Computer Woes

PBMAX · Jan 6, 2004

Great Bird, good luck. I mentioned partitioning, but can't recall if xp will do this or if I used Partition Magic when I set up my hardrive last time. In DOS you could do it easily... But yeah I know what you mean I have built 18station networks and even wired the CASA, but I have not delved in to DEEP DEPTHS of PCs in a while as my pc has been gracious enough to behave the last year or so... It's amazing what changes in 6mnths to a year.... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif in the PC world today....

BillyP · Jan 6, 2004

I recently bought a new PC, with a 40GB hard drive. It came formated as drive C. I want to partition it into 3 drives.

Can you partition the free space of a hard drive, without reinstalling XP? Seems I remember you could do this with 95.

Bird · Jan 6, 2004

Paul, I read through the instruction manual once; not sure at all of what it said, so I'll read it again before I open the case on this contraption. The extent of my working inside a computer was to install a Soundblaster board in an IBM over 10 years ago, then I later installed a CD-ROM in the same computer with no problems at all, but that was when we had Windows 3.1; not nearly so complicated.

Are you superstitious? Right after I read that manual, I was doing something else and discovered that one of my speakers had died. So, after checking everything to make sure it was really dead instead of a balance problem or some such, I went back to the store and bought new speakers (they work fine), but got almost back home when a black cat strolled across the road in front of me. Reckon it's safe to play with this machine in the next day or two? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

RoyJackson · Jan 6, 2004

"Can you partition the free space of a hard drive"

I thought XP had that built into it...maybe not though...

Anyway, if you want to partition the drive of a omputer that already has the OS and other applications loaded, you mightwant to see if Partition Magic has a version that is XP compatable.
Well, I did a search and it is compatable with Windows since Win 95. Click on this link for details .

I've used Partition Magic for about 3 years now. It works really good. One other nice thing about it is you can change the partition sizes (to make better use of your Hard Drive) as required, unlike FDISK (which requires formating the drive).

BillyP · Jan 6, 2004

Thanks Roy,

Looks like Partition Magic is what I'm looking for. If Win XP has something like it built in, I can't find it or any information.

Thanks again

dieselsmoke1 · Jan 6, 2004

Bird,
Pay close attention to the instructions regarding setting the new drive to master or slave.

Your existing drive will be the master, assuming you use the connector shared on the same ribbon cable.

If applicable, Set your new drive to the slave position by moving the jumper on the back (probably came as master or CS) with a pair of tweezers.

This will be required, as i doubt your PC will support cable select (CS or CSEL)

If this does not work, the drive position will need to be enabled in the bios. Nothing to be afraid of, I'll be glad to help talk you thru it if needed.

Bird · Jan 7, 2004

( Set your new drive to the slave position )

Supposedly the idea is to install the new drive, load all the software onto it, then copy all the data files to it, and then format, or otherwise wipe clean, the old drive and then use it for backups. So . . ., does this mean set the new drive to the slave position until everything is loaded onto it, then go back and switch them? It'll probably be this weekend at least before I have time to tackle the job, and I'll admit those instructions are not entirely clear to me.

Incidentally, since I know nothing about hard drive brands, models, etc., I'm assuming I got the right one for the right price. One guy said to just get an IDE hard drive of at least 40GB. Well, the packing slip that came with this computer says it has a "20GB Ultra ATA hard drive". I was also told that Fry's Electronics was the best retail store for that sort of thing and I'd never been in that store until yesterday. They certainly do have a little bit (or maybe a lot) of everything. They had a Maxtor Ultra ATA/133 showing a price of $119.99 (that's also the price on Maxtor's web site) on sale for $78.99 with a $30 rebate off that, which made it cheaper than the 40GB drives, so that's what I got. After I got home and read the instructions, I find it's made for a 3.5" drive bay and I'm not sure right now, but think I'll be putting it in a 5.25" bay and have to go back to the store and get the $9.95 brackets for that.

MossRoad · Jan 7, 2004

Bird,
One thing you could do is just pull the old drive out and stick the new drive in. Load it up with your operating system, programs, etc. That way, you take no chance of goofing up you existing drive. If you run into problems, just stop what you are doing. Pull the new drive out and stick the old drive back in, and you're back up and running in just a few minutes. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif This way, you can take your time, safegaurd your data, and not be rushed to get it done. Once it is up and running on the new drive, you can then worry, ah, err, concentrate on getting the old drive in as the slave drive, copying your data to the new drive, wiping it clean, setting it up for backups, etc... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Bird · Jan 7, 2004

David, I do believe that sounds like the safest way for me to go. Thanks.

PBMAX · Jan 7, 2004

Bisides, you can usually only BOOT up from one or the otherif you have 2 drives with OS's on them. You have to choose wich drive you will boot to if you leave them both connected. Since they both have Operating Systems on them. You mentioned, your original HD is set up as E: and not C:. So you may get some crazy results if you try to boot up with both harddrives connected. AS Xp will automaticly try to set up the NEW HARD DRIVE as C:....

My suggestions (as some one else alredy mentioned)is copy your saved files for the programs you need on your ZIP or CDR and then save them to the new drive once your up and running. Keep the old drive as is for a week or 2 till you've had time to make sure you got all you need off it. Then Reformat and stick it back in as xtra storage. That or toss it to one of the kids in the family as a freebee... Or put on in one of those new portable harddrive kitss for $50.

