Converting old thermostart to electric

[bmaverick]

The hard parts to find are the tubing lines and little reservoirs.

Fredricks Equipment has them 'new'.

Tank, thermostart – HT-4460
Part Number: 124460-77802​

Tank, thermostart - HT-4460 - Fredricks Equipment Parts

Wow, they sure jumped up in price. And it's used on all the John Deere compacts too.

There are 2 types of these thermostart tanks. The link is for the type flowing from the fuel tank.


This one is for the stand alone reservoir. The normal price I'm use to seeing.

Thermostart tank – HT-1750​

Part Number: 121750-77800

Thermostart tank - HT-1750 - Fredricks Equipment Parts

Description: Thermostart tank Applications: 140, 147, 187, 220, 226, 250, 336, 1401, 1502, 1510, 1610, 1702, 1720, YMG1800, 1802, 1810, 1820, YMG2000, 2001, 2002, 2010, 2020, 2202, 2220, 2301, 2310, 2402, 2420, 2620, 2820, 3220, 3810, 4220, 4300, F16 Part Number: 121750-77800

fredricksequipment.com

 

[Strahwberry]

This is really great stuff and insight. Trying to answer some of the questions posed here back to me:
1. Does it have a decompression lever: Yes, have the decompression lever and I do use it
2. "If it isn't clapped out": I'm starting to wonder if it is. Hates to start cold, no matter if it's 90 or 0 degrees out. Once it's warmed up, it fires right up like a new motor.
3. Does the current thermostart work: yes with a caveat. it gets hot and smokes, so I'm assuming that means it's working. How I know this much, is it appears when the previous owner had the intake off, they didn't replace the gasket between the air filter/intake pipe and the engine. So there's a crack of daylight. (I have a gasket on order). Maybe that's the problem?
3. The power draw concern on the battery and alternator is an interesting concern. Do the newer tractors have much bigger batteries to handle the draw? Also, that seems like a huge amperage draw, when 1500 watt hairdryer on a 120v/10amp plug can have similar results.

My ops plan based on all the feedback, is to start with just spending the $20 on a new thermostart plug (if the old one ends up functioning just fine, perfect, the new one will go on the parts shelf for when/if it goes bad), an oil pan heater, and freeze plug heater. If that doesn't work, then I'll go more drastic with the electric conversion. Once I some testing done with the set-up, I'll post some end results.

Jon

 

[winston1]

I know your 155 has a 1" pipe plug upper center left hand side of block that can be removed. I am not certain your block will accept this heater. I think I would pull the plug and take a look inside before ordering. BLOCK HEATER - 400 WATT - SCREW IN - INCLUDES CORD

 

[bmaverick]

This is really great stuff and insight. Trying to answer some of the questions posed here back to me:
1. Does it have a decompression lever: Yes, have the decompression lever and I do use it
2. "If it isn't clapped out": I'm starting to wonder if it is. Hates to start cold, no matter if it's 90 or 0 degrees out. Once it's warmed up, it fires right up like a new motor.
3. Does the current thermostart work: yes with a caveat. it gets hot and smokes, so I'm assuming that means it's working. How I know this much, is it appears when the previous owner had the intake off, they didn't replace the gasket between the air filter/intake pipe and the engine. So there's a crack of daylight. (I have a gasket on order). Maybe that's the problem?
3. The power draw concern on the battery and alternator is an interesting concern. Do the newer tractors have much bigger batteries to handle the draw? Also, that seems like a huge amperage draw, when 1500 watt hairdryer on a 120v/10amp plug can have similar results.

My ops plan based on all the feedback, is to start with just spending the $20 on a new thermostart plug (if the old one ends up functioning just fine, perfect, the new one will go on the parts shelf for when/if it goes bad), an oil pan heater, and freeze plug heater. If that doesn't work, then I'll go more drastic with the electric conversion. Once I some testing done with the set-up, I'll post some end results.

Jon

Jon, Take good read at the attached.

 

[Jframe]

I've had a 1982 165d for about 25 years in a N. Pacific coastal climate that sometimes sees zero degrees F, or a little colder. The thermostart device worked the one time I tried it, but a block heater and a hair dryer seem to work too so that is what I use. I count to 20 using the decompression release. Here we have great fuel oil so that is what I burn in the Yanmar and in the Bobcat skid steer. Once warm the engine starts right up after lunch or after taking a phone call throughout the day. My garage is not heated.

Many years ago a buddy and I went hunting with a fellow on his 25 foot sailboat. This fellow and his wife had taken the sailboat on trips of thousands of miles. When I looked at the engine it looked exactly like my 165d, 2-cylinder engine. He said that when he used synthetic motor oil, and his battery was dead he could get that Yanmar diesel going by hand; but if he wasn't using synthetic oil he was not nearly strong enough to get it started. That was important when he was hundreds of miles from land in the N. Pacific and the Yanmar was his only source of electricity for radios, etc.

