Cold start issues, which fluid needs a heater?

[MinnesotaEric]

TSO
Not wanting to add more grief to you but I am concerned that you have introduced air into the injection pump and lines by the opening up of the injection lines.
This air will prevent the pressure from building up enough to open the injectors.
First check if your manual shows how to bleed the injection system. It likely does as you can create the same problem running out of fuel.
Basically, in addition to getting fuel into the filter and up to the banjo bolt, the injection lines need to be loosened at the injectors as the engine cranks. It usually takes two to do this as you close up the line after fuel appears.
Dave M7040

I woke up to no snow to plow at the Mall, so good morning, everybody!

I didn't read where TSO had opened up the lines, only that his loader is in the way.

Like Dave and Skyhook say, don't crack those injector lines open. If you do, you may need to bleed them sort of like manually bleeding brakes, only the manual primer pump is your helper.

After blending the fuel, filling the fuel filter with diesel #1 (or kerosene) getting things warmed up, failing to start, and throwing something (as outlined above), :thumbsup: To manually bleed the lines:

1) Prime the fuel system using the manual hand pump.
2) Identify if there is a bleeder nut of any kind at the end of the injector rail. If not, identify the nut at the very top of the fuel injector that is furthest from the injection pump.

Theory: Just like with brake bleeding, you want to open and close the nut while there is pressure in the system. The pressure is supplied by the manual plunger, which is to say, you will be cracking open the nut to bleed out air, and immediately closing it. Then you will prime the manual plunger, build up pressure and repeat.

3) Open and close with the bleeder nut at the end of the fuel rail, or the nut at the top of the furthest injector from the high pressure fuel pump. Manually, prime and repeat until you see fuel coming out.
4) Move onto the next injector until you have no air and nothing but fresh kerosene or diesel #1 coming out.

5) Reprime the system a final time, and crank the system over and start that thing up.

If it doesn't start, go find a nice book to read and wait for warmer weather.​

Using the engine starter to pressurize the system is more complicated and may require the use of a helper, who will have an opinion, an opinion you will likely not want to hear. To bleed the system using the starter:

1) Hook up a battery booster and turn it onto 10 or 30 amps.
2) Hook up a remote starter on the starter terminals (or carefully explain what you're doing to a helper who will work the ignition switch and work out your signals).
3) With the engine cranking, and all of the things I talked about in my prior post with fuel blending done and priming the fuel filter with diesel #1 (or kerosene) and the system hand primed to pressure, crack open the furthest from the injector pump nut on the top of an injector.

Just like with brake bleeding, you want to close it while there is pressure, which in this case is while the engine is still cranking.

4) Repeat cranking, opening, then closing, then stop cranking, until fuel comes out.
5) Move on to the next injector and repeat. If after several tries, nothing comes out, then try moving on to the next injector.
6) After fresh diesel #1 (or kerosene) is coming out, manually prime the system and start the engine.​

 

[TSO]

Thanks fellas.

Ok, had a heat lamp on the pump overnight, & a charger on the battery. Now there is a torpedo heater pointed at it, and I have a couple errands to run including getting some fresh fuel. When I get back home I will drain the old fuel and replace it with new like Eric mentioned. Then I will try to crank her and see what happens. Eric, you mentioned hand priming it, do you know where I might find the manual primer and what it might look like? Also, I noticed that aside from the four fuel lines that go up to the injectors, there also is an additional line at the injectors that connect the injectors together, then route back to the pump. I don't know if these would be the bleed lines or not, and I'm not sure if I've noticed a bleeder bolt on the injector rail but I will have a look.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Thanks fellas.

Ok, had a heat lamp on the pump overnight, & a charger on the battery. Now there is a torpedo heater pointed at it, and I have a couple errands to run including getting some fresh fuel. When I get back home I will drain the old fuel and replace it with new like Eric mentioned. Then I will try to crank her and see what happens. Eric, you mentioned hand priming it, do you know where I might find the manual primer and what it might look like? Also, I noticed that aside from the four fuel lines that go up to the injectors, there also is an additional line at the injectors that connect the injectors together, then route back to the pump. I don't know if these would be the bleed lines or not, and I'm not sure if I've noticed a bleeder bolt on the injector rail but I will have a look.