Bird, Installing PC parts has only gotten easier lately. Very few even have jumper settings any more as they let the BIOS or the OS determin thier settings. Some of my fellow Gamers still look for physical setting because they like to overdrive certain things...
Me, I'v gotten lazy /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gifThanks to XP, I just plug in the new hardware and let XP pick out the drivers and setting and go. Then I tweak IF need be.(Maybe load software for the new divice) Who has xtra time each week any more to play with this stuff...

Bird · Jan 7, 2004

( Very few even have jumper settings any more )

Unfortunately, the manual for this hard drive talks extensively about those jumper settings /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif, although it does also mention that XP might recognize it. Oh well, when I get time, I'll get back to the manual.

PBMAX · Jan 7, 2004

Thats usually my luck as well though the last HD I installed. Maxtor I believe came set as a Master and I a Setup disk with it as well. Enjoy...It's almost Friday and Sat. I get to STAY HOME and work......hmmmmm something sound wrong with that last part... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Bird · Jan 7, 2004

( Maxtor I believe came set as a Master and I a Setup disk with it as well. )

Yep, so did this one, and the 20 GB that's in the computer is a Maxtor Ultra also.

dieselsmoke1 · Jan 10, 2004

So how's the project coming, Bird?

Bird · Jan 11, 2004

( So how's the project coming, Bird? )

Probably about like you'd expect from a computer illiterate. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I installed the new hard drive, disconnected the cables from the original hard drive and connected them to the new one. As for the jumpers, I didn't mess with them at all; just left them as they were, which appears to me to be "cable select" on both drives. I disconnected the ribbon and power cables from the old drive and connnected the same to the new drive. Now the instructions that came with the new drive talk about modifying either the BIOS or CMOS, and tell what you'll see in the box on the screen ('cept you don't see anything like that on my screen), so I skipped that step and formatted the new drive. The instructions also mention formatting and "partitioning" the new drive, but I never saw any option or opportunity to do any "partitioning". So . . ., it was formatted with the single partition. Then I tried to install Windows XP from the CD I got a couple of years ago from Dell. As far as I could get was for it to boot to a message "NTLDR is missing""Press Ctrl+Atl+Del to restart". The instructions say when you get that to insert the CD and restart. Easy enough, right? But you just get that same message again. Now from there, the instructions shoot plumb over my head, talking about things like a "cylinder limitation jumper", buying additional jumpers, unplugging and plugging cable to or from ATAPI devices or drives, etc. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

For one thing, the XP CD I have is labelled "For distribution with a new PC only. For product support, contact the manufacturer of your PC" and I don't know for sure that it's even any good. I think I mentioned before that when I got it from Dell and "upgraded" from ME to XP, we had all kinds of weird problems, and when we finally got it working, the hard drive was drive E instead of C, the floppy stayed as A, the Zip drive is C, and the CD-ROM is D.

So for now, I have both hard drives hooked up, the new drive is F, and there's no problem using it for storage. I can copy files to and from it just fine, but since I'm only using about half the original 20GB drive, I really don't need another 80GB for backups. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As much as I hate to turn loose of any money right now, I'd be willing to spend the couple of hundred a genuine, in the box, from Microsoft, version of Windows XP costs if I knew I could solve the problem with it. Since most things are working OK on this contraption, I'm not in any big hurry, but I'll probably go back to Fry's service department this week and see if they're confident they could do whatever it takes to make the new drive the boot drive, call it drive C, preferably (but not absolutely required) partition it, and install a new version of XP on it. If so, I'll probably let them do it.

I seem to recall something else about some different file systems; FAT 32 and sumpin' else and think the old drive is FAT 32 and the new one may be the "sumpin' else". /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Who said ignorance has no limits? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

sendero · Jan 11, 2004

Somethin' else = NTFS. It is a much better filesystem than FAT (which is essentially '70s technology /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) and I don't think that having them co-exist this way is any problem...

beagdog · Jan 11, 2004

Hey Bird-

If you go to the Microsoft website you can download the XP startup disks (and put them on 5- 3 1/2" floppy's then boot from them), your OEM CD should work. Since you're back to the old drive, just download the files and copy to 3 1/2's. I'm guessing you didn't get to the BIOS to tell the PC to boot from CD. Even if you did sometimes the OEM CD's don't boot on some machines (especially Dells). If you did change to boot from CD, just change it back to boot from "A" and go through the routine using the floppys.

You'll probably have to call Microsoft after you reload, to get the copy of XP re-registered, but that won't be a problem, just tell them the details and they'll give you an unlock code about a mile long.

Good luck!

beagdog · Jan 11, 2004

Just double checked the MS website-it takes 6 3 1/2" floppys- don't remember if you're using XP Home or Pro- here's a link to both support sites:

Home:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=e8fe6868-6e4f-471c-b455-bd5afee126d8&displaylang=en

Pro:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=55820edb-5039-4955-bcb7-4fed408ea73f&DisplayLang=en

Hope this helps.

Bob999 · Jan 11, 2004

Bird,

This problem is documented in the Microsoft Knowledge base.

Microsoft Link

Hope this helps

Bird · Jan 12, 2004

I'd like to thank all of you for the information and assistance. I learned a little bit, but in the end decided that some things are best left to those who know best. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif So I put my computer in the computer hospital yesterday afternoon and got it back this afternoon. I had installed the new hard drive, but had the computer store add 256 MB of memory, format both hard drives for the NTFS file system, wipe everything out, make the new 80 GB hard drive the boot drive (even call it drive C: instead of E or F) and re-install Windows XP. So, for the last 5 hours I've been re-installing my other software (and no way I can read all the posts that have been made on the forum the 36 hours or so). In fact, I probably won't finish loading everything tonight, and the weather's so pretty just got to go play golf tomorrow. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif