Clutch Noise

blueriver · Oct 21, 2011

I have another video posted in the thread about my Branson clutch noise ... though I'd put up a second one so more folks could listen to it.

I had a new clutch, pressure plate and Throw out bearing put in this spring, then a short while later it stopped shifting, the dealer had me adjust the free play then a noise developed and then went away and now its back.

I think its clutch related ... tell me what you think.

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Zork · Oct 25, 2011

IMO: Your video does not give enough view of the situation. Need more video and sound with the operators foot off of the clutch pedal and then normal operation of the clutch. I can't tell if you are at idle or mid/full throttle. Repeat this video with slow and faster idle speeds and longer duration with the camera making the operators foot operation visible.

First: Make sure that you have some free play in the clutch linkage. This will allow us to tell the difference in sounds that may or may not be related.

Second: Perform new video with "no" pressure on clutch; "no" pