Cold TC45D
- Thread starter dieselpwr
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kcbarnes
Gold Member
Re: My brand new TC35D...
I don't think it would hurt anything to just remove the hose and drain altogether, just won't be as handy to drain the coolant. I looked at the possibility of branch damage when I installed my valve and may still do something different in the future.Let us know what you do.
Kevin
I don't think it would hurt anything to just remove the hose and drain altogether, just won't be as handy to drain the coolant. I looked at the possibility of branch damage when I installed my valve and may still do something different in the future.Let us know what you do.
Kevin
Re: My brand new TC35D...
Hey kc,
Thanks for the part numbers. Ordered on Wednesday, received on Friday and installed. Works as advertised. Being all thumbs, had to top off the coolant reservoir w/ about a pint. Now, ready for old man winter.
Hey kc,
Thanks for the part numbers. Ordered on Wednesday, received on Friday and installed. Works as advertised. Being all thumbs, had to top off the coolant reservoir w/ about a pint. Now, ready for old man winter.
Fullthrottle
Bronze Member
Re: My brand new TC35D...
Thanks for the part #'s. Fixed mine this morning. Haven't put the hose clamps on yet, but wanted to go ahead and post a picture. Cut off a little more hose between the drain valve and radiator to keep it close to the frame.
Thanks again.
Jeff
Thanks for the part #'s. Fixed mine this morning. Haven't put the hose clamps on yet, but wanted to go ahead and post a picture. Cut off a little more hose between the drain valve and radiator to keep it close to the frame.
Thanks again.
Jeff
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ForceTen
Bronze Member
Re: My brand new TC35D...
Exactly what mine looks like....
There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are very, very few old bold pilots. And they get scarcer every day.
Exactly what mine looks like....
There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are very, very few old bold pilots. And they get scarcer every day.
djradz
Veteran Member
Re: My brand new TC35D...
I have to again post how important doing something to block the flow of coolant through the drain lines is. Plug it, remove it, but do not do nothing. The engine should not be run cool. Even in warm climates, unless the tractor is worked extremely hard, the engine will not warm to "normal" temp, which is mid-range on the gauge. If your in doubt, just clamp or pinch the line from the radiator off about midway between the radiator and drain valve. Use a small c-clamp or something to pinch the hose temporarily. I guarantee that the engine, even only idleing, will raise in temp to mid-range in about ten minutes or so. If your working it, it will be even quicker. New Holland/Ford has had this problem for over 14 years, since the introduction of the xx20 series, but it's still there. Try it, you'll be amazed!
I have to again post how important doing something to block the flow of coolant through the drain lines is. Plug it, remove it, but do not do nothing. The engine should not be run cool. Even in warm climates, unless the tractor is worked extremely hard, the engine will not warm to "normal" temp, which is mid-range on the gauge. If your in doubt, just clamp or pinch the line from the radiator off about midway between the radiator and drain valve. Use a small c-clamp or something to pinch the hose temporarily. I guarantee that the engine, even only idleing, will raise in temp to mid-range in about ten minutes or so. If your working it, it will be even quicker. New Holland/Ford has had this problem for over 14 years, since the introduction of the xx20 series, but it's still there. Try it, you'll be amazed!
Fullthrottle
Bronze Member
Re: My brand new TC35D...
I put the first 35 hrs on my TC45 without the fix. What kind of damage do think this problem caused during these 35 hrs? You would think NH would change their current design on something that is so easy to fix.
I put the first 35 hrs on my TC45 without the fix. What kind of damage do think this problem caused during these 35 hrs? You would think NH would change their current design on something that is so easy to fix.
djradz
Veteran Member
Re: My brand new TC35D...
I put a hundred or more hours on my old 1720 before doing something (cardboard first and then the valve) without any "noticeable" damage. All I know for sure is that anyone who knows anything about engine life and wear states that both diesel and internal combustion engines should be run at normal operating temperatures and the quicker the engine gets to these normal temps, the less wear. I wouldn't worry about the little amount you've already run the engine while cold, but get it corrected as soon as possible.
I put a hundred or more hours on my old 1720 before doing something (cardboard first and then the valve) without any "noticeable" damage. All I know for sure is that anyone who knows anything about engine life and wear states that both diesel and internal combustion engines should be run at normal operating temperatures and the quicker the engine gets to these normal temps, the less wear. I wouldn't worry about the little amount you've already run the engine while cold, but get it corrected as soon as possible.
Fullthrottle
Bronze Member
Re: My brand new TC35D...