As a teenager I sometimes lived back in woods shacks logging with a provided log skidder, working on a piece rate pay system. Winter temperatures reached an honest minus 30 degrees F. The skidders of various makes would never start unless I brought the motor oil into the cabin every night to heat it on the sheet metal stove beginning long before daylight. With heated oil the skidders always started very well. That same stove cooked all the food.

 

[etpm]

I've had a 1982 165d for about 25 years in a N. Pacific coastal climate that sometimes sees zero degrees F, or a little colder. The thermostart device worked the one time I tried it, but a block heater and a hair dryer seem to work too so that is what I use. I count to 20 using the decompression release. Here we have great fuel oil so that is what I burn in the Yanmar and in the Bobcat skid steer. Once warm the engine starts right up after lunch or after taking a phone call throughout the day. My garage is not heated.

Many years ago a buddy and I went hunting with a fellow on his 25 foot sailboat. This fellow and his wife had taken the sailboat on trips of thousands of miles. When I looked at the engine it looked exactly like my 165d, 2-cylinder engine. He said that when he used synthetic motor oil, and his battery was dead he could get that Yanmar diesel going by hand; but if he wasn't using synthetic oil he was not nearly strong enough to get it started. That was important when he was hundreds of miles from land in the N. Pacific and the Yanmar was his only source of electricity for radios, etc.

As a teenager I sometimes lived back in woods shacks logging with a provided log skidder, working on a piece rate pay system. Winter temperatures reached an honest minus 30 degrees F. The skidders of various makes would never start unless I brought the motor oil into the cabin every night to heat it on the sheet metal stove beginning long before daylight. With heated oil the skidders always started very well. That same stove cooked all the food.

I don't understand the counting to twenty when using the decompression feature. Maybe I'm missing something. I thought using the decompression feature was just to get the engine spinning easier so life is easier for the starter. At least that's what the manual for my YM2310 implies. Does spinning the engine longer and then letting go of the decompression knob help the engine start easier? Right now I use the thermostart and it certainly helps in cold weather. In warm weather the machine starts right up.
Thanks,
Eric

 

[thepumpguysc]

A 20 count is excessive.. I think the most I’ve gone is 6 1000..
The decomp is to heat the cylinders..
Don’t u count when using your thermostart.??

 

[ponytug]

Once you have the engine spinning at full crank speed, I think that you are good to go. If you really wanted to wait a little longer to get some oil higher up in the engine, go for it. Personally, I just wait until the engine is at crank speed and then release the decompression. Most diesels are pretty good at igniting at that point unless the engine and air are both pretty cold and the fuel is heavy, hence the thermostart, or intake heaters, or glow plugs, or pony motors to heat the main engine by compression heating, which doesn't happen with decompression.

All the best,

Peter

 

[bmaverick]

I don't understand the counting to twenty when using the decompression feature. Maybe I'm missing something. I thought using the decompression feature was just to get the engine spinning easier so life is easier for the starter. At least that's what the manual for my YM2310 implies. Does spinning the engine longer and then letting go of the decompression knob help the engine start easier? Right now I use the thermostart and it certainly helps in cold weather. In warm weather the machine starts right up.
Thanks,
Eric

Its turn or pull for decompression, then turn the key for thermostart and count to 20, 1000s.

I use decompression in the summer, it's just a pull on my machine and crank while pushing it in. No thermostart needed then.

 

[etpm]

Its turn or pull for decompression, then turn the key for thermostart and count to 20, 1000s.

I use decompression in the summer, it's just a pull on my machine and crank while pushing it in. No thermostart needed then.

OK, I see. From your post it seemed like you cranked the engine for 20 seconds with the decompression knob pulled.
Eric

 

[Jframe]

I don't understand the counting to twenty when using the decompression feature. Maybe I'm missing something. I thought using the decompression feature was just to get the engine spinning easier so life is easier for the starter. At least that's what the manual for my YM2310 implies. Does spinning the engine longer and then letting go of the decompression knob help the engine start easier? Right now I use the thermostart and it certainly helps in cold weather. In warm weather the machine starts right up.
Thanks,
Eric

At least for me and my Yanmar it takes counting to 20 for the battery to get the decompressed engine up to the maximum RPM. It's been too long since I looked at the operating manual so I cannot recall what it says. I do very much like the idea of getting the oil going before I add fuel to the cylinders to start it. Also, it sounds a little like the air starter on B-61 Macks, the first tractor-trailers I every drove, and I suppose that brings back memories (sort of joking about this). I was very young, and so far as I know it's impossible to hit that air starter while driving by a fellow on a bicycle and have that fellow jump right off the bike.

 

[chuck9832]

Hello! I was wondering if anyone had, and if they thought it was worth it to convert the thermostart to an all electric heater. I've started looking at something like:
https://www.amazon.com/Standard-DIH4-Diesel-Intake-Heater/dp/B01BTTZ8GG
or
https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Mot...dp/B0052XIOCG/ref=psdc_15719731_t2_B01BTTZ8GG

I have emails out to sellers to check size dimensions to see if it would even fit.

