Good. I don't want to hear from you and there are a number of very good reasons why. That is why I am posting again, and for others that may have an interest in the problems, and real solutions presented instead of egotistical nonsense. Put simply and directly, your conclusions are not only baseless, they are absurd and flat out insulting. Worse, they are the kind of ex-spurt advice that can cause a serious injury to person and/or property. Unfortunately far too many have not learned to be wary of self styled "internet experts." Power transmission whether electrical, hydraulic, or other is very dangerous if you don't know exactly what you are dealing with. In the case of my equipment it is very clear that you don't and it involves far more than what you "believe." I stated over and over that I simply didn't have the proper information.
I stated that I am a lifelong electrician/ skilled tradesman with zero hydraulic experience. That was relative to the question posed i.e. "control valve confusion" yet it would seem that anyone with common sense would know the relationship between the two. It is a fact that while I am now retired, I spent close to 40 years wiring industrial machinery, factories, and large scale commercial and industrial projects. The last couple of decades were spent in supervisory capacities yet I never gave up hands on work. My point is that I learned, and passed on, how to be safe. That means knowing both the proper procedures and a mandatory knowledge of the equipment being connected...other wise you don't do it. Generally, If it didn't have an engineers stamp on it, I wouldn't touch it. But even then, I checked for myself and made sure everyone around me did the same. Even retired I still get calls from engineers asking how something should be done.
So I am not going to parse words over whether I have experience. With the issues at hand I don't. But I have realistically connected in excess of ten thousand electro-mechanical control systems. It is absurd to conclude that I would not know the difference between a single action and double action cylinder or how a pressure relief valve works e.g. need for tank return among many other things. If I didn't, I sure as **** wouldn't attempt to do what I am doing.
So did I say that I "blow a relief valve" every time I lower my loader bucket? No. If I ever did, which I haven't, the key would go to off and would not be turned back on until I found out exactly what caused it and corrected it. Anything else would be absurdly stupid. What I said was is that I had pressure at both rear quick connects and had to find out exactly what port functions were involved. I didn't say that I was "deadheading" and blowing the relief valve. That was one of your (baseless )conclusions and totally removed from the question presented. Now that I have tested it, I have the answer. But I am going to back up to the original question posted because the answers, and the methods lie there.
One more time:
I bought a Chief directional control to use as a 4 way closed center to control 2 double action cylinders. I posted the "instruction" sheet with the schematic. It is interesting to note that I found others who had the same "confusion" and no one ever answered the questions posed.
Look at the schematic for the 4 way operation. In the center neutral position it is closed. Flow (P) bypasses and returns to the tank.(T) In the other positions work ports A and B are also diagrammed and again return is routed to T as tank. That is the correct operation for my purposes.
Now look at the directional control valve body and you have ports P- A- B- T-and N. Nowhere is on the schematic is it shown that the Tank return port is plugged and nowhere is port "N" depicted. Thus, I posted my "confusion" hoping to find someone familiar with this Bulgarian spool and the handful of plugs they provide. I provided the function sought . No luck getting an answer. So I simply used the plugs and drew my own schematic by using compressed air to trace the control spool functions relative to the ports while operating the control lever. Not exactly rocket science but a pain. Port N can be used for tandem operation or your so called "power beyond." "P' enters and is bypassed to the pressure control valve and continues internally to T. For my purposes all I had to do was remove the plug from T and plug N. It now functions exactly as the schematic shows. It is impressive how this control can be used but the "instructions" are incomplete and wholly worthless. A schematic is one thing. Knowing the flow paths through the valve body or manifold is another. I don't connect anything until I know and the only way to tell if it will function if that info is not provided. If they are going to sell these, they should diagram everything. I looked at some Prince products and they provide it.
I used the same air method on the tractor auxiliary double spool. Of course I had to remove it. But it needs cleaned, checked, and painted. As I stated, I had a very different piece of equipment. For those that have this aux control spool and want to add another spool with it, you can...just like I thought in the beginning although not where I thought I could tap into pump flow. Yet there is a external port for pump pressure. So as a courtesy I will provide the info.
I have no idea whether this can be done with other old Massey models. I have a Massey Harris 50 made in 1957. I am the second owner. The hour meter stopped at 45,000+hours. The loader was made by Freeman here in Peru Indiana and was purchased with the tractor. It started every time this winter even in 40 below wind chill weather. While its not pretty, this old work horse just keeps going just like I plan to. The loader bucket is shot and I am fabricating a new one. Overall, the tractor has been very well maintained.
All internal valve body passages were traced from the standpipe using compressed air:
1. The left or three point spool is single acting.
2. The right is double acting. I stated that I had pressure at both rear hoses and had used both. This spool has likely been used with single acting lift cylinders for more than 50 years and has never blown a relief valve that I know of. Tracing the internals reveals how this operates and is perfectly fine for either single or double action cylinders. See pics and other info below.
3. I began by removing the side cover and as I thought, I found pump and return ports.
View attachment 367094
The center and 2 inside ports go directly to the pump. However, the center is affected by the spool but interestingly also supplies pressure to the pump cover.
View attachment 367096
4. While I had stated that I had pressure from the rear hose quick connect, I didn't but was close. On the rear of the control there is a port chamber controlled by spring loaded valve which can be adjusted to prevent or allow double action flow.
View attachment 367097
5. This pissing match came about from my belief that I could add a spool and pick up straight pump flow when I did not pose that question. Here it is. Return can be routed to the lift cover or the aux spools. This leads me right back to the original intent and question. Use a closed center 4 way 3 position directional and it will work.
View attachment 367098
While I will most likely fabricate a side cover rather than use this old one , I haven't decided. The side cover I thick and old seasoned cast iron so there is t also the possibility of drilling and tapping into the side for easier access and compatible fittings. I bench tested this and know it works.
Other questions PM me. You wont see me back on this forum. For Namyessam, shove it.