Oh Sh*%! Are you guys sure it was ok to install the shut off valve?????? I haven't put but a approx 1.5 hrs on my TC45 since I installed the valve and now old blue is leaking coolant at the block. Anyone else experienced this? See attachment for the exact location (At the 2 o'clock position above the oil filter).
Oh Sh*%! Are you guys sure it was ok to install the shut off valve?????? I haven't put but a approx 1.5 hrs on my TC45 since I installed the valve and now old blue is leaking coolant at the block. Anyone else experienced this? See attachment for the exact location (At the 2 o'clock position above the oil filter).
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ForceTen
Bronze Member
Re: My brand new TC35D...
I haven't had any problems with mine.
Where exactly is the leak coming from? If it is leaking between the block and the fitting that screws into the block, then all you need do is remove the fitting, tape it with teflon tape (or other thread sealing compound) and re-install. If it's at the spring clip holding the hose on, replace it with a band clamp. The pressure on the system would fail the hose before causing damage to either of these two joints.
Steve
There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are very, very few old bold pilots. And they get scarcer every day.
I haven't had any problems with mine.
Where exactly is the leak coming from? If it is leaking between the block and the fitting that screws into the block, then all you need do is remove the fitting, tape it with teflon tape (or other thread sealing compound) and re-install. If it's at the spring clip holding the hose on, replace it with a band clamp. The pressure on the system would fail the hose before causing damage to either of these two joints.
Steve
There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are very, very few old bold pilots. And they get scarcer every day.
jinman
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Re: My brand new TC35D...
Duane, in a previous post you said that stopping the flow in the drain hose would cause an immediate rise in temperature. I'm not doubting your results, but mine didn't prove the same. Last Saturday, I installed a brass needle valve in the line and after letting the tractor idle for 10 minutes, I drove it around awhile and the temperature needle just approached half-way up to the green normal range (maybe 120º). After working the tractor pretty hard pushing some trees, the temperature just barely got into the green. Earlier this year, I had my radiator replaced under warranty due to battery acid damage. I'm beginning to wonder if they may have removed my thermostat or if some trash may have lodged in it. Tt was in the low 70s here in TX last weekend, and the tractor should have heated up a lot more. I'm wondering if anyone else has installed the valve and had little effect? ...and yes, I did make sure it was turned off./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I checked the valve before I installed it also to make sure it was working. I think I need a new thermostat...or I guess my guage could be "out of whack" too./w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif
JimI
Duane, in a previous post you said that stopping the flow in the drain hose would cause an immediate rise in temperature. I'm not doubting your results, but mine didn't prove the same. Last Saturday, I installed a brass needle valve in the line and after letting the tractor idle for 10 minutes, I drove it around awhile and the temperature needle just approached half-way up to the green normal range (maybe 120º). After working the tractor pretty hard pushing some trees, the temperature just barely got into the green. Earlier this year, I had my radiator replaced under warranty due to battery acid damage. I'm beginning to wonder if they may have removed my thermostat or if some trash may have lodged in it. Tt was in the low 70s here in TX last weekend, and the tractor should have heated up a lot more. I'm wondering if anyone else has installed the valve and had little effect? ...and yes, I did make sure it was turned off./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I checked the valve before I installed it also to make sure it was working. I think I need a new thermostat...or I guess my guage could be "out of whack" too./w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif
JimI
djradz
Veteran Member
Re: My brand new TC35D...
Ah, FullThrottle, you've found another nagging problem with the engines used on the Ford 1000 and NH TC series tractors, especially the larger ones. The threaded fitting where the coolant drain line attaches to the block, leaks in many cases. I had the dealer repair my 1720 13 years ago, and it didn't take, and I fixed it twice over the 13 years I owned it. My TC 40D now leaks there as well. It has nothing to do with installing the valve - mine leaked within 2 weeks of getting the tractor, long before I installed the valve.
I think what happens is the block is cast and the fitting made of magnesium or aluminum or something similar and there must be different expansion/contraction characteristics of the metals. As I've said before, you'd think NH would have figured this out long ago, but ... I guess not. Anyway, I haven't taken my 40D in for the 50 hr check (even though I've got about 60 hrs) on it and I'm not sure I'll mention it when I do. Right now I'm considering what I'm going to use to better seal the fitting. Thinking about using something the plumbers up here call "the green stuff". It's a pipe thread sealant that stays a little flexible, which I think might be just what is needed. Not sure about your leak, but mine always leaked the most when the tractor was parked after running for a while. Let us know what you end up doing.
