Custom Baling

[CumminsLuke]

Not including the M4700 I sold, and my ZD21 lawnmower, I've got less than $45,000 tied up in all the stuff you see in my signature. And $30,000 of that is in the M7040 with cab and loader. Notice there are three balers in my signature. Every piece I have is in excellent shape and has never caused me any trouble, but I keep everything sheded and do preventive maintenence before problems show up. I bale about 100 acres of hay a year. I guess if you wanted to do a thousand acres maybe you'd need more, but I get by real good.

 

[blueriver]

Not including the M4700 I sold, and my ZD21 lawnmower, I've got less than $45,000 tied up in all the stuff you see in my signature. And $30,000 of that is in the M7040 with cab and loader. Notice there are three balers in my signature. Every piece I have is in excellent shape and has never caused me any trouble, but I keep everything sheded and do preventive maintenence before problems show up. I bale about 100 acres of hay a year. I guess if you wanted to do a thousand acres maybe you'd need more, but I get by real good.

Okay so am I being foolish ... I aready have a JD 7' sickle mower that I use to clean up with, should I be looking for a small baler to fit 43hp? I know I can find a rake for a few $ ... Should I be doing my 200 bales a year myself?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

yes you can buy all used equipment for that price.an if shes not in top shape break down on you in the field.i was looking at it from the starting with new equipment from scratch.but ive learned the hard way you dont buy some1 elses problems.for the last few years ive had custom balers bale the hay.an they charge $20 a bale.an they do break down in the field.but thats ok.

NEW equipment is NEW for about 10 minutes, then it's no different than a well cared for piece of used equipment. BTDT. Spending 5 to 10 times as much to end up with new won't eliminate the possibilities of a breakdown, just the possibility of turning a profit in a marginally profitable venture. Do it my way and you can have 2 or 3 of EVERYTHING at 1/5th the cost. Something breaks, park it and wheel out "plan B". Your way something breaks, wait for dealer to do warranty service. I like my way MUCH better. So does my bank account.

 

[zzvyb6]

I like the idea of taking on other people's junk (sorry FWJ). That's my competitive advantage. I learn how it works, how to fix it, and how to improve it. If I have a breakdown, I already have the tools in the field, the extra parts on hand and the knack to get it done. With new equipment, I can only compete with dealers.

A newer tractor with a few extra hydraulics outlets are all I would insist on. Diesel for safety (fire) reasons. You really ought to have a partner in this. A 2 person deal has some huge advantages from a safety, food, hookup, scheduling, attitude, and encouragement point of view. Having a female partner in this endeavor is the making of an incredable marriage or a standoff divorce. Show a client how reliable you are as a work in progress and you'll be able to command a premium price.

 

[bigbull338]

everyone has differant opions on how they do things an the way they buy equipment.i have nothing against used equipment.if a person wants to buy used thats great.theres good deals on equipment if you can find them.the square balers ive seen for sale are old an they want from $2000 to $7000.an if they break down can you do all of the repair work yourself.im not fighting with any1 here.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

everyone has differant opions on how they do things an the way they buy equipment.i have nothing against used equipment.if a person wants to buy used thats great.theres good deals on equipment if you can find them.the square balers ive seen for sale are old an they want from $2000 to $7000.an if they break down can you do all of the repair work yourself.im not fighting with any1 here.

Balers really are not that complicated, if something breaks you unbolt it and bolt on the new part. But new balers break down also so either way you will want a good toolkit with you.

I paid $7500 for my NH 575 and it was about 5 years old. So far the only thing that has actually broke were a few shear bolts on the flywheel. I had the belt on the pickup jump off when I found a chuck hole fairly hard. I also had to adjust one of the knives on the knotter once. But that is it in 3 years of owning that baler. The thrower is a different story as I have had to rebuild the upper apron. The one rail broke (opposite the flywheel) last year so I tore things down and replaced it. Then this year the flywheel loosened up and ruined the drive drums shaft so I had to replace the drum and bearings. I had my friends at the machine shop fix the flywheel and cut a new keyway. But when the thrower breaks all you do is put someone on the wagon and hand stack like you would a flat rack.

The only down time I have is with help unloading wagons. The kids get tired and as one or two quit on you then you are stranded while the last couple work their butts off (they get rewarded though). I offer a stacking service to my customers and depending on how far away they are, how much hay they are buying and how much work is involved is how I decide what to charge. Generally, I charge a quarter a bale to stack in their barns and I make money at this rate as I have two dependable kids and they can usually keep the other helpers in line. I pay them $10 an hour and I shuttle wagons while my father runs my baler for me. I figure even if I only make 5-10 cents a bale (you make less money per bale after 1000 bales as the kids slow down), it is better then paying them to put it in my barn because my customers can't get help to unload when I am baling.

