COMPARISON: Oranges and Oranges

[DAP]

Kubota vs. Kioti

Having put more than 10 and less than 24 hours on various kubota B series tractors (and a several hours on a couple of different L and Grand L series machines), I took a 60 mile ride to the nearest Kioti dealer. I spent an hour and and a half driving the new CK20, 25 and 30 HST machines with loaders. Here's my take on the 'other orange'.

1. If you don't read the ENTIRE specification for each of these tractor makes, you will be confused, fooled or both.

2. The Kioto CK series does NOT compare well with the Kubuta B series.

Case in point, I thought casually that the CK25/30 machine would match up close to the B7800/B2910.

This comparison is a poor one. Although I've read each of the specs more than once, it still didn't dawn on me how much more B-E-E-F-Y the Kioti machines are: B7800 weighs in at 1700+- lbs and the CK30 is almost 3100 lbs. They are bascially the same size, same tire size, very close in width/height but the Kioti outweighs the Kubota by nearly 1400 pounds!!!! Guess what, it is translated into it's feel and handling as well. The CK30 is really a Grand L 3130 comparison at the very least! FPM are all significantly higher in the Kioti as well.

Too darned bad too, cause the L series and now I think the CK30 are too big for my needs.

The CK25 is an exact clone of the CK30 except for the engine, it's displacement and a coupla hundred pounds less in weight.

Anyone who might decide to tell you that fit and finish differences favor Kubota are either lying, ignorant, love to hear themselves talk babble or all three. The Kioti is a quality machine as good or better than the other orange, green or blue product.

The only minutia I can come up with is the lack of a quarter-inching valve on the Kioti.

This dealer was in western connecticut, so JUNKMAN, please PM me. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ...and has been selling Kioti's for over 8 years.

For you CK20 owners out there, that is an unusual machine as far as size and weight go. Not sure where I'd place it compartively, but it looks like a B2410 sized machine (and I'll bet it weighs a lot more though I don't have the spec in front of me).

Now, mind you, due to comparative marketing design, the Kioti's (CK25/30) suffer from the same problems most of the other CUTS do:

1. Bad fuel filler location
2. Poor ergonomics in lever/control placement for cruise and parking brake, FWD selector, etc.

All in all, these machines are competitive with anything out there. This includes the accuracy of my prophesizing regarding price. I posted back in March that I thought Kioti would engage in some perception management and MSRP their new CK machines at or above the competition. This is now a fact in the NE region.

I know this might lead to the continual debate regarding weight arguments in the manufacturing process. So be it.

The other than the typically bad ergonomic design of some levers and rods, the operator station rivals the Blue machines and was terribly comfortable (although the seat didn't swivel).

The CK20 DID have a rather bad tap in the engine, especially under load. I would like to have investigated that further with the mech - the machine was JUST put together that day - although he didn't PUT THE ENGINE TOGETHER! LOL

Anyway, I came away both impressed and a little dissapointed (the power to weight ratio is eating at me a little).

There you have it.

 

[To20Chris]

I'll have more thoughts on this later I'll bet (right now I'm taking a water break from moving topsoil with the LK!), but a couple of things come to mind:

The CK20 weighs 50% more than a B7510/7610.

The quarter inching valve is not an advantage, it's a cost savings - note that the more expensive B's don't have it.

Power to weight is real important in race cars, weight is the only thing providing traction on your tractor. Even with a 3000lb tractor + filled R4s, I still wish for more sometimes!

I'm gald you took the time to go try them out & post! I too think the cost savings will begin to slip away now /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[DAP]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm gald you took the time to go try them out & post! I too think the cost savings will begin to slip away now /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif )</font>

Chris .. in this region, the cost savings is going going gone.

I might be in a peculiar minority, but extra machine weight for me is something I'm trying to avoid, making the Kubota's somewhat more attractive. I live in gushy-squishy land (and no, that's not a UK term for fornication!).

 

[johnday]

Dap; Your right! Thats an expression you say when mushypeas are served. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[To20Chris]

Weight has its advantages - and disadvantages! You certainly should pick the machine that best fits your requirements. Fortunately, you have many good choices!

 

[Steve_Miller]

Excellent post Doug,
I did sort of the same thing before I bought, but had them deliver me a blue, orange and the other orange to my yard for me to try out on my terms. I too prefer the extra weight for the reason that I will not be doing any mowing with it. As for you I agree that Kioti lacks in lever placement but make up in the fit and finish. I was not happy with Kubota's fit and finish as much as the Kioti. Another thing was the Kioti had a real altenator (40-50 amp) as opposed to the dynamo (14-15 amp) on the Kubota. I plan on putting lots of lights on for night work. This was another add on for Kubota which where I live was on top of the over $3000 difference already. As far as the blue tractor, I wasn't as comfortable with it at all. Maybe down the road I can put my words together to explain that feeling. The Kubota drive train had the best feel by far compared to the three I tried which by the way were all hydro's. In case some of you think I'm against Kubota, that can be no further from the truth as I just sold my B7200DT which I've had since 1986 (brand new). I did purchase the Kioti and it should be delivered this week some time.
The three tractors were the B7610, CK20 and TC24DA all with FEL's. I decided on the CK20 gear version with FEL and Backhoe. Once I get the Kioti and use it for a while I will do a long post on what I think of it.

