Colorado wolf reintroduction

[jyoutz]

From the statue:
If passed by Colorado voters in 2022, the initiative would have:

• Required that criminal animal cruelty charges be filed against veterinarians for performing common veterinary medical surgeries
• Made spaying and neutering animals a criminal offense, thereby increasing animal suffering, pet overpopulation, and spreading of disease
• Criminalized safe and common artificial insemination of dogs, horses, and livestock as “****** act with an animal” or **********.

Yep, but never made the ballot and would fail if it did.

 

[stumblinhorse]

Yep, but never made the ballot and would fail if it did.

That is what was predicted for the vote for wolf reintroduction. So Not sure. It had a tremendous amount of backing in the urban areas which can pass anything state wide.

 

[Jstpssng]

Yep, but never made the ballot and would fail if it did.

The problem with this type of referendum is that they will keep trying until it finally gets passed... because people get tired of voting it down.

We passed a referendum a couple of years ago even though it stated right in the question that it went against state statutes. Now people are all POed because the state government " doesn't honor the will of the people."

Most elected officials have taken an oath to follow the state and federal constitutions.

 

[Hay Dude]

No big deal if a wolf kills one of our kids, but wonder what’d happen to wolf reintroduction if one of ‘em attacked one of the elected official’s kids?

 

[jyoutz]

The problem with this type of referendum is that they will keep trying until it finally gets passed... because people get tired of voting it down.

We passed a referendum a couple of years ago even though it stated right in the question that it went against state statutes. Now people are all POed because the state government " doesn't honor the will of the people."

Most elected officials have taken an oath to follow the state and federal constitutions.

You are generally correct, but I’m skeptical that would fly in a Colorado statewide vote. Too many stockyards, ranches, and packing plants there, in addition to all of the horsey people on ranchettes. My opinion of course.

 

[jyoutz]

No big deal if a wolf kills one of our kids, but wonder what’d happen to wolf reintroduction if one of ‘em attacked one of the elected official’s kids?

We have far more lion and bear concerns in the Rocky Mountains. There are lion or bear kills of humans every few years in all of the mountain states. Once again I don’t think the wolf program is worthwhile and wouldn’t do it, but after 20+ years in my region there have been remarkably few issues. People down the road from me have lost colts and goats to lions, and the sheep industry is about defunct due to predation losses from coyotes, lions, and bears. Even eagles take young lambs. Wildlife predators are part of the landscape in the Rockies.

 

[ponytug]

It is funny, but around here mountain lions are almost exclusively predators on deer. There apparently is a window of a few months when two year old males get kicked out of mom's den/pack, when they have to carve out their own hunting territory somewhere and some of them do eat other animals, but talking to my large scale ranching neighbors, nobody has been able to recall losing a calf to a mountain lion. We have two dens pretty close to here (less than a mile), and we haven't ever lost a calf to a mountain lion, or coyote for that matter.

Around here, I would love to see grizzly bears reintroduced as the feral pigs have no apex predator, and grizzly apparently used to hunt them. The elk that have been reintroduced locally are like smoke, and vanish about as soon as they sense humans. We have seen them occasionally, but I have neighbors that have never seen one in their lifetimes. A neighboring ranch had some running with their Herefords, and thought that they would do the elk a favor, and moved the cows to a different area of the ranch. The elk got spooked by the lack of cattle, and left. Last that I heard it has been more than twenty years and they still haven't returned. My takeaway is that wildlife management isn't simple...

All the best,

Peter

 

[jyoutz]

It is funny, but around here mountain lions are almost exclusively predators on deer. There apparently is a window of a few months when two year old males get kicked out of mom's den/pack, when they have to carve out their own hunting territory somewhere and some of them do eat other animals, but talking to my large scale ranching neighbors, nobody has been able to recall losing a calf to a mountain lion. We have two dens pretty close to here (less than a mile), and we haven't ever lost a calf to a mountain lion, or coyote for that matter.

Around here, I would love to see grizzly bears reintroduced as the feral pigs have no apex predator, and grizzly apparently used to hunt them. The elk that have been reintroduced locally are like smoke, and vanish about as soon as they sense humans. We have seen them occasionally, but I have neighbors that have never seen one in their lifetimes. A neighboring ranch had some running with their Herefords, and thought that they would do the elk a favor, and moved the cows to a different area of the ranch. The elk got spooked by the lack of cattle, and left. Last that I heard it has been more than twenty years and they still haven't returned. My takeaway is that wildlife management isn't simple...

All the best,

Peter

In NM a few years ago, a man was killed by a lion while sitting in his backyard hot tub. Last summer a man in Arizona was killed by a bear while drinking coffee on his back patio.