Personally, I think a young guy could make a lot of money offering a stacking service if he had one or two dependable helpers. You can just about name your price with most of these horse farms as they can't find people to stack hay anymore.

 

[chh]

NEW equipment is NEW for about 10 minutes, then it's no different than a well cared for piece of used equipment. BTDT. Spending 5 to 10 times as much to end up with new won't eliminate the possibilities of a breakdown, just the possibility of turning a profit in a marginally profitable venture. Do it my way and you can have 2 or 3 of EVERYTHING at 1/5th the cost. Something breaks, park it and wheel out "plan B". Your way something breaks, wait for dealer to do warranty service. I like my way MUCH better. So does my bank account.

I've tried it both ways. I'll take newer stuff for the amount of property I have to cover. I prefer working equipment to working on it. Which of course it all needs worked on before you think it will. I've never owned a square baler. Watched them run many a day when I was a kid and learned to drive in the hayfield helping the haulers. Getting help to handle squares around here is very difficult. I have quite a bit of horse quality bermuda that I've never tried to work with just for that reason. The biggest concern I have with the newer round balers I have looked at is the electronics on them. If they sit outside all year is it rough on the sensors and the belts too.
I avoided the new tractors ,when I was shopping for one, with the totally electronic cabs and the electric/hydraulic shift transmissions.

All this said and the different viewpoints on it, you would need to identify what type of customer you would be working for. People that truck round bales prefer the 4' wide bales, to stay under legal width, and net wrap. Many cattle ranchers who only move bales on their own property want as much in a bale as they can get. 6'x5' bales is the standard for them. I know some that want natural twine, some plastic twine, and many will take nothing but net wrap, because it sheds water better. One custom baler I know runs new JD's. The last one he traded in ,at 2 years old, had over 10,000 bales on the moniter and less than 400 were with twine. That is what his customers want.

Good Luck!!

 

[matt21]

Thanks everyone for the info! I'll let you know what happens.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I like the idea of taking on other people's junk (sorry FWJ). That's my competitive advantage. I learn how it works, how to fix it, and how to improve it. If I have a breakdown, I already have the tools in the field, the extra parts on hand and the knack to get it done. With new equipment, I can only compete with dealers.

Absolutely no reason to be sorry (other than you're stealing my game plan ) I made a carreer out of that very same practice.

In the last 37+ years, I've owned 3 balers. All three were bought used. I still have 2 of them. Both are now near 30 years old. Count what I paid for all 3, subtract the one I sold, and I have 37 years of hayin' and 2 good balers with less than $3000 invested. (w/ either being worth $2000 to $3000 on todays market) If anyone would like, spend the money on a new one, bale for a summer, then I'll match reliability stride for stride with my old "junkers". If you take good care of a baler they'll go on like the Energizer Bunny.

 

[bigbull338]

i know a guy that was running an old massy round baler.an everytime he pulled out of a field from baling in the shop she went.an he had to change bearing an work on it.an sometimes she would blowup baling.this summer she blew a pick reel bearing.so he pulled out of the field.an went an got him a new baler.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

i know a guy that was running an old massy round baler.an everytime he pulled out of a field from baling in the shop she went.an he had to change bearing an work on it.an sometimes she would blowup baling.this summer she blew a pick reel bearing.so he pulled out of the field.an went an got him a new baler.

Stuff breaks. And there's a huge difference betweeen OLD and JUNK. Sounds like your pal had JUNK. We read post after post on TBN from people who spent a small fortune on NEW tractors and equipment that break and they can't fix it themselves. The older equipment is far less complicated, and if it DOES wear out, you aren't out a fortune. If someone was planning on baling hundreds of acres a year, new might pencil out as practical. But where we're talking about acreage where used and cheap might not even pay for itself, spending big dollars on new is ridiculous unless you're just looking for a way to get shed of excess cash.

 

[matt21]

I would definately be buying used. New equipment is out of the question for me. Besides i think older tractors last longer anyway.

 

[Aquaman]

Matt, good luck on whatever you decide to do. I'm one of those crazy self-employed kamikazees and I understand how tough it is to decide what to do. Best advice I can give is always give good service. Broken parts can be replaced, but once you form your reputation, you are stuck with it. Honest hard workers seem to be harder and harder to find, and when people find one, they tend to stick with him.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Matt, good luck on whatever you decide to do. I'm one of those crazy self-employed kamikazees and I understand how tough it is to decide what to do. Best advice I can give is always give good service. Broken parts can be replaced, but once you form your reputation, you are stuck with it. Honest hard workers seem to be harder and harder to find, and when people find one, they tend to stick with him.

