Cold start issues, which fluid needs a heater?

TSO · Mar 1, 2015

Ok, so do you guys know if the glow plugs are on a fused circuit?

I opened the metal fuel lines off the pump block and they are getting fuel, but still no start. Still sounds like there's no fuel trying to burn/compress, not getting any smoke when she cranks. I'm wondering if the glow plugs maybe aren't working?

Coyote machine · Mar 1, 2015

I'd have to imagine there is a fuse in the glow plug circuit. I suggest finding it, checking it, and going from there.
Then, if no blown fuse, it's time to check the actual injectors. Remove them, mark as to which position they are in, and take them to a diesel shop where they can be pop tested to verify spray pattern, opening pressure, etc.

grm61 · Mar 1, 2015

TSO said:
Ok, so do you guys know if the glow plugs are on a fused circuit?

I opened the metal fuel lines off the pump block and they are getting fuel, but still no start. Still sounds like there's no fuel trying to burn/compress, not getting any smoke when she cranks. I'm wondering if the glow plugs maybe aren't working?

If you were getting fuel under the correct pressure to the injectors, even if the glow plugs weren't working, you should be getting some white smoke out of the exhaust while cranking.
Does your glow plug light come on? Do you here the relay click when you turn the key on?

I think you have a fuel delivery problem...

grm61 · Mar 1, 2015

You may have water and gunk in the line from the block to the in injectors....You could have someone crank it while cracking the lines loose at the injectors maybe purging crap and air out.

I'd be tempted to pull the tank and clean it out..Put good clean fuel in, then bleed it at the injectors, you got that much crud in your filter with 300+ hours on your new rig there has got to be a bunch of crap/water in the bottom of the tank...

Beware of old metal cans as well for fueling your tractor, they tend to be a source of rust , dirt ,and water.

TSO · Mar 1, 2015

The problem I'm running into right now is access. I parked with the loader attached and resting on the ground. With the loader on, it's really difficult to get tool access to the injectors. And, while I could see one of the injectors plugged, I can't imagine all 4!

skyhook · Mar 2, 2015

I'm not suggesting that you do this but,
I've seen people use a propane torch to heat up the fuel lines, a little heat will melt any ice blockage.

Dave M7040 · Mar 2, 2015

I suggests you consider investing in an infrared temperature measuring instrument like the one below from Northern Tool.
Less than 50$ and an invaluable tool around machinery.
Ironton Infrared Thermometer | Vehicle Monitoring| Northern Tool + Equipment
With this tool you could easily measure which glow plug was working or not.
Which cylinder was firing or not.
As a substitute for glow plugs some of us who have had old British tractors without them would gain access to the air intake and direct a heat gun or even hair dryer into it as someone cranks the engine.
All the glow plugs do is to provide a way to heat the air in the cylinder to ease combustion.
With all the problems you have had I really suspect your fuel.
I would have some diesel on hand from a truck stop or from a farmer who buys winter diesel and drain what you have which can be used in warmer times so not wasted.
Drain the tank and refill with the new, bleed as much as you can to bring the new fuel into the system, use your big heater and then start it up.
Dave M7040

TSO · Mar 2, 2015

Ok thanks guys. What's the process for bleeding the system once I drain the fuel?

Coyote machine · Mar 2, 2015

TSO,

It's NOT the glow plugs keeping it from starting, it IS fuel delivery. The glow plugs will help get it started if functioning, BUT without proper delivery of clean, properly atomized fuel you're dead in the winter.
Access may be difficult, however you need to get any injector off the machine for testing. ALL injectors CAN be jammed by debris, rust, whatever got past your filter and by the IP.
You've said no fuel, and I'm as certain as one can be from where I sit that you have little to no fuel getting to your engine. If you test one injector and it's faulty you've found your problem. It's really the easiest way to verify fuel delivery too. Draining your tank is a good idea, but still won't fix a jammed injector or several injectors hampering delivery of fuel to the engine. If you find dirty injectors most often they can be cleaned, and THEN you can drain/clean refill your tank.

TSO · Mar 2, 2015

Ok, so just remove the injector ... What's the process for cleaning them? Do they need to go into a solvent?

buickanddeere · Mar 2, 2015

Injectors are dirt cheap new. Purchase a set , have the pop pressure verified at a local shop then install.

TSO · Mar 2, 2015

buickanddeere said:
Injectors are dirt cheap new. Purchase a set , have the pop pressure verified at a local shop then install.