Ah, FullThrottle, you've found another nagging problem with the engines used on the Ford 1000 and NH TC series tractors, especially the larger ones. The threaded fitting where the coolant drain line attaches to the block, leaks in many cases. I had the dealer repair my 1720 13 years ago, and it didn't take, and I fixed it twice over the 13 years I owned it. My TC 40D now leaks there as well. It has nothing to do with installing the valve - mine leaked within 2 weeks of getting the tractor, long before I installed the valve.
I think what happens is the block is cast and the fitting made of magnesium or aluminum or something similar and there must be different expansion/contraction characteristics of the metals. As I've said before, you'd think NH would have figured this out long ago, but ... I guess not. Anyway, I haven't taken my 40D in for the 50 hr check (even though I've got about 60 hrs) on it and I'm not sure I'll mention it when I do. Right now I'm considering what I'm going to use to better seal the fitting. Thinking about using something the plumbers up here call "the green stuff". It's a pipe thread sealant that stays a little flexible, which I think might be just what is needed. Not sure about your leak, but mine always leaked the most when the tractor was parked after running for a while. Let us know what you end up doing.
Anonymous Poster
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Re: My brand new TC35D...
Let me know what the name of the "Green Stuff" is and I might try it also.
Let me know what the name of the "Green Stuff" is and I might try it also.
djradz
Veteran Member
Re: My brand new TC35D...
Jim, not sure what's happening in your case. Hard to believe it won't now heat up. Mine immediately (well as fast as engines heat up - say 10 minutes) goes to mid-range on the guage. You sound pretty sure there's no flow so maybe this suggestion is pointless, but just in case, I have another test. What I did before installing the valve on mine, is to just pinch the hose. I had a little clamp, must be from a lab or hospital, used to pinch hoses, and installed it about halfway between the radiator and drain valve. I think a C-clamp could also work, just don't ruin the hose. If your sure there's no flow, there must be a thermostat or guage problem. To check the guage, I think you could drain a little fluid, open the radiator cap, put in a thermometer, and then run the engine up to whatever temperature, and then see what it reads. ... unless of course your service manual has another way of checking it. Make sure you take out some fluid so as it expands it won't overflow ... unless of course if you don't care it it does. Good luck!
Jim, not sure what's happening in your case. Hard to believe it won't now heat up. Mine immediately (well as fast as engines heat up - say 10 minutes) goes to mid-range on the guage. You sound pretty sure there's no flow so maybe this suggestion is pointless, but just in case, I have another test. What I did before installing the valve on mine, is to just pinch the hose. I had a little clamp, must be from a lab or hospital, used to pinch hoses, and installed it about halfway between the radiator and drain valve. I think a C-clamp could also work, just don't ruin the hose. If your sure there's no flow, there must be a thermostat or guage problem. To check the guage, I think you could drain a little fluid, open the radiator cap, put in a thermometer, and then run the engine up to whatever temperature, and then see what it reads. ... unless of course your service manual has another way of checking it. Make sure you take out some fluid so as it expands it won't overflow ... unless of course if you don't care it it does. Good luck!
jinman
Rest in Peace
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Re: My brand new TC35D...
Duane, I finally solved my cold TC45D mystery and it was just as I suspected, a defective thermostat. My dealer said mine was the first TC model for which he ever needed a replacement thermostat. Go figure! In the photo below, you can clearly see why my thermostat failed. The little metal pin is a check-valve which allows coolant in the reverse direction so you can backfill a cold engine. Mine somehow was defective and was able to lodge itself under the lip of the thermostic vavle causing it to stay open. I don't expect anyone else to ever see this rare problem, but it is so unusual, I had to post a picture. Now I only have to wait three days for my thermostat to arrive and I'll be back in business. My dealer didn't even have the part in stock because he has never needed one. Nuthin' like being the first!/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
JimI<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by jinman on 12/26/01 05:00 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
Duane, I finally solved my cold TC45D mystery and it was just as I suspected, a defective thermostat. My dealer said mine was the first TC model for which he ever needed a replacement thermostat. Go figure! In the photo below, you can clearly see why my thermostat failed. The little metal pin is a check-valve which allows coolant in the reverse direction so you can backfill a cold engine. Mine somehow was defective and was able to lodge itself under the lip of the thermostic vavle causing it to stay open. I don't expect anyone else to ever see this rare problem, but it is so unusual, I had to post a picture. Now I only have to wait three days for my thermostat to arrive and I'll be back in business. My dealer didn't even have the part in stock because he has never needed one. Nuthin' like being the first!/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
JimI<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by jinman on 12/26/01 05:00 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
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Anonymous Poster
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Re: My brand new TC35D...
