Cost of propane

/ Cost of propane #1  

strantor

Platinum Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
966
Location
Brazoria co., TX
Tractor
LS XR4140H
My house is all electric and there is no natural gas utility in my area. Water heater is >10yrs old, stove is 15 years old, dryer is 10 years old, HVAC system is 20 years old and falling (arguably fallen) apart and should have been replaced years ago. I have a lot of appliance replacements on the horizon and my latest fiasco with the electric company has me thinking propane might be the way to go. I just got off the phone with AmeriGas, getting a quote for large propane tank leasing and bulk propane delivery.

They quoted me:
$150/yr for a 250gal tank lease
$8.00 delivery charge
$1.40/gal of propane

I don't know how volatile propane prices are and to what degree they are subject to shortages, etc.
How does the above compare to the prices you're paying, how have the prices fluctuated over the years, and what kind future do you expect for propane usage and pricing?

Also how big of a chore is it to install gas lines in a house that never had them?
 
/ Cost of propane #2  
I have had propane for 30 yrs and love it . THat is a pretty good price for it although i would try to buy a used 500 gal tank. No need to pay rent.
 
/ Cost of propane #3  
They quoted me:
$150/yr for a 250gal tank lease
$8.00 delivery charge
$1.40/gal of propane

I don't know how volatile propane prices are and to what degree they are subject to shortages, etc.


See this thread: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/rural-living/405384-propane-today-1-509-gal.html

LP prices are almost as volatile as the gas. I've seen them vary by almost a dollar a gallon from November to February.

That tank lease price is a ripoff. I paid $700 for my 500 gallon tank 20 years ago. I don't know what they charge now, but when you buy your tank, you're free to price shop between suppliers at will. When you're on a lease, you're stuck with getting gas from only that one, which isn't always the current lowest.

Also, 250 gallons is not a 'large' tank. Depending on how severe your winters are, you could be filling that twice a winter or more. Generally, you want a 500 gallon tank at a minimum. And there should not be a delivery fee on LP fills.
 
/ Cost of propane #4  
I forgot to mention calling around for other prices we have amerigas here also and you have to watch out for some bad deals they try to pull. Also depending on codes in your area gas lines are fairly easy to install with a limited amount of tools.
 
/ Cost of propane #5  
Dunno about Texas but in Wisconsin 250 gals. will not go very far. You should be able to estimate your needs from your electric bills. As for the quote, the tank rental is steep but realize they maintain it...there are some wear parts in there like regulators/valves. $1.40/gal. is reasonable (I think I "pre-payed" $1.39 for my estimated needs in July) but can swing wildly at least around here (dependent on supply going to grain dryers and overall demand). Ask about various options to lock in a price (via a "cap" or "pre-buy").
 
/ Cost of propane #6  
If you decide to go propane, buying a new tank and regulators is a good long term investment. Install it on a concrete pad, or even raise it up some on blocks so you can paint it easier thru the years. Up here in Michigan, the local family run propane outfits are usually better to deal with than the national brand propane suppliers. The Nationals seem to be the ones that have all the rip off fees and price increases.
 
/ Cost of propane #7  
Here in NC, I went through Southern States Coop. to purchase a new 500 gallon above ground tank. Cost was $1590 for the tank, delivery to the house + install was $116. Install would have been more if I hadn't prepped the site ahead of time, setting up & leveling cement block supports for the feet. I was adding it parallel to an existing self owned tank so that install price does not include a regulator, only fittings & copper pipe. None of the other propane distributors in the area were interested in pricing a tank for me, they all wanted to provide a "free" tank (& lock me into purchasing from them).

Around here propane pricing fluctuates with the seasons, highest in fall -> winter. There are also massive differences between suppliers & who they are dealing with. I've seen suppliers in Raleigh quoting $3-$4 per gallon while folks around here (60 miles away) were quoting $2 (or less). You pretty much have to call around & get quotes to see what the spot price is. Also, some places want to add a fee if the delivery is going to be less than 100 gallons - that can vary by supplier. It can also make a difference if you need a quick delivery or can wait for a truck to be "in the area" doing other deliveries.
 
/ Cost of propane #8  
I have a 100 gallon tank for my generator. It's the only propane I use.

When I had it installed I also had a 100 gallon tank for the stove in the house but The Wife decided she wanted an electric stove. However, it just made sense at the time to have the same outfit set up a tank for the generator. They also provide fuel oil for the furnace, so one-stop shopping entered into the picture.

I have come to regret that decision. With just the generator on propane, and on a "will call" delivery schedule, AND never getting anything like 100 gallons at a time, I get reamed big-time on the price. Just had it topped off today, 43 gallons at $4.319/gallon.

I'd tell them to pound sand but there really isn't a better option right now, and the electric company can't seem to keep the power on lately. We've had more outages in the last 3 months than in the last 3 years.

