PCABE5
Platinum Member
I think your seeing the difference between ECU controlled preheat and the older timer circuit on the MT225.
Cold Weather Pre-heat and other questions
- Thread starter Texasmark
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Interesting little chart. Going to time my XR3135 to see if it works the same way.
Underdog57
Veteran Member
My 2013 pre-emission Engine , The plugs are on a timer, doesn't matter what the temperature is. I don't know how long, guess I should time it sometime! 
I would strongly suggest putting an inline coolant heater in, cheap & easy install. It makes a big difference, today it was 15* and mine was plugged in for 4 hrs. and started so easy. I have a timer come on at 8 am and off at noon. If I think I will use the tractor the next day I plug it in the night before.
I would strongly suggest putting an inline coolant heater in, cheap & easy install. It makes a big difference, today it was 15* and mine was plugged in for 4 hrs. and started so easy. I have a timer come on at 8 am and off at noon. If I think I will use the tractor the next day I plug it in the night before.
Avenger
Veteran Member
I'm guessing that North Texas doesnt get cold.
Now before you flame me, I know what your going to say: "It does too! the lows are below freezing!"
To a diesel, thats not cold. Dipping blow freezing for a few hours, or staying at 30-35F for the day, is simply not cold. It might feel cold to you, but to a healthy diesel engine, that's not cold.
The ECU checks the engine temp before startup to determine how long to keep the glow plugs on for. The colder the engine, the longer the glow plugs need to stay on. The longer, obviously, the warmer. But how warm does it really need to be inside that combustion chamber? Not very, but warm enough. And the ECU expects that you will command the engine to start RIGHT as the glow plug light goes out.
I experienced a cold start recently (before the recent engine heater install). It was cold out, like 12*F. I turned the key warming the glow plugs, while I waited, I pushed in the clutch and locked it, and then realized I forgot a new roll of paper towels I use to check the engine oil. (I typically keep a roll of paper towels inside the cab for checking the oil). I ran into the garage and grabbed a roll, checked the oil, reached in and cranked the key. But by that time, the glow plugs shut off and the combustion chambers quickly cooled. When I started it up, it was rough! It took several seconds to smooth out and run normal. I should have let the glow plugs fire again.
When you turn the key, the glow plugs start warming up. The dash goes though its cycle, all lights on, tach runs check, etc. and the light that remains lit is the glow plug light. That cycle takes a few seconds. So a "wink" is probably more like very slow blink. Like a child falling asleep that doesn't want to.
So why not have the ECU run those glow plugs until the combustion chamber is HOT!? Simple, the glow plugs wear. They burn up if left on too long. Story time:
Back on the farm, in my youth, we had old equipment. One tractor we had, had an old push button on the dash for the glow plugs. I was taught the startup sequence: Check oil, make sure it's in neutral (no safety switches though), push in clutch, hold glow plug button down for a 30 count, turn key. But when that button died, my grandpa made an alligator clip for the battery, which was located next to the seat. New startup sequence: check oil, neutral, place alligator clip on batter terminal, wait for 30, turn key... forget to unhook alligator clip.
We would usually remember several minutes after startup, curse at ourselves (grandpa was the worst), and go about our day. Until we starting having cold starts. Grandpa told me that since we cannot seem to remember to unhook the alligator clip from the battery, we need to replace the glow plugs. We then set out to do this rather big job (we did other things to this tractor too, while it was in the shop, like replace a simple push button on the dash) That's when I saw the difference between a burnt up glow plug and a new one. Big difference. All because the glow plugs ran longer than necessary.
In short, the ECU ensures the glow plugs only run for the correct amount of time assuming you start the tractor (as you should) as soon as the light on the dash goes out.
Now before you flame me, I know what your going to say: "It does too! the lows are below freezing!"
To a diesel, thats not cold. Dipping blow freezing for a few hours, or staying at 30-35F for the day, is simply not cold. It might feel cold to you, but to a healthy diesel engine, that's not cold.