The primer should look like a plunger and be on the fuel filter housing. If not, look for some mention of it in your owner's manual.

It is finally snowing, and I must chase off and push snow around at the Mall, so you're on your own, but photos will help others tell you what to do.

 

[Billy Bee]

TSO, Don't want to hijack your thread, but these guys know a lot about gelling. My question is; if I have summer diesel in the tractor , which I do. I plowed snow a month ago and it started after much time on the glow plugs. That was in 30 degree weather, now it has been below zero quite a bit. If there is gelling I don't think it would be good to try start the tractor. Will gel ungel when the weather warms up? This is my first diesel. TX, Bill

 

[Coyote machine]

TSO, Don't want to hijack your thread, but these guys know a lot about gelling. My question is; if I have summer diesel in the tractor , which I do. I plowed snow a month ago and it started after much time on the glow plugs. That was in 30 degree weather, now it has been below zero quite a bit. If there is gelling I don't think it would be good to try start the tractor. Will gel ungel when the weather warms up? This is my first diesel. TX, Bill

You are hijacking this thread; start your own thread.

 

[TSO]

I don't mind...

 

[Dave M7040]

The primer should look like a plunger and be on the fuel filter housing. If not, look for some mention of it in your owner's manual.

It is finally snowing, and I must chase off and push snow around at the Mall, so you're on your own, but photos will help others tell you what to do.

Eric, in a post some time ago TSO mentioned he had an electric fuel pump which would fill the filter up promptly after he dumped the contents.
I also think that the photo posted of the side of the engine showed a selector valve at the filter which had an air position which I would expect is to bleed the system up to the filter when the electric fuel pump is operated.
TSO, There is usually a drain line from the injectors back to some point earlier in the fuel system. It wont be of help to you at this time.
It is the high pressure fittings at the injectors, which should look the same as the ones at the pump, that you have to loosen while cranking.
Dave M7040

 

[buickanddeere]

This seven plus page adventure can and will sooner or later lead to grief. We have several well meaning and mostly knowledgeable persons who are at arms length indirectly trouble shooting and planning repairs. With the person on the tools doing his best but with limited tools and experience.
Load the tractor on a trailer and drop it off at the dealership. Before something gets wrecked, a building burned down and somebody maimed or killed. Ask anybody who works in Emergency Services about how incidents occur.

 

[IslandTractor]

This seven plus page adventure can and will sooner or later lead to grief. We have several well meaning and mostly knowledgeable persons who are at arms length indirectly trouble shooting and planning repairs. With the person on the tools doing his best but with limited tools and experience. Load the tractor on a trailer and drop it off at the dealership. Before something gets wrecked, a building burned down and somebody maimed or killed. Ask anybody who works in Emergency Services about how incidents occur.

You know how to load a disabled tractor on to a trailer? I'll show you. Here, hold my beer....

 

[TSO]

Well guys, good news...

I tried the easiest method first and it worked. Had the heat bulb on the pump last night, then pointed the torpedo at it for a couple hrs this morning. Picked up fresh fuel, drained the tank and the filter. Refilled with with the fresh fuel, a little kerosene and a smidgen of PS. She started right up! No priming other than priming the fuel filter with the ignition.

Ran her for an hour just now clearing snow, and so I have to believe that all the old fuel is out of the system by now.

I guess we'll know next time I go to start it.

Thanks for all the help and replies. Definitely learned some new stuff about the tractor, and I appreciate you lending me your knowledge.

On a side note, this got me thinking (which is usually dangerous) ... Could I take these injectors to a shop and have them upgraded/replaced with bigger injectors, and if so, would that yield more power by itself? Or would additional programming be required?