College drop out blues

[Redbug]

For what it's worth...Out where I work over the years, I have seen a big difference between ex-military hires with some college and the interns Mom and Dad put thru college. The ex-mils are focused, job oriented, good social skills, and team players. The interns...welllll...

 

[D7E]

I left school and Went self employed at 16 , The money was better spent setting up a tree care business i thought.

 

[kyspartan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigarms
By chance if your question is for your nephew, I'd suggest staying out of your sisters/brothers/in laws "business" unless they ask you directly for advice.

For your own children, IMO the military is never a bad option, just as long as that's what the person enlisting wants to do.

X'2 Good advice


X 3 airing family luandry in public can be devastating to the family members involved, besides who wants advice from a town crier

 

[quackaddict]

They're all better men and women than me.

yup...

 

[Sigarms]

Enlisting in the military because you do not know what you want to do is just as mistaken as going to college because you think you should stay in school but have no idea what you want to do. A young person should not make such huge life altering decisions based on not knowing what they want to do.

Sorry, I disagree. The military can give structure to your life and give you a reason to want to do and try something (added the fact that food, housing and medical is taken care of for you). The fact is in both the military and civilian world, some people are lazy and don't want to be good at anything. The opposite holds true as well as far as wanting to excel.

For what it's worth...Out where I work over the years, I have seen a big difference between ex-military hires with some college and the interns Mom and Dad put thru college. The ex-mils are focused, job oriented, good social skills, and team players. The interns...welllll...

I don't think your comparing apples to apples.

Took me some time to realize that the military is just like the civilian world in that "people are people" in how they carry themselves in life. The difference being in the military some stupid mistakes can cost people their lives very easy. Leadership is no different. It's not the title or the rank, but the person.

Obviously you haven't seen some of the folks in the Army lately. I'm pretty sure you just need a pulse and to over 18.

Im certain it is far easier for a teenager in America to enter a college than the military. Talk about some sorry standards. You have the money, you go to college.

I find it funny how everyone thinks that going to college is the answer.

1. If you're grades are good in high school and you want a professional career and have an idea of what you want to do, go to college. Don't go to college to waste your time and money to "find yourself".

2. Enlist in the military.

3. Find a job that holds your interest and don't do it only for the minimum wage.

4. Go to a trade school.

Funny, going to a trade school never seems to be on anyones high list, but in todays society, IMO that is where the real money is at. People are forgetting how to build things, and the general population will pay for something they must have, particularly plumbing. Fact is though that getting your hands dirty doesn't seem to be the American dream anymore and we all have to be wearing a tie and suit and carry a briefcase to make any money.

Guess what it all comes down to is doing whatever makes you happy.

I do know however that when I got out of high school, my parents gave me three options.

1. Find a job and pay rent to stay at home if I'd like, but I live there by their rules.
2. Enlist in the military.
3. Go to college, but I would have to take out school loans and maintain good grades. My parents would help me finanically, but would not cover the majority of the costs.

One option not given to me was to stay at home and not work

 

[dave1949]

Sigarms:
One option not given to me was to stay at home and not work

You hit the nail on the head very concisely with this statement. Kids should be made to go out and at least begin to earn their way. The experience is worth more than the the wages.

I also think passing up trade school for many is a mistake. They don't know how rotten cubicle life can be, we don't call folks that we share a cubicle with 'cellmates' for nothing Kids really don't have the experience to form a perspective on these issues. Hence, the old 'If I knew now what I didn't know then' saying.

Military or not, and the results, are about the person IMO. Some people need the order and structure it provides. It can be the best thing to happen to them and enables their success. From what I have seen, the miltary can be pretty good at making you suceed inspite of yourself. Others will find that to be more like a mental straightjacket, and I don't think they fit into military life well enough to make a career out of it. They can still benefit from spending 3-4 years in the service I think. It's really sad to see a Captain or Major run up against the 'up or out' wall.

Sometimes we figure out what we do like by first figuring out what we don't like.
Dave.

 

[mjarrels]

My son worked the first year out of High School then went to the local 2 year college under a transfer program. He is now a Junior at James Madison University on track to be a Naval Officer and hopefully a Navy Pilot. He watched friends flip burgers, he runs the local go cart track and has a 35 year old loser working for him so he sees the light! I'm a retired Navy Chief so he has been a Navy brat all his life.

mark

 

[Sigarms]

Kids should be made to go out and at least begin to earn their way. The experience is worth more than the the wages.

I agree 100%, however IMO sometimes it is the parents fault for failing to teach this to children at a young age, and then when those children become young adults expecting to "go out on their own", they are set up for failure.