The ECU checks the engine temp before startup to determine how long to keep the glow plugs on for. The colder the engine, the longer the glow plugs need to stay on. The longer, obviously, the warmer. But how warm does it really need to be inside that combustion chamber? Not very, but warm enough. And the ECU expects that you will command the engine to start RIGHT as the glow plug light goes out.
I experienced a cold start recently (before the recent engine heater install). It was cold out, like 12*F. I turned the key warming the glow plugs, while I waited, I pushed in the clutch and locked it, and then realized I forgot a new roll of paper towels I use to check the engine oil. (I typically keep a roll of paper towels inside the cab for checking the oil). I ran into the garage and grabbed a roll, checked the oil, reached in and cranked the key. But by that time, the glow plugs shut off and the combustion chambers quickly cooled. When I started it up, it was rough! It took several seconds to smooth out and run normal. I should have let the glow plugs fire again.
When you turn the key, the glow plugs start warming up. The dash goes though its cycle, all lights on, tach runs check, etc. and the light that remains lit is the glow plug light. That cycle takes a few seconds. So a "wink" is probably more like very slow blink. Like a child falling asleep that doesn't want to.
So why not have the ECU run those glow plugs until the combustion chamber is HOT!? Simple, the glow plugs wear. They burn up if left on too long. Story time:
Back on the farm, in my youth, we had old equipment. One tractor we had, had an old push button on the dash for the glow plugs. I was taught the startup sequence: Check oil, make sure it's in neutral (no safety switches though), push in clutch, hold glow plug button down for a 30 count, turn key. But when that button died, my grandpa made an alligator clip for the battery, which was located next to the seat. New startup sequence: check oil, neutral, place alligator clip on batter terminal, wait for 30, turn key... forget to unhook alligator clip.
We would usually remember several minutes after startup, curse at ourselves (grandpa was the worst), and go about our day. Until we starting having cold starts. Grandpa told me that since we cannot seem to remember to unhook the alligator clip from the battery, we need to replace the glow plugs. We then set out to do this rather big job (we did other things to this tractor too, while it was in the shop, like replace a simple push button on the dash) That's when I saw the difference between a burnt up glow plug and a new one. Big difference. All because the glow plugs ran longer than necessary.
In short, the ECU ensures the glow plugs only run for the correct amount of time assuming you start the tractor (as you should) as soon as the light on the dash goes out.
870m
New member
All things been said im gonna have to find a work around this the hose heater might be doable but would require that the tractor be parked up at the house, to cold now but come spring i will dig into the glo plug circuit and see if mods are possible. I can see this being a long term problem for me, here in New England.
LouNY
Super Star Member
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One issue I have found with these "smart" glow plugs or intake manifold heaters,
when you use a block heater or any type of heater that warms up the water the heaters do not run.
Case in point it wasn't that cold this morning (12F) but the tractor was plugged in for about 4 hours before I started it.
When my tractor is cold the controller will run the intake heater for several seconds before the light clears and you can start it,
it also keeps the heater turned on for several seconds as the tractor runs, it makes for a nice smooth start.
This morning with the water warm it didn't want to run the heater, I cycled the key several times (4 or 5) and she started right up,
but it wasn't the nice smooth run it was a rough run for about 5 seconds before she smoothed out.
I have been telling myself to buy another temp sensor and wire in a double pole switch so I could select the water jacket or ambient temp for the heater control.
when you use a block heater or any type of heater that warms up the water the heaters do not run.
Case in point it wasn't that cold this morning (12F) but the tractor was plugged in for about 4 hours before I started it.
When my tractor is cold the controller will run the intake heater for several seconds before the light clears and you can start it,
it also keeps the heater turned on for several seconds as the tractor runs, it makes for a nice smooth start.
This morning with the water warm it didn't want to run the heater, I cycled the key several times (4 or 5) and she started right up,
but it wasn't the nice smooth run it was a rough run for about 5 seconds before she smoothed out.