I hate to burst your bubble but, I've seen this problem six or seven times on different NH equipment that uses the same make of engine as the TCs. Most commonly the mid-size skid steers and the Boomers, don't think I've seen it on the 20 series now that I think about it. I've fixed it three different ways. 1. replace the thermostat, 2. pry the valve open, get the ball free, and reinstall, or 3. pry the ball free and cut it off at the customers request. In either case, haven't had any problems except one that I replaced and it did it again. Can you guess which one I cut off? Point being, it isn't all that uncommon.
I hate to burst your bubble but, I've seen this problem six or seven times on different NH equipment that uses the same make of engine as the TCs. Most commonly the mid-size skid steers and the Boomers, don't think I've seen it on the 20 series now that I think about it. I've fixed it three different ways. 1. replace the thermostat, 2. pry the valve open, get the ball free, and reinstall, or 3. pry the ball free and cut it off at the customers request. In either case, haven't had any problems except one that I replaced and it did it again. Can you guess which one I cut off? Point being, it isn't all that uncommon.
jinman
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Re: My brand new TC35D...
<font color=blue>I hate to burst your bubble but</font color=blue>
It's the kind of problem I can stand having my"bubble burst" over. I guess I should have known that because it didn't happen at my dealer doesn't mean it hasn't happened anywhere else. I thought about removing the little valve needle and putting it back in, but then I think New Holland should buy me a new one and as many more as required untill this engineering snafu is corrected. Thanks for the info. Now at least I know I'm not the only one to have this problem.
Now, since you knew about this, why didn't you mention it before? Huh? /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
JimI
<font color=blue>I hate to burst your bubble but</font color=blue>
It's the kind of problem I can stand having my"bubble burst" over. I guess I should have known that because it didn't happen at my dealer doesn't mean it hasn't happened anywhere else. I thought about removing the little valve needle and putting it back in, but then I think New Holland should buy me a new one and as many more as required untill this engineering snafu is corrected. Thanks for the info. Now at least I know I'm not the only one to have this problem.
Now, since you knew about this, why didn't you mention it before? Huh? /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
JimI
bekxsteins
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Re: My brand new TC35D...
hi i also am a tech in wisconsin have seen this problem many times, we have found that in the skid steers if we cut off the ball and put the thermostat back in verses plugging the hole with a 1/8 rivet then drilling a .040 hole next to the rivet just enough to let the air out this will make the machine run about 15 -20 degress warmer which is nice with a cab heater. it is hard to believe that a small hole like that will let that much water run through Gary
hi i also am a tech in wisconsin have seen this problem many times, we have found that in the skid steers if we cut off the ball and put the thermostat back in verses plugging the hole with a 1/8 rivet then drilling a .040 hole next to the rivet just enough to let the air out this will make the machine run about 15 -20 degress warmer which is nice with a cab heater. it is hard to believe that a small hole like that will let that much water run through Gary
jinman
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Re: My brand new TC35D...
When I got my new thermostat, I put a tiny piece of stainless steel wire around the top of the valve flange (opposite the ball side). This reduced some of the slack in the check valve mechanism (so it couldn't become lodged in the valve) and yet didn't defeat its purpose. There was no interference with the gasket or the mounting flange of the thermostat and the wire is securely in place so it will not become dislogded and go floating about in my cooling system. My tractor now heats up and runs at normal (82º C) temperature. I probably could have done the same with the old one, but I think if New Holland gets this problem reported enough, they will be convinced to redesign or use another thermostat and end this problem. At least, that's what I hope./w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
When I got my new thermostat, I put a tiny piece of stainless steel wire around the top of the valve flange (opposite the ball side). This reduced some of the slack in the check valve mechanism (so it couldn't become lodged in the valve) and yet didn't defeat its purpose. There was no interference with the gasket or the mounting flange of the thermostat and the wire is securely in place so it will not become dislogded and go floating about in my cooling system. My tractor now heats up and runs at normal (82º C) temperature. I probably could have done the same with the old one, but I think if New Holland gets this problem reported enough, they will be convinced to redesign or use another thermostat and end this problem. At least, that's what I hope./w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
jb112454
Silver Member
i've always understood that the clearances in engines were designed around operating temps. hope they took this in consideration when they designed the tc's or they may wear out prematurely. just a thought.