My wife and I took a couple of child rearing classes. Funny, I thought it would of been some "liberal feel good never wrong" type of mumbo jumbo, but I actually found it very worthwhile and interesting. God forbid we teach children the value of working for money at a very young age and let them learn the mistakes they can make when they are children still under care. I actually found it refreshing when people who hold degrees in child pyschology tell you that in todays world, most children can be spoiled very easy, never being held accountable for their actions. Also found it amazing why I learned being a drill instructor doesn't always work as well.

 

[Knotbored]

Well now I don't think college is the only choice for anyone too imature to handle it, but I also don't believe manual jobs will be as available as the past couple of decades, and desk jobs will go to the best trained, even if they aren't the most skilled.
I think anyone living at home should be obligated to spend 40 hours or more either working, schooling or volenteering, and another 20 at home cleaning and maintenance of the house. If he can't get a paying job then send him off to the hospitaal to volenteer (or to some other comunity organization.) The worst possible thing would be to allow him to lay around and party and get a free ride if he is capable of work.

 

[Sigarms]

The worst possible thing would be to allow him to lay around and party and get a free ride if he is capable of work.

Well, perhaps if he's lucky, he can collect. LMAO

 

[sailorman]

I taught a 9 th grade student who announced to me and anyone else who would listen that he was quiting school and joining the military. He was old enough having failed many times. "Why ? ", I asked. He replied, " Because I'm tired of everyone tellin' me what to do". I had a nice private chuckle.

 

[MossRoad]

Enlisting in the military because you do not know what you want to do is just as mistaken as going to college because you think you should stay in school but have no idea what you want to do. A young person should not make such huge life altering decisions based on not knowing what they want to do.

Sorry, I disagree.

You think someone that does not know what they want to do should enlist in the military or go to college?

 

[Sigarms]

You think someone that does not know what they want to do should enlist in the military or go to college?

If they don't know what they want to do, they should not waste their parents money and go to college for a potential bogus degree with a medicore GPA.

However, as mentioned, the military will at least provide structure AND dicipline.

Fact is, some children don't have the advantage of having parents who have money that can support them while they try to "figure out" what they want to do.

Another fact is that there a boneheads/idiots in life who will never amount to anything no matter what you do for them. The military has the same chance of getting those boneheads/idiots as well as colleges and other places in civilian life, however, if the person has a head on their shoulder, the military gives them the best chance of making something of themselves, particularly if they have nothing.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with mandatory military service. Perhaps it would give everyone a different perspective.

 

[dave1949]

If they don't know what they want to do, they should not waste their parents money and go to college for a potential bogus degree with a medicore GPA.

However, as mentioned, the military will at least provide structure AND dicipline.

Fact is, some children don't have the advantage of having parents who have money that can support them while they try to "figure out" what they want to do.

Another fact is that there a boneheads/idiots in life who will never amount to anything no matter what you do for them. The military has the same chance of getting those boneheads/idiots as well as colleges and other places in civilian life, however, if the person has a head on their shoulder, the military gives them the best chance of making something of themselves, particularly if they have nothing.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with mandatory military service. Perhaps it would give everyone a different perspective.

Good points Sigarms.

I think mandatory service is an idea with merit, but I wouldn't mess up the military by injecting millions of folks into it that really don't want to be there. On the other hand, we seem to be developing a professional military 'class' which probably isn't totally good either.

There are other worthwhile ways young people can be of service to the country that may also promote their personal growth. I think the goal would be to make the service truly useful and challenging enough that a sense of purpose can be derived.

The funding of any type of mandatory service would be a problem. If the service produces something of real value, then the public/private sector issues would be huge. If nothing of real value is produced, then the perception is likely to be that it is a waste of time.

It's a conundrum
Dave.

 

[NuBota]

This is a good topic - my oldest boy (20 yo) is about to start his last semester of jr. college (should get AA degree by summer). He got a scholarship, works part-time (has since he was 16), pays his car pmt and insurance, etc. But he is still waffling about what he wants to do and is talking about "taking a year off after he gets his AA" to just work and make money. The retail store he works at just offered him a mgmnt position. So, I am struggling how to advise him here. We told him if he works full time, he will pay rent and need to be out by 22.

I agree with Sigarms on just about everything he said. I believe the main thing to get ahead in life is a strong work ethic and personal responsibility. College does nothing for you if those traits don't already exist.