Next summer I may look into a 500 gallon tank and an independent supplier.
 
/ Cost of propane #10  
Around my area, the delivery price is lowest when getting 100 Gal. or more. When we built our new home several years ago and switched to propane, we purchased a 500 Gal tank and can call any propane supplier we wish. If we rented a tank, we would have been stuck with whichever propane company we rented the tank from.

The only regret I have is that I should have went with a 1,000 Gal. tank. However, I can live with the smaller tank.
 
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/ Cost of propane #11  
I am in Wisconsin. I had a rented tank once,never again. Bad experience with the gas company. I now own all of my tanks. I buy my gas in late summer and shop around for the best price. I am heating my house,shop,and a large commercial building.If for some odd reason the gas price would skyrocket I have enough filled propane tanks to last 2 years.Also me and my neighbor buy gas at the same time,between the 2 of us we are getting about 4500 gls. It is amazing the price break on large quantities. This past summer when we bought was less than 90 cents per gallon. If you have the storage space it is a far better deal to buy it than to do a pre-buy.
 
/ Cost of propane #12  
Bought our own new 500 gal.LP tank about 8 years ago for $500 bucks.Nice to have your own tank to shop price.I have seen propane prices the last 25 years from 88 cents-$4.50 per gallon.Go figure???
 
/ Cost of propane #13  
When we put in a pool we swapped out our 250g tank for two 1000g tanks. We don't run the pool any more but we use about 850g/year, and so given that they often only will fill to 75-80% (expansion room required for heat) we can refill once a year at the best price and still have plenty of reserve space.

We typically pay about $1.40/g to fill which is about $1+ better than Amerigas's *best* price of the year - and we don't get "topped up" at whatever rapacious price they're charging each month.

Regardless of where you live, owning your own is a good investment.
 
/ Cost of propane #14  
25 years ago we replaced our old oil fired furnace with a heat pump. Since we had no back up heat we went ahead and put in gas logs for a back up source for heat. I should have purchased my tank at that time but didn't. I'm sure that I have paid for it a couple of times but I use very little propane for backup and my supplier typically fills me up only once a year. The prices are always reasonable and we have never seen large fluctuations that I can recollect. If I was relying on propane for full time heat and cooking I would have purchased a 500 gallon tank and shopped price.

My long term relationship with my supplier paid dividends several years ago. I had to refill an old acetylene tank of my dad's and they did it. I just had to get it re- certified. Dad purchased these tanks years ago. I know that some suppliers will not refill customer owned tanks.
 
/ Cost of propane #15  
I bought a reconditioned 500 gal. tank from my propane supplier for $1000 last year. 250 gallons would be too small in my location even though I supplement with wood heat.

I have seen prices ranging from $1.20's to over $5.00 in the last six years. I pre-bought this summer at $1.39. You will see more volatility in cost with propane. It is easy to calculate your breakeven cost between propane and electricity. If I reach that point, I would use electric heaters to augment propane as I have enough power to do so. I think the last time I did the calculation it was at about $3.00 a gal.
 
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/ Cost of propane #16  
My dad used to do the same thing with heating oil. We always filled up in August when the price was lowest. Our tank would hold 550 gallons. We always had to put in an extra 200 gallons in February and the price was always higher per gallon. It is nice not to have to do that anymore with the heat pump but a forced air oil furnace does put our nice warm air.
 
/ Cost of propane #17  
Also how big of a chore is it to install gas lines in a house that never had them?


Well, you got lots of answers on the other stuff but I didn't see this addressed too well.

A lot of how easy it will be depends on whether your house is on a slab or over a basement/crawl space. Obviously, a basement or crawl space will make it a lot easier than a slab. I've never done work on a slab so unless you can get a pipe to each appliance through an outside wall I don't have any clue as to whether you can go up into an attic and then back down....

I'm far from being an expert here but many years of building custom homes and having piped both our old house and the one we now live in have given me some experience.

The first thing I'd do is talk to the local propane folks about what is involved with the installation and also talk to your local building inspector. Some areas require new installation to be permitted and/or inspected. Some even require every change to be permitted and/or inspected although that is usually in big cities only. Don't cut corners with permits or inspections as you would be far from the first person who had an insurance claim denied or who got criminally charged if someone got hurt as a result of an improper installation.

With all that said, the installation will generally involve some combination of rigid pipe, corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) or copper lines. Again, your local supplier or code enforcement folks will know if any of those are preferred or prohibited. Some LP supplies have a chemical makeup that is corrosive to some piping material, some is considered "dirty" and may require in-line filters and some may be considered "wet". And you may need drip/debris legs at each appliance location. Pay particular attention to the hot water heater as they generally require a drip/debris leg.

