Cold starting a PT422

/ Cold starting a PT422 #1  

emr

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
39
Location
Neenah, WO
Tractor
Power Trac PT422
We just bought a 422 about two weeks ago and keep it outside. I went to fire it up a couple of days ago and it would not start. Granted, it was - 4 out when I tried so I didn't figure it would start. I tried again yesterday and it started but it was really difficult to get it going. Does anyone have any suggestions for getting them started in the cold?
 
/ Cold starting a PT422 #2  
We just bought a 422 about two weeks ago and keep it outside. I went to fire it up a couple of days ago and it would not start. Granted, it was - 4 out when I tried so I didn't figure it would start. I tried again yesterday and it started but it was really difficult to get it going. Does anyone have any suggestions for getting them started in the cold?

If you do a little searching in this forum you will find a lot of discussion of the poor cold weather performance of the robin engine. It doesn't help that while you are trying to start it, the starter motor also has to deal with spinning the oil pumps with cold oil in them.

suggestions:
1. keep it in the garage (this, however, won't solve the problem, just help)
2. put a magnetic heater on the oil tank
3. put a space heater behind it blowing into the engine compartment for half an hour before you want to start it
 
/ Cold starting a PT422
  • Thread Starter
#3  
I figured the hydraulic system was a big reason why it starts so difficult. Unfortunately we don't have electricity where we plan on storing it so none of those options will work for us.

Does anyone have experience with these in temps around 20 degrees F? That is more of a normal temp that we will be using the loader in.
 
/ Cold starting a PT422 #4  
Guess you are going to have to get creative then. Safest would be a spare (or two) 12 volt batteries with some sort of 12 volt heating pad. Saddly that will probably take over night to warm things up but maybe there is something here. You can use a propane heater, figure a way to keep it sourced a bit from the tractor and its gas fumes, or you could use a Lion batter, set it in the tub and drill a hole in it. Just kidding on the last of course.
 
/ Cold starting a PT422 #5  
You could keep a second battery or try an Optima, but yes, it is a challenge.
Have you thought about insulating where you store it? Or parking it close enough to power to run an extension cord to an oil tank preheater?
Or using a portable generator to preheat the oil tank?

The reality is that cold oil doesn't flow well. It cavitates easily, so even if you get it started, you want to let it idle for awhile until the oil is warm.

Good luck,

Peter
 
/ Cold starting a PT422 #6  
Change your storage location to where there is heat or power. Or is your storage real far from power. Consider building an insulated shed with a propane heater. Sounds extreme,but you will really need it.
 
/ Cold starting a PT422
  • Thread Starter
#7  
The problem is that it's a piece of equipment for work and we can't move or build right now. When it gets cold enough out, we can bring it to our "office" and leave it inside but that's a pain because we need that space to work in.

We used to have problems with diesel engines in our equipment so we got rid of all diesel over the years and replaced them with gas powered equipment. We have not had any issues with the other gas engines.

We used to run to the yard and start a generator and run the block heaters for 2 hours but that got real old in a hurry. We'll make due somehow, I was just hoping someone had a magic trick to share with me but it sounds like that's not the case.
 
/ Cold starting a PT422 #8  
Saddly no. As you know, the PT is directly coupled to the pumps. That poor engine is slinging around the metal of the pumps and the thick oil of the machine.

I do ponder if change to a different weight of oil (0-40) would help.
 
/ Cold starting a PT422
  • Thread Starter
#9  
I'm thinking about switching all of the oil out to Amsoil. A lot of people swear that it makes a difference.
 
/ Cold starting a PT422 #10  
If you have no way to pre-heat it, you are in for a world of hurt.

There is just too much thick hydraulic fluid for that little starter to have to spin the engine through without some assistance, like heat and a booster battery, and the Robin engines are (from everything I've read from owners here) not easy to start in the cold.

I've never had to pre-heat my Kohler and I've started it at -10. It didn't want to, but I made it. I had to use a battery booster plugged into the wall. I could have used jumper cables, too.

This is what I do with my Kohler with no pre-heat. Maybe it will work for you. :)

- Change the engine oil to a 0W30 synthetic (I did this the first oil change. Mobil 1. 15 years :thumbsup:).
- Change the hydraulic oil to 0W40. I've been adding a quart of this to the factory hydraulic oil at every 50 hours filter change, so I've got it diluted with about 15 quarts by now. If it were me, I'd change the entire tank out at once. 10 gallons is 40 quarts. You can get 5 quart jugs at Walmart for $25. So you'd need 8 jugs. That's $200. Ouch, but might be worth it in the long run. Some folks would suggest even 0W50 for a little more wheel power in the summer heat.
- Drive a truck or car back there and put jumper cables on it before you even try to start it. Don't try to start it without doing this at those temps. If you try it without enough battery power, you're just going to get a slow cranking machine and might frost the plugs. Then you're screwed. You'll have to remove the plugs, clean them off, crank the engine with no throttle to clear the cylinders, put the plugs back in, and get the jumper cables anyway, so just start with the jumper cables and save yourself some grief. :laughing:

- Remove the air cleaner.
- Give it a 1 second shot of starting fluid.
- Then full choke and NO throttle.
- Start cranking it. As soon as it fires off the ether, start increasing the throttle until if fires on the gas.
- Once it fires off the gas, stop increasing the throttle and start decreasing the choke.
- Eventually you'll find a happy medium between throttle and choke and it'll keep running.
- If it doesn't fire off the ether, shut off the key, shut off the throttle, open the choke, wait a minute, give it another shot of starting fluid, close the choke and try it again.
- If after the 3rd or 4th try it doesn't fire off of the ether, it isn't going to start. Go home. Make cocoa. :licking:
- If it fires off the ether it should fire off the gas after a couple seconds.
- Never crank the engine for more than 5-6 seconds at a time or you'll eventually do starter damage.
- Once you do get it started, get it up to about 1/3 throttle and remove the jumper cables.
- Replace the air filter.
- Let it run at 1/3 throttle for at least 10 minutes. This will circulate the hydraulic fluid through the PTO and the steering/FEL/aux-PTO pumps and warm it up nicely.
- Keep a listen to the engine. As it warms up, you'll have to decrease the choke.
- Before you take off, cycle the FEL arms and the dump/curl motions a few times full stroke.
- Then go to full throttle and do your chores.
- Don't run it at anything less than full throttle. These engines are meant to run at 3600RPMs and it not only provides the best power to go, it also helps with braking (remember, we have no brakes) and also keeping the engine cool. A lot of folks forget about engine cooling in winter, but after 20-30 minutes of hard plowing, my hydraulic cooler fan will come on even at 0 degrees air temps. So the engine need a constant flow of cooling air and that's provided at 3600RPMs.
 
/ Cold starting a PT422 #11  
I'm thinking about switching all of the oil out to Amsoil. A lot of people swear that it makes a difference.

Don't do it unless you can get it for the same price as a good name brand synthetic. There's just no benefit to it. Snake oil marketing. :cool2:
 
/ Cold starting a PT422
  • Thread Starter
#12  
I have a friend that sells it. We get it for the same cost as any other full synthetic at a regular store. I don't think that Amsoil cures cancer or anything like that, but I do believe that it's a high quality product.
 
/ Cold starting a PT422
  • Thread Starter
#13  
And thanks for the detailed response as to how you start yours. I appreciate it greatly.
 
/ Cold starting a PT422 #14  
Now let's talk pre-heaters....

I was around airplanes for the first 26 years of my life. Many friends parents had airplanes, two were aircraft salesmen and owned FBO's at local airports. I worked for those folks at two different airports for 6 years from high-school through tech school, so I've pre-heated my share of aircraft engines in winter. Aircraft engines are air cooled. So are gasoline powered Power Tracs. So this should be an easy cross-over. :confused3:

Aircraft engines had to be pre-heated in cold weather. If they didn't, they stood a very good chance of trying to start, popping a few times, you'd think it would start, then it would just crank and crank and crank and never start. What would happen is the first time it popped, it condensed a bunch of moisture out of the fuel/air charge and that moisture coated the cold spark plug electrodes, shorting it out, then freezing on the electrode, thus the term, frosting the plugs. The ONLY solution was to pre-heat the engine for quite a while to get it warm enough to melt the frost. Or, you could pay the mechanic to remove the plugs, clean them, and pre-heat the engine and try it again. So, NO ONE would ever try to start their engines without preheating them in very cold weather.

So what's the best way to pre-heat a Power Trac when you have no AC power to run an electric heater, be it forced air or glue on heat pads on the hydraulic tank?

Propane fired 12V blower heater cart and some thermal blankets to hold the heat in.

Engine Preheaters – Flame Engineering

Now, these are expensive, so there should be some sort of less expensive, yet safe, propane alternative, I'd think.

Here's a milkhouse heater with some thermal ducting, but its 110V.
Inexpensive and effective engine preheater pre-heater w/ photos - VAF Forums

Here's a cordless heater that says 5-6 hours of runtime off of a charge and uses propane tanks. Less than $200.
HEATSTAR-F1439 | Acme Tools

Here's another cordless one from Northern Tool for $160. This one looks interesting.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200485166_200485166

I'd think if you put a thermal blanket (fireproof) over the engine/hydraulics and pointed this thing in there, you could get some heat in there. Just be sure not to cook the gas tank on the tractor! :eek:
 
/ Cold starting a PT422 #16  
Up until this spring I had a Robin 22hp in my PT425. I can tell you unless you preheated it, she wouldn't start below 40 f. I used to drape a tarp over it and use a propane fired torpedo heater aimed at the hydraulic tank for a good 20 minutes to warm up the hydraulic oil. A couple years ago Terry sold me an electric heat pad that gets rtv siliconed to the hydraulic tank. It gets very hot fast. That also worked great.
The other day the wind chills were in the single digits. I am happy to say all I did was choke it and she fired right up with no preheating at all. Sure glad I put a Kohler in it.
 
/ Cold starting a PT422 #17  
I went to 10w50 synthetic oil. I don't think it made any difference. If you look up the cold weather flow characteristics of the oil, there is no difference 0/5/10W oil.

I think MossRoad's suggestions of battery cables are about the easiest low tech solution. I'm not a fan of ether, but if you need it, you need it.

All the best,

Peter
 
/ Cold starting a PT422 #18  
if you have a well insulated building and put rigid insulation on the ground for 8' all around the building (can be below grade a little) with no floor insulation in the building, it would not surprise me if that bought you 10 - 20°

Ken
 
/ Cold starting a PT422
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Thanks again everyone for the comments. I appreciate them all.
 
/ Cold starting a PT422 #20  
Speaking of jumper cables, make sure your battery cables are in good shape. Pull the connections off the battery, clean them well. If they are the type that pinches the cable in a clamp with some bolts, remove the bolts and inspect the stranded wire. Mine looked good until I removed that clamp. The stranded wires were green with white powder. I cut off an inch, stripped down to good, clean copper and put new ends on them. It made a noticeable difference in starter cranking power. Corroded cables... yoy!
 

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