Steve

 

[OrangeGuy]

In engineering school they taught us to make it better/stronger with less weight/material.

OrangeGuy

 

[To20Chris]

So then the perfect tractor would be exceptionally strong and light as a feather? It would be funny to watch such a tractor try to dig anything! In fact, there is no point in designing out the weight, when the weight is a benefit. The optimum design is one that is fit for its intended purpose. The light weight tractors are optimized for a particular purpose, it just happens to be a different one than the heavier tractors. Failure to recognize that will result in people buying the wrong kind of tractor, and being disappointed.

 

[DK35vince]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( In engineering school they taught us to make it better/stronger with less weight/material. )</font>

Gee !!
So I guess loading my tires for added stability and traction was a bad /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Chris, I think you made an excellent counterpoint.

Weight does not equal strength, nor does mass equal strength. Weight is not good for tasks like mowing the lawn, however weight is good when using ground engaging equipment. Weight should not be confused with ballast. Ballast is weight in a specific place designed to enhance balance.

Personally I like light tractors, but that is because of the way I use my tractors. I think your post very eloquently states that each of us has our own uses for our own machines, and each must decide which type of machine is best for our own uses.

 

[RICHARDG]

Well,,,I thank thats great that you have nothing better to do than do self imposed tests on tractors,,,,free sounds like,,hum,,,,,you do a self other by it self comparision with money?????those chines jinmas cost half as much,,,,,thingy

 

[sneaky_pete]

RichardG, maybe if you sold a few commas you could afford to buy a real, er I mean a big three tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously - I for one am glad to have some input from the other brands, but your posts would be much easier to read and appreciate without all the extra punctuation. Just a suggestion, take it or leave it.

Pete

 

[shoppintractors]

Regarding the B7800/B2910 and the CK25/30... <font color="blue"> They are bascially the same size, same tire size, </font>

I need some clarification on the tire sizes. My research shows...

Ag tires-
CK25/30----front 7-14 rear 11.2-24
B2910------front 7-12 rear 12.4-16

Industrial tires
CK25/30-----front 25x8.50-14 rear 15-19.5
B2910 -----?????

Turf Tires
CK25/30-----front 27x8.50-15 rear 41x14.00-20
B2910------front 24x8.50-14 rear 13.6x16

The turf tires and the ag tires are larger on the CK25/30. Are the industrials the same size on the B2910 as the CK25/30?

Don

 

[To20Chris]

I really don't have the slightest idea what you meant to say.

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( For you CK20 owners out there, that is an unusual machine as far as size and weight go. Not sure where I'd place it compartively, but it looks like a B2410 sized machine (and I'll bet it weighs a lot more though I don't have the spec in front of me).)</font>
A very good post Doug. I'm glad you got a chance to really see and try out the Kioties and Kubotas. Gives you so much better insight. As far as I could tell when shopping, the CK20 was really close with B7510/7610, although, as you say, much heavier which helped me go for the Kioti as I wanted the extra weight and lift capacity.
I didn't like the quarter-inching valve at all because it wouldn't put the hitch exactly where I wanted it, but in 1/4" increments that didn't always do what I wanted. I much prefer the true position control of the Kioti and any other tractor that has it.
As for your observations on the fit and finish, the Kioties really are nicely put together. I'm glad you could see that as a lot of people don't believe me when I say it's excellent.
After having tried out the CK30 and finding it pretty fantastic, I'm sorry it won't work for you because I could sure enjoy it, but if it's just too big and heavy for you, it just is. Thank you for the post. John

 

[DannyD]

Looked at the Kioti website, it basically stinks, they dont even have a photo of the tractor in full dress that you can see and point to all the features. Who would buy a tractor without first checking out the website for content..............joke there guys, dont blow a gasket.

Seriously, I like the looks of the kioti, but I do wish they had more photos. If I had known about them previous to buying the first time, I might have given them a serious look over.

 

[shoppintractors]

If you look under the 'attachments' then click on the KL130(FEL) page at www.kioti.com you'll see pictures of the CK30.

If you go HERE you'll see a good overhead shot of the CK30.

And if you stay right here at TBN and walk over to the Kioti forum you'll find many pictures that have been posted.

Now go outside the box and expand your horizons..... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif(I'm kidding)

Don

 

[RICHARDG]

Well,,,after reading it,,,I'm not sure either,,,but it wasn't good,I'm sure,,,,,,,,,,--------,,,,,,,,thats for you pete,,,, thingy

 

[Jim_in_Omaha]

I have a Kioti LK3054 that I bought used with around 41 hours. I had a tapping in the engine while under load too. Sometimes it was very loud. I would have to throttle back some to find a happy spot. Now that it has about 120 hours it has gotten smoother and quieter under load. Runs considerably easier at PTO speeds.

The previous owner had all 4 tires filled. So with the loader its a very heavy tractor. I use 4wd when mowing because of the hills. When I would turn in 2wd it would really tear up the turf. I wish I could take off about 1500lbs for mowing and put it back on for everything else..

Maybe I should buy a set of turfs for summer use..

thx
Jim

 

[DannyD]

OK. slap dipstick, wake him up, then show him how to use the forum and the internet. You would think I would know this, I spend more time here than in front the tube, but not as much as in the seat of the bota.

thanks