I have been telling myself to buy another temp sensor and wire in a double pole switch so I could select the water jacket or ambient temp for the heater control.
nicksdad50
New member
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2020
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- 9
- Tractor
- LS 225 HS
Follow up:
With the heavy snow and cold weather I needed the tractor checked the ccw position and yep it lights the glow plug light (blinking) and after about 10 seconds it stopped. I then rotated to start and she started right up. I haven’t checked and have never read my manual. Tried too but found it useless.
OP
Texasmark
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- Ford: '88 3910 Series II, '80 3600, '65 3000; '07 6530C Branson with FEL, 2020 LS MT225S. Case-IH 395 and 895 with cab. All Diesels
PCABE5 and Avenger, I think you guys nailed it. The dealer says it stays on for about 15 seconds. My S has an ECU and the wink on the dash may be telling me that the Pre Heat circuit has been activated. The click I heard, thinking the Pre Heat relay was de-energizing, may have just been the light with the PH still functioning. So, I tried leaving it in ON or in the CCW position for a few seconds and in rolling the engine over it lit right off.....so I do believe, unlike my previous Branson, it does function differently with the same result. We'll see as this week, like lots of folks it will be cold here for us (down to +13F) about 4 days and that will tell me what I want to know. I'll tell you, I really do like it. I took a beating on price selling a never spent a day out of doors, 4 year old tractor/loader with 400 hrs because of a few quirks it had that annoyed me but the money is spent and I am enjoying the proceeds every day.
OP
Texasmark
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- Ford: '88 3910 Series II, '80 3600, '65 3000; '07 6530C Branson with FEL, 2020 LS MT225S. Case-IH 395 and 895 with cab. All Diesels
Well, N. Texas at my house is 7*F right now and never in my life did I expect to see this especially with "Global Warming" which at least one forecaster said that "this cold snap has nothing to do with GW". Well where is the ice that had to be somewhere to get this kind of blizzard....though GW melted the Poles......
Anyway I was thinking about the Texas Power Grid and wondering how it was holding up to this cold wave and on to thinking about my stored diesel gelling as I filled up with #2 last fall and have PS performance additive, but not the anti-gel additive. In the process of surfing, I came across a NAPA site that answered my question about gelling temp and all.
They also had several items of interest on the site and one included this:
"The modern diesel engine glow plug looks similar to a pencil soldering iron and functions on similar principles. The glow plug is threaded into the cylinder close to the fuel injector port and is powered by a dedicated high-current circuit. When commanded on, such as pre-start warming or when emissions control strategies demand, the glow plug痴 internal heater coils heat the tip to glowing orange to red-hot. While older designs needed 20 to 30 seconds to heat up, modern designs need as little as six seconds."
So with that, and my going out just to check the speed of my pre heat ON-OFF cycle with 30 degree temps in the shop, I noticed that the pre heat coil did stay on longer, so the ECU temp sensor is controlling the glow plug as it should and that there is nothing wrong with my 2020 year model pre heat circuit. So, as the dealer said, for colder temps, just cycle the pre heat several times and she will light right up...like one or two seconds on the starter.
Anyway I was thinking about the Texas Power Grid and wondering how it was holding up to this cold wave and on to thinking about my stored diesel gelling as I filled up with #2 last fall and have PS performance additive, but not the anti-gel additive. In the process of surfing, I came across a NAPA site that answered my question about gelling temp and all.
They also had several items of interest on the site and one included this:
"The modern diesel engine glow plug looks similar to a pencil soldering iron and functions on similar principles. The glow plug is threaded into the cylinder close to the fuel injector port and is powered by a dedicated high-current circuit. When commanded on, such as pre-start warming or when emissions control strategies demand, the glow plug痴 internal heater coils heat the tip to glowing orange to red-hot. While older designs needed 20 to 30 seconds to heat up, modern designs need as little as six seconds."
So with that, and my going out just to check the speed of my pre heat ON-OFF cycle with 30 degree temps in the shop, I noticed that the pre heat coil did stay on longer, so the ECU temp sensor is controlling the glow plug as it should and that there is nothing wrong with my 2020 year model pre heat circuit. So, as the dealer said, for colder temps, just cycle the pre heat several times and she will light right up...like one or two seconds on the starter.