To expand on this, if you hire helpers and find a hard worker then reward him by paying him properly. Since most hay laborers are kids he will most likely be calling you wondering when you are going to need him again. You need to reward your good workers and keep them happy as they will want to come back and hopefully they keep working hard. Sometimes they get a little arrogant but they are kids so sit down with them and be honest about their performance and what you expect.

I use to get paid $5 a day when I worked for my neighbor after school. I would work for a couple hours. If we had a real good day I would get paid more. If all I did was irritate him I would get paid less . He was a good guy and wanted me to buy his farm when he passed away. Last year he passed away at night and his son was banging on my door at 7:30am that morning wanting to know if I wanted to buy his farm still . I did buy his farm and as soon as I am healthy I will be finishing the light remodel and move in. It is a great house and I have a lot of memories from that place.

Anyway, I apologize for getting side tracked. My neighbor was my first boss and although I didn't get paid anywhere near as well as I pay my helpers it was a lot of money for me at the time. He was always honest and fair with me and my brother. He showed me a lot of respect and rewarded me by giving me more and more responsibilites. I worked with him from the age 12 till I turned 16 and could work legally for my father so it seems like a long time ago but it was the first part of the 90's. $5 a day added up over time I really do miss him though

 

[matt21]

Ok so it seems like 4x5 bales with net wrap are the most popular around here. I don't see much twine being used anymore. It would probably be best for me to get a variable chamber 4x6 baler that way i could make 4x4, 4x5, & 4x6 bales to give me a little more versatility. I found a late '80s 85hp ford tractor with a loader and cab for $14,500. It seems to be in good shape but i haven't heard it run yet.

 

[matt21]

Has anybody on here ever worked with Farm Credit?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Has anybody on here ever worked with Farm Credit?

What would you like to know? Farm Credit is more or less what their name suggest. They offer a lot of services geared for farmers and have been very good to talk to but I have never taken a loan out from them yet. My friend was an accountant for Farm Credit but she recently left to start her own business. She has nothing but good things to say about them.

 

[matt21]

Ok so i did some research and found out that in the area where i'm at baling small squares would be the best way to go. My neighbor is disabled and selling his small operation. He mostly baled the hay and sold it to people in the area. Last year he had people lined up for the hay as he was baling it. This seems to be the best way to go.

 

[Texashayman]

Hey Matt! Many good pieces of advice here. I have been baling my own and custom as well for over fifteen years. Most of my equipment is fairly new. That being said I usually (not always) look for lightly used equipment and let the first owner take the hickie! Can you make money? the only note I currently have is on a new truck, everything else is free and clear...however this years fuel costs are going to make things a little more difficult to make a profit, especially if a man is carrying a large debt load! And Matt when hay prices are high, watch out for owners basically wanting you to become a brush hog service for them,I you dont know the fields..dont take the owners word,check it out yourself!

 

[patrick_g]

The general consensus of opinion seems to be you can make money, break even while working hard, go broke or, multiple of the above in any order.

I trade labor with a guy who has all the equipment for round bailing. HE and his son bale my hay and I work for them an equal number of hours, sometimes using my tractor, dump trailer, chain saws or ... It works fair and we stay friends.

I have considered getting my own equipment but came out from under the anesthetic sufficiently in advance of the MISTAKE to avoid calamity. I have also had my place baled on the shares. That worked too but I prefer the barter arrangement.

I see a lot of new people getting into baling all the time but usually reality sets in and they get out within 2-3 seasons, worse for the wear. Same story on dirt equipment like back hoes dozers, etc. No one does a business plan much less a realistic one, lines up customers, realistically accounts for $, time, fuel, and other materials and repairs.

For some reason there is a never ending supply of people willing to risk a lot of time, money, and or expensive equipment thinking somehow they will be different and magic will happen and goodness and mercy will follow them throughout their days. These people make it hard on the folks who are trying to make an honest living doing things at the rates needed to pay all expenses and stay in business. The new guys typically think they can undercut the REAL people in order to BUY jobs and that sows the seeds of disaster. The REAL people may have it figured out pretty well and it is tough to undercut them and survive. The constant supply of people doomed to failure through failing to plan makes life hard for the REAL people.

Figure out costs, your customer base, and other ingredients of a sound business plan, ignoring unfounded optimism and a belief that somehow the weather will be your friend, you won't have unscheduled breakdowns, never get sick, always can find reliable help, and if you can't make a profit on paper using realistic inputs then DON'T leap into the tornado. If with realistic inputs you can show a good profit, then you might make it.

I have yet to have anyone bale my place and not have some kind of breakdown, sometimes minor and sometimes not. I have never had anyone bale my place that didn't have at least one other person on site all the time and at times I have helped out too.

If you can write an honest and complete business plan which puts you well ahead of costs then go for it and best of luck to you. If not then ask yourself why you think reality will turn out much more optimistically than your best plan shows. Wishful thinking is dangerous.

Pat