I am a college drop out myself, but have a successful career. I went to jr. college instead of my sr. year of HS - working full time flipping burgers. Had every intention of going to college (engineering) and was actually a candidate for the Navy Academy. But when I turned 18, the burger joint offered me a asst. management position. I started making good money (in my mind) and bought a house. There went college. By 19 I was a store manager - which in those days was unheard of at my age. So I am thinking at this rate I will be a corp exec by the time I'm 30 Of course, then the real world hit - job was rough, advancement slowed, got married and had kids by 23. Jumped to different companies to try to get some upward mobility - finally realized that although I could run a business very well - I was not cut out for upper management in big corporations. Went in debt on a computer, learned it inside and out and after 100 job applications finally got an IT job. Ten years later I am an independent consultant making good money.

The problem is my kids know this story - so always get "well you did it". I cannot convey to them how hard the wife and I struggled early on and the sacrifices we made. And, of course, I see my oldest about to follow the same path - except he has no where near the drive and tenacity I had. So it is about to get interesting....

The thing I can't get - is why many of these young people don't WANT to strike out on their own. I had a great home growing up and no pressure form my folks to leave - but I wanted to be my own man. Striking out so early and struggling was tough - but the thought of bailing and going home was never acceptable to me - even though it was always an option.

 

[Sigarms]

The retail store he works at just offered him a mgmnt position. So, I am struggling how to advise him here.

Tell him to finish his degree.

I was in the same boat while on summer break in my senior year of college working for a restaurant/hotel in my area. Although the work had nothing to do with my degree, you made good money if you were a good waiter at a good restaurant. The owner and I became "friends" in the three years while I worked there on college breaks, and I worked my way up supervising people and handling money. He (the owner) made me an offer because he needed help my last year there (and at that time, the salary he was offering was probably more than I could of made after I got my degree).

I told him no. No regrets.

Here is the thing...

If you're a good worker, show up on time, don't drink on the job, and do what your told to do without having to be supervised every second of the day, you WILL succeed no matter what job you have.

Your son sounds responsible. I have no doubt that after he graduates, the chance is that position may still be there. If it isn't, no big deal because sooner or later, he will "fall into" the same position again somewhere else working his way up.

I'm in my mid 40's now. Here is a little secret I've found out. Good help is hard to find

Problem is, everyone wants to start at an executive pay level for an entry level position.

 

[riptides]

This whole thread comes down to school, job, or military.

Another option is to hitch a ride and go volunteer somewhere in a less fortunate part of the world.

That will make a real person out of anyone in a hurry, and perhaps enlighten them in ways never before imagined.

 

[Knotbored]

I am retired and thank God I don't face most of the obstacles the youngsters now face. Manual labor and desk jobs used to be available to anyone ambitious enough to show ambition, but now kids can't even get an aplication form without a degree and 10 years experience. The only exceptions a couple years ago were the building trades, where most laborers either couldn't, wouldn't work or spoke broken English, and now even those jobs have disapeared.
My advise is to get the most training (college or trade school) just to be able to obtain a job aplication. Its now unlikely anyone will remain in the same trade or skill for a lifetime since technology is changing so quickly and so much labor is going overseas. Training no longer stops with that degree (if it ever did)

 

[Redbug]

You are right, Knot. Times have changed and it is a different world as to when we were younger. I understand about kids staying home longer with the economy and jobs as they are. However, I still feel kids nowadays are not as ambitious as the previous generations...Maybe that's an older man's observation syndrome.

Food for thought...

In this country, there is a 3 generation money cycle.
1st generation makes money.
2nd generation maintains the capital.
3rd generation spends the money.

This also helps explain the cycles of growth and depressions.

1st generation had the memory of poverty, (Great Depression, Immigration, a couple of World Wars), and works hard.

2nd generation has the spoken memory of poverty by living with their parents. This generation has progressed financially in the work place and they provide a better life for their children that they themselves had.

3rd generation does not have a memory of poverty and thinks they will always have money, so they spend.

 

[Sigarms]

Manual labor and desk jobs used to be available to anyone ambitious enough to show ambition, but now kids can't even get an aplication form without a degree and 10 years experience.

Sorry, I have to disagree.

When I left my career of 15 years last year to change jobs without having anything lined up, guess what I did?

I looked for work outside of what I knew just to keep busy.

Unemployment office was a waste of time and a joke, but guess what, I found work.

If you really want to work, you can. The question is, are you willing to take whatever is avialable or do you think that you're to good to take the job?

This whole thread comes down to school, job, or military.

As an adult I've found that if you don't have a paycheck coming in, your expectations of what kind of life you're going to live better be adjusted accordingly, unless you're independently wealthy.