumann]

This is 100% correct. If it's a lead acid battery of any kind it can and will suffer the same malady if neglected as the chemistry is the same. AGM batteries usually have more lead of a higher purity. This is because the lead does not need to be alloyed for rigidity so as to support themselves as the plates in a common wet cell do.

Good point about higher lead content in AGMs. Hadn't thought about that but it makes sense.

 

[txndncowboy]

I've had 2 de-sulfating maintenance chargers for 30 if not more years. One finally went south on me a few years ago and took the battery with it. Was I mad? At first yes since it was my motorcycle and was going to go ride when I discovered it. But after I came back to my senses I wasn't. That thing saved me at least 10 batteries in it's life. I was only able to get 3 years at most out of a battery before getting those 2. I never new if that de-sulfating worked until I tried it on a battery that it was never ever on and wouldn't hold a charge. I got 2 more years out of a dead battery. Might have got more but that puppy was truly neglected. Adding water was the last thing I every looked at on that thing. So I was pleased as punch to get any more use at all out of it. Let alone 2 years. I bought 2 more of those little things as a result. They are money well spent.

 

[dickfoster]

I appreciate the confidence! The pulses can be up to 60v. The frequency depends on the company and the patent. You could "see" the pulses with a oscilloscope but with a "normal" volt meter like a Fluke or some other brand it would show a slightly more voltage. This is why the OP said the manufacture instructions say it's "safe" to leave the battery hooked up as most devices aren't sensitive enough to be affected by the pulses.

One could also look up battery equalization. Another, all be it, "dumber" way to improve or maintain batteries. I don't think anyone was suggesting hammering a battery to the point it would boil out or over heat.

Answer To The Question: Battery Desulfators - Do They Work? - Blog

I've actually connected a good high speed scope to mine and did not see much. Of course, I used AC coupling, but the low impedance of the battery pretty much gobbles up the pulses so there isn't much left to see on a scope.

 

[Fallon]

One could also look up battery equalization. Another, all be it, "dumber" way to improve or maintain batteries. I don't think anyone was suggesting hammering a battery to the point it would boil out or over heat.

Equalizing is a very different process. Basically it boils your battery. Normally not a good thing, but it has its uses. Sitting around water & acid in a lead acid battery (don't think it's relevant to AGM or gell cell batteries & can blow them up) can separate so you end up with a layer of acid floating over or under (forget which) a layer of water. Not good for its ability to hold a charge or survive cold. Equalizing/boiling for a very short time mixes things back up.

I'm guessing the boiling action might knock some lead sulfide off the plates, but wouldn't count on it.