 

[ponytug]

In NM a few years ago, a man was killed by a lion while sitting in his backyard hot tub. Last summer a man in Arizona was killed by a bear while drinking coffee on his back patio.

I saw those incidents and they did serve to remind me to be careful when I'm outside as it is their turf. We have lost a few runners over the years here in California.

All the best,

Peter

 

[jyoutz]

I saw those incidents and they did serve to remind me to be careful when I'm outside as it is their turf. We have lost a few runners over the years here in California.

All the best,

Peter

I used to work on the Fort Apache Indian Reservation. When we were driving in the woods, if we saw a bear the Apaches would stop the truck, jump out and chase the bear till they treed it. They said that kept the bears afraid of people.

 

[stumblinhorse]

Around me there is already more wolf kills than lions. There was already 20 cattle/4 dog/3 sheep killed within 30 miles of me, before the release. The neighbor 2 properties down lost a llama to a lion. That is the only lion attack I have heard of around here. But we have so so many deer and antelope, the lions don’t need to risk killing livestock. And we have a lot of lions. They do well here.

 

[Rockbadchild]

A pretty interesting podcast, lots of miss conception debunked in there

 

[etpm]

A pretty interesting podcast, lots of miss conception debunked in there

I had to quit watching Joe Rogan. He just spouted too much BS that was easily checked and proved false. He thinks his opinion is fact in too many cases.
Eric

 

[Rockbadchild]

I had to quit watching Joe Rogan. He just spouted too much BS that was easily checked and proved false. He thinks his opinion is fact in too many cases.
Eric

I havent been watching as much anymore, i’ve been watching lot more of Shawn Ryan show then him lately but Joe still put up some interesting one here and there she didn’t let him get away with much in this one …

 

[oosik]

My 80 acres is very remote. Mile off the county road - twelve miles from our small college town. It's classified as Open Range land.

We have all the big, normal carnivores here. Coyote, wolf, black bear and cougar. Of course, skunk, badger, racoon and porcupine also. I can't let Brownie( Cocker Spaniel) out on his own. I'm always with him when outside. Brownie is an innocent.

Twenty two years ago I got two Blue Healers. Good friend and his wife were going back to the Philippines. These two dogs would not fare well there.

These dogs DID NOT like coming in the house. They would lay out on the porch in the winters worse snow storm and not mind it one bit.

They developed a rather unique "habit". At night they would range out and hunt coyotes. One night - terrible howling, barking, growling in the yard. Got up and looked out the kitchen window. Not about to charge out there with all this goings on and not seeing it first.

There in plain view of the yard light. These two had drug a coyote back into the yard.
They proceeded to kill the coyote and began to eat its innards.

Spicy German hot dogs saved the day. A favorite snack of the two healers. Got the healers off the coyote and the coyote into the bucket of the tractor. Next day I burned the coyote down to mere ash.

Lord know how much of this went on. Out where we could not see or hear.

 

[scootr]

I had a german shepard that was hell on coyotes in the desert. One night I finally got out of bed to investigate after an hour of listening to the absolute chaos going on outside. When I shined a light to my surprise she was barreling around a boulder barking and snapping at two poor coyotes stuck on top of the rock.

 

[lincmercguy]

They shoild have been introduced in the counties that voted for it instead of the counties that voted against it.

 

[walhondingMF]

I live rural, have always lived rural, and will always live rural. I understand the argument, about many issues actually, about the masses in the urban areas making decisions for us in the country. I also have to remember this though. A good deal of our country is public land, which means the people in the city are owners of that land as well. Because the West has so much public land, the public landowner vs private landowner is far more common in the western part of the country.
Diane Boyd is published and her books are great reads if you like he topic. She's probably considered the national expert on wolves and has a fantastic perspective on the issue. Her background started in Wisconsin and Minnesota. Wolves were never completely eradicated from some of this area. She became a bit of an expert on not so much dealing with the wolves, but at dealing with people when it came to wolves.
If you don't want to listen to her on rogan, look into the meateater podcast. She has been on there a few times.

 

[deserteagle71]

A good deal of our country is public land, which means the people in the city are owners of that land as well.

But the city dwellers are "absentee" owners. And they make ill-informed, emotion-based instead of fact based, decisions about the land surrounding my property (BLM land on two sides) that doesn't affect them at all. But it sure affects me!

 

[walhondingMF]

But the city dwellers are "absentee" owners. And they make ill-informed, emotion-based instead of fact based, decisions about the land surrounding my property (BLM land on two sides) that doesn't affect them at all. But it sure affects me!

Great point that I do not disagree with. However, is it possible that BLM land, which you have access to could be privately owned by someone who would not give you access to it? Public land is a unique thing to our country, and one of the best things about it. Unfortunately, we need the money from those in the city to help afford it.