Compact Tractor Horsepower Comparisons

[AndyMA]

Just glad I got a New Holland TN series. One that the Nebraska test show to be consistently underspeced. Actually even though PTO hp is important, what is more important is how that hp is delivered. On my TN I have a 36% torque reserve that comes in when demanded and ads quite a bit more power.

Andy

 

[john_bud]

Are you implying dishonest marketing here? Blasphemy There is no way that JD would do that test without knowing EXACTLY what it would do, and I would bet money those two were hand-picked for a purpose.

I also wonder if the fuel curves were untouched ....

After all, a quick turn of the wrist and you can unleash a torrent of extra hp. (or stop it....)

Not to say that was done, I'm just wondering.

jb

 

[ozzie tractor]

can anyone tell me if either manufacturer quoted PTO HP for these 2 models.

 

[Croomrider]

I looked it up and the JD spec'ed PTO HP at 45 while Kubota spec'ed the 5030 at 42.5 IIRC. They were never claimed to be the same in the brochures.

 

[JD3520]

First, I am a JD owner as you can see. Second, you buy a tractor to do a job; not test hp rating against other tractors. It either will or will not do the job. If brand x produced "upper 30's hp" (39 hp) on a dyno, I doubt I would notice the difference at the PTO. Torque yes, hp no. Is the dyno measuring wheel hp as a vehicle dyno does or is it a special dyno to measure PTO hp?

A New Holland ad did the same thing a few months ago; stacked the deck against a Kubota tractor.

I was raised to believe JD was the standard by which all others were measured. Guess Kubota is the new standard.

 

[Turbys_1700]

I also wonder if the fuel curves were untouched ....

After all, a quick turn of the wrist and you can unleash a torrent of extra hp. (or stop it....)

Not to say that was done, I'm just wondering.

jb

I wonder if manufacturers are told they are going to be tested and to furnish a tractor. This would give them the opportunity to "tweak" a unit to out spec their average units. If they ( the Nebraska tests) take units off the floor then this is a mute point. Does anyone know?

 

[Harvster]

Now, I'm new to the tractor world so feel free to correct anything I'm about to say if it is wrong.

Based on some stuff I have seen, the Nebraska tractor tests are primarily for larger ag tractors and do not pertain to the sub 40hp tractors. I also know that a JD brochure for the 2320 has the HP ratings marked with an asterisk which at the bottom of the page says "manufacturer estimate". I imagine this is true for most brands. Seems like it would be relatively easy to agree on a standard test to get some real numbers for the little tractors.

 

[MikePA]

If they ( the Nebraska tests) take units off the floor then this is a mute point. Does anyone know?

Click Here for the Contact page of the test labs. Oh, it's moot point.

 

[OrangeGuy]

I operated a tractor PTO dyno many times in the past at my Dad's implement dealership. A skilled operator can easily show a 10% difference in HP on the same dyno. That operator would probably output the favored tractor with the higher HP and the contender with the lower HP. This marketing ploy is as old as the hills.

OrangeGuy

 

[turbo36]

I operated a tractor PTO dyno many times in the past at my Dad's implement dealership. A skilled operator can easily show a 10% difference in HP on the same dyno. That operator would probably output the favored tractor with the higher HP and the contender with the lower HP. This marketing ploy is as old as the hills.

OrangeGuy

How is this done? The dyno tests thaat I have witnessed lokked pretty fool proof.

 

[dgl24087]

Were both tractors operated at each mfg.'s recommended PTO RPM?

 

[whitetiger]

I operated a tractor PTO dyno many times in the past at my Dad's implement dealership. A skilled operator can easily show a 10% difference in HP on the same dyno. That operator would probably output the favored tractor with the higher HP and the contender with the lower HP. This marketing ploy is as old as the hills.

OrangeGuy

It must have been an old dyno because the newer ones are digital read out and it is not possible to fudge readings with out using a screw driver on the calabration screw. By turning the cal screw in you can show a TC 25 putting out 200 HP.

 

[whitetiger]

I was raised to believe JD was the standard by which all others were measured. [/quote]

And the moon is blue cheese.

 

[KICK]

the concept of horsepower is Disingenuous, to say the least.

you can have 2 different engines with the same horsepower rating but not nearly the same performance

just use the formula for HP as an example. HP= ( torque x rpm)/5252

you can see that an engine will produce the same amount of HP depending on its torque outoput and rpm . for instance an engine that produces
50 lbs ft of torque at 5000 rpm will have the same horsepower as an engine that produces 100 lbs ft at 2500 rpm.

so hp readings are not good comparitors.


you all can argue all winter about it, its meaningless in the end.