I'm keeping my tractor in my shop this winter and it'll be heated to 40 degrees. Warmer than outside, but, still cold enough to need pre-heat.

Thanks!
Jon

Hello! I was wondering if anyone had, and if they thought it was worth it to convert the thermostart to an all electric heater. I've started looking at something like:
https://www.amazon.com/Standard-DIH4-Diesel-Intake-Heater/dp/B01BTTZ8GG
or
https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Mot...dp/B0052XIOCG/ref=psdc_15719731_t2_B01BTTZ8GG

I have emails out to sellers to check size dimensions to see if it would even fit.

I'm keeping my tractor in my shop this winter and it'll be heated to 40 degrees. Warmer than outside, but, still cold enough to need pre-heat.

Thanks!
Jon

Install a engine heater I put one on my 226d Yanmar works great very easy to install fits into one of the freeze plugs in the engine block I just plug it in a half an hour before wanting to use the tractor which is parked outside in AL

 

[bmaverick]

OK, I see. From your post it seemed like you cranked the engine for 20 seconds with the decompression knob pulled.
Eric

Since it's winter and the thermostart is talked about here, yet how does one look in action?

This is the BEST YT vid I've found and gives a very clear way to it's operation.

 

[bmaverick]

Since it's winter and the thermostart is talked about here, yet how does one look in action?

This is the BEST YT vid I've found and gives a very clear way to it's operation.

And for those who want to add the electric grid heater on the intake, here's a DIY method. Pros and Cons to each, yet options are always handy to have.

 

[ponytug]

There is also this one showing the thermostart in situ.

 

[etpm]

There is also this one showing the thermostart in situ.

Yeah, I watched mine not work in situ. Removing the air intake hose gives a person a direct view of the thermostart device. I watched all 3 heat up red hot. I watched 2 of them work for a few seconds, as far as letting diesel fuel flow and flame up. But the two that actually let the fuel flow only did so a couple times. Even trying to get the fuel to flow by blowing into a tube full of diesel connected to the thermostart only worked once and even then only for a second or two. I have come up with a solution. I bought a solenoid valve that is controlled by the wire that went to the original thermostart. I am now going to experiment using a punch and hammer to displace the little ball that is part of the valve in the new thermostart. The objective is to get the damn thing to flow some diesel. But only the correct amount. The solenoid valve will prevent dripping when the thermostart is not being used. So my tractor will work the way it did originally. I know, it's a lot of hassle. But after 3 thermostarts not working even though they all get plenty hot I'm sick of the situation so I'm doing something I know will work.
Eric

 

[ponytug]

Yeah, I watched mine not work in situ. Removing the air intake hose gives a person a direct view of the thermostart device. I watched all 3 heat up red hot. I watched 2 of them work for a few seconds, as far as letting diesel fuel flow and flame up. But the two that actually let the fuel flow only did so a couple times. Even trying to get the fuel to flow by blowing into a tube full of diesel connected to the thermostart only worked once and even then only for a second or two. I have come up with a solution. I bought a solenoid valve that is controlled by the wire that went to the original thermostart. I am now going to experiment using a punch and hammer to displace the little ball that is part of the valve in the new thermostart. The objective is to get the damn thing to flow some diesel. But only the correct amount. The solenoid valve will prevent dripping when the thermostart is not being used. So my tractor will work the way it did originally. I know, it's a lot of hassle. But after 3 thermostarts not working even though they all get plenty hot I'm sick of the situation so I'm doing something I know will work.
Eric

It must be frustrating.

Have you tried cleaning them, and the fuel line feeding them? (I like the punch idea, but I would be gentle so the bimetallic gizmo doesn't get compressed too hard.) Brake cleaner? Could they just be old and I need of replacement? They are mechanically very simple, so there isn't really much to go wrong.

I have no experience with it, but could they be cleaned in an ultrasonic cleaner?

All the best,

Peter

 

[California]

Strange. I've bought two. One genuine Perkins (The patent owner) and one generic replica. Both fine.

 

[etpm]

All brand new. All clean. I took one apart to see exactly how the valving works. The valve mechanism is a metal tube with a heating coil wrapped around it. This tube is threaded internally. There is a steel ball inside. This ball is pressed against an orifice by a set screw. This screw is adjusted and then spot welded so that it cannot move. When the coil heats the tube it expands lengthwise which allows the ball to fall away from the orifice. For some reason the balls in my 3 brand new thermostarts do not fall away from the orifice.
Eric

 

[bmaverick]

All brand new. All clean. I took one apart to see exactly how the valving works. The valve mechanism is a metal tube with a heating coil wrapped around it. This tube is threaded internally. There is a steel ball inside. This ball is pressed against an orifice by a set screw. This screw is adjusted and then spot welded so that it cannot move. When the coil heats the tube it expands lengthwise which allows the ball to fall away from the orifice. For some reason the balls in my 3 brand new thermostarts do not fall away from the orifice.
Eric

Just like the video I posted. Nice.

I do like the heater grid element too. Yanmar Deere went this way from the US Series, and newer.