I'm wondering if this would be covered under warranty ... Only issue is getting the tractor to the dealer

Coyote machine · Mar 2, 2015

Solvent needs to be injected through the injector at very high pressure to clean them on a pop tester machine. This process cleans them out and verifies what pressure they open at, and whether their spray pattern is conical or not; one of the most crucial aspects of injector function. If they fail for pattern or acceptable range of opening pressure, they are most often scrapped.
Do the tests at a diesel repair shop and report back results.
Warranty, possibly, explain to dealer your situation, or take the injector to them for testing.

grm61 · Mar 2, 2015

I know your going in a lot of different directions

If it were mine I would..

#1 Clean out the fuel tank, then refill with good fuel.

#2 Take your filter bowl off, fill it with fuel, and reinstall..on my DK, the petcock on the filter housing has off, on ,and prime..Don't know how your Massey is set up, according to the book on my DK you don't have to fill the bowl, just turn it to prime and crank till it starts, I filled the bowl anyway when I did mine, if I was in your shoes I would fill the bowl... mine fired immediately...if this works, run it on prime till it is running smooth then turn to on.

#3 If no luck with number 2, I would get a helper crack a line loose on a injector while cranking, be careful, put safety glasses on, don't have any open flame nearby, it should spray fuel under pressure out around the fitting...If no fuel, check the plug on the fuel shutoff solenoid, mine is on the front of the IP...You should hear this click on and off with the key...If the solenoid is functioning and you have still don't have fuel under pressure at the injectors, I would suspect IP...or lift pump on your tank if equipped that way, and call the dealer at that point.

If you do have good pressure at the injectors, but no luck or smoke, I would at that point look at the injectors. But I think your going to find your problem is before the injectors.

Good luck:thumbsup:

varmint · Mar 2, 2015

I would just add that a Mr. Funnel is cheap insurance when adding fuel to your tank. Knock on diesel, I use additive, clean fuel, but just regular heating oil, and no issues. But then again, 8 degrees is as cold as we've gotten. In the barn, I would guess it's never below 15 or so. I liked the block heater I installed on my old Kubota- really seemed to make for easy cold starts, and it was a bear otherwise. Oh, synthetic engine oil is a must, IMHO, if you live in cold place.

TSO · Mar 2, 2015

Ok ... please view the attached pics. I checked for fuel, and I'm getting fuel to the pump. I don't know the proper nomenclature for these mechanical parts, so please fill me in. I'm guessing these are the injectors ... those 4 nuts/bolts that are right together and would shoot fuel up into the fuel lines. So, I'm calling that the "injector block" ... I'm getting fuel in there, because when I opened them up, there is fuel. I took the "injector bolts" apart and they did not appear to have any foreign material in them. When I turn the key to the "acc" position, I hear the fuel pump clicking like normal, and it is working to fill that "injector block" ... but is there a second pump? Something that moves the fuel at high PSI that maybe isn't working? Is it inside that "injector block" (again, that's what I'm calling it because I have no idea what its called).. ? When I crack those bolts/nuts, fuel "seeps" but never did "shoot" out.

I'm still getting absolutely ZERO fuel up into those lines because there's isn't a puff of smoke coming when I crank her.

Oh, and please, feel free to "Doctor" my photo to properly label the components I need to be involved with.

I'm open to suggestions...

I'm wondering if... if there is an internal high pressure pump, that it could have been damaged by the contaminated fuel, or the moisture... or something like that ...?

IslandTractor · Mar 2, 2015

Is there any way to warm the whole tractor/engine for 24 hours before trying to start? Could you just tent the engine compartment and run the torpedo heater? If it has been as cold in Michigan as it is in Massachusetts, there really hasn't been a chance for equipment to warm up above freezing in the past three weeks or so. Could there be gelled fuel somewhere in the injectors that just hasn't had a chance to liquify?

TSO · Mar 2, 2015

IslandTractor said:
Is there any way to warm the whole tractor/engine for 24 hours before trying to start? Could you just tent the engine compartment and run the torpedo heater? If it has been as cold in Michigan as it is in Massachusetts, there really hasn't been a chance for equipment to warm up above freezing in the past three weeks or so. Could there be gelled fuel somewhere in the injectors that just hasn't had a chance to liquify?

Unfortunately, I can't move it to a warmer area... I could try to put a tarp over it and heat it up

IslandTractor · Mar 2, 2015

TSO said:
Unfortunately, I can't move it to a warmer area... I could try to put a tarp over it and heat it up

I'm no mechanic and I wouldn't ignore the other advice but it does seem less of a hassle to figure out some way to tent the thing and warm it up for 24 hrs before disassembling engine parts.