I doubt the dealers would be very impressed by JD if showedp one of their competitors tractors as having more power than their comparable ofering.

 

[AndyMA]

I was raised to believe JD was the standard by which all others were measured.

And the moon is blue cheese.[/quote]

JD Compacts have come around, but the earlies JD Compacts were no comparison to the Kubotas and Fords. JD had Yanmar who made decent compacts, build tractors to JD specs which were substandard.

Andy

 

[whitetiger]

JD Compacts have come around, but the earlies JD Compacts were no comparison to the Kubotas and Fords. JD had Yanmar who made decent compacts, build tractors to JD specs which were substandard.Andy

Ummmm, I was responding to a prior post made by another member about JD being the standard which all others were compaired to. I am very much aware that JD has not set a standard for any thing in the under 40 HP class.

 

[eaglemrpaul]

Kick,
I understand your point, however in this instance we are talking about PTO horsepower at the manufacturers rated PTO engine RPM. 540 RPM is a constant standard of measurement which the printed PTO horsepower statistic represents. Even if different engines require different RPM to achieve it, we use 540 PTO horsepower as a comparative standard / measurement. As you read several of the messages throughout this site HP and or PTO horsepower seams to be a value point among both owners and buyers.
Also, several of the messages on this thread focus on a conspiracy theory. I understand the skepticism. Having an outside source test the numbers would eliminate that. Maybe a company like Consumer Reports will get involved someday. Until then I think it’s important consumers know that manufacturers stated PTO horsepower rating may not be accurate. For the consumer who places this very high on the list during a buying decision, buyer beware. I don’t care what color the tractor is.

 

[swines]

Let's assume that JD didn't cook any of the results, the tractors were setup to show their optimum output, and it was done for some specific (but, to this group unknown) reason; in order to demonstrate JD's product for some reason (again, unknown to this group) at a dealer meeting. It could be just a very simple sales demonstration for the dealers - nothing more.

Why all the cynicism about what was done? You people jump to A LOT of conclusions on very, very little information. My father-in-law worked for Ford Tractors for his entire life at the Ford headquarters (at that time in Troy, MI), and it was common for Ford to purchase a competitor's tractor for both testing, and to show at dealer meetings so that the dealers had a better idea of what they were selling against.

This really isn't anything new, different, sinister, a threat to YOUR favorite brand, or a conspiracy. It falls into the "so what" category. Do you really think that dealers (who dyno numerous tractors) would be fooled by what was being done, and how it was being presented? Wouldn't (or didn't) have any questions? Or do they just drink the green Kool-Aid (as opposed to the orange Kool-Aid passed out at Kubota dealer meetings)? Please - give it a rest.

Lots of opinions, speculation, and innuendo with absolutely NO facts. So many 1's and 0's wasted in a totally useless thread.

 

[OrangeGuy]

"Lots of opinions, speculation, and innuendo with absolutely NO facts. So many 1's and 0's wasted in a totally useless thread."

I might agree with the above statement, except for the fact the original poster has hatched a theory that one competitive tractor tested for HP at a JD forum did not test at its stated HP (allegedly) and consequently this poster is warning all of us not to trust the manufacturers of compact tractors. This is a pretty bold theory based on one tractor tested by a competitor under unknown circumstances.

The original poster states..."Until then I think it’s important consumers know that manufacturers stated PTO horsepower rating may not be accurate. For the consumer who places this very high on the list during a buying decision, buyer beware. I don’t care what color the tractor is."

I believe this is a preposterous theory and has not yet been properly debunked.

OrangeGuy

 

[N80]

This really isn't anything new, different, sinister, a threat to YOUR favorite brand, or a conspiracy. It falls into the "so what" category.

I disagree with this as well. Just because it isn't new or different doesn't mean it isn't wrong or misleading. And there is virtually nothing in the described scenario to lend any serious credibility to the test. And to suggest that its just a little demo just for the sales reps is a bit naive don't you think? What do you think that sales rep is going to do with that info? He's going to tell some smuck like me that if I'm looking at a Deere vs Brand X I'd better buy a Deere because Brand X fudges on their specs and he's seen the proof with his own eyes.

But the greater implication is if the test is true. Then it does impact whatever brand I might have because it means I might have been mislead. And if I bought Brand X to do a job based on specific specs and it won't do that job....then it could be that it won't do the job because the HP spec was bogus.