Pay particular attention to whatever grounding requirements your type of installation and material choice requires. For instance some CSST requires a bare 6 gauge copper wire run to the building's main electrical ground. Some installations require a completely separate grounding system. Local codes can seem pretty screwy but that's the world we live in.

It might be helpful to look at the back of a few ranges and dryers at you local appliance outlet so you can get an idea of where the gas inlets are and where the gas line can be brought out of the floor/wall and land in the hollow space on the rear of the range. If you already have the appliance or know what you will buy it makes siting the stub-out easier.

CSST often requires a few special tools and the fittings used must be from the same manufacturer as the tubing. It's pricey but fast. Copper and steel pipe are also well within the ability of the average handyman to run especially if you have a pipe threader. It is worth noting that some jurisdictions require any pipe exposed in a room to be steel pipe due to the chance of damage.

I know I didn't cover everything you need to know and also hope I didn't scare you away. I suspect that if you're on a site like this you can most likely handle this project yourself (with a little advice).


Lance
 
/ Cost of propane #18  
Yeah I know how you feel I'm in Windham Maine and they screw me on the price of propane because I only have it for my generator. I wish I could get natural gas to come down the street that's not going to happen anytime soon. I've been thinking the next time my 100 gallon tanks need to be filled I'm going to talk to another dealer to put in a 500 gallon tank have it filled it will probably last me for 10 years.
 
/ Cost of propane
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Well, you got lots of answers on the other stuff but I didn't see this addressed too well.

A lot of how easy it will be depends on whether your house is on a slab or over a basement/crawl space. Obviously, a basement or crawl space will make it a lot easier than a slab. I've never done work on a slab so unless you can get a pipe to each appliance through an outside wall I don't have any clue as to whether you can go up into an attic and then back down....

I'm far from being an expert here but many years of building custom homes and having piped both our old house and the one we now live in have given me some experience.

The first thing I'd do is talk to the local propane folks about what is involved with the installation and also talk to your local building inspector. Some areas require new installation to be permitted and/or inspected. Some even require every change to be permitted and/or inspected although that is usually in big cities only. Don't cut corners with permits or inspections as you would be far from the first person who had an insurance claim denied or who got criminally charged if someone got hurt as a result of an improper installation.

With all that said, the installation will generally involve some combination of rigid pipe, corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) or copper lines. Again, your local supplier or code enforcement folks will know if any of those are preferred or prohibited. Some LP supplies have a chemical makeup that is corrosive to some piping material, some is considered "dirty" and may require in-line filters and some may be considered "wet". And you may need drip/debris legs at each appliance location. Pay particular attention to the hot water heater as they generally require a drip/debris leg.

Pay particular attention to whatever grounding requirements your type of installation and material choice requires. For instance some CSST requires a bare 6 gauge copper wire run to the building's main electrical ground. Some installations require a completely separate grounding system. Local codes can seem pretty screwy but that's the world we live in.

It might be helpful to look at the back of a few ranges and dryers at you local appliance outlet so you can get an idea of where the gas inlets are and where the gas line can be brought out of the floor/wall and land in the hollow space on the rear of the range. If you already have the appliance or know what you will buy it makes siting the stub-out easier.

CSST often requires a few special tools and the fittings used must be from the same manufacturer as the tubing. It's pricey but fast. Copper and steel pipe are also well within the ability of the average handyman to run especially if you have a pipe threader. It is worth noting that some jurisdictions require any pipe exposed in a room to be steel pipe due to the chance of damage.

I know I didn't cover everything you need to know and also hope I didn't scare you away. I suspect that if you're on a site like this you can most likely handle this project yourself (with a little advice).


Lance

Thank you for addressing that. I never considered all the building code and inspections/permits, and insurance. I was thinking more from the practical side of things; actually doing the work of the installation. I should know by now that the work is not (or shouldn't be) the first consideration in any project like this. I have no doubt I could thread the steel pipe, sweat the copper pipe, bend the stainless tubing; I've done all those things before and apart from a pipe threader I already have probably all the tools needed. But dealing with people (esp. inspectors and authoritarian types) isn't my strong suit. I'm not a people person and particularly bad at placating people to get things done. Little patience for rules that don't make sense.

This is starting to sound like probably something I should have a pro do for me. I've historically been a 95% DIY type guy but as I mature I'm starting to see the value in letting go of the reigns when it makes sense to do so. Like when a pro could do it 5x as fast as I could, and I could make twice the money exercising my own talents to pay him in the timeframe it would have taken me to do it.
 
/ Cost of propane #20  
If you decide to do the piping yourself, check with your insurance company as to whether they will cover you if something happens. Getting a permit and inspection is for sure a necessity but your insurance company may insist on a certified technician to do the work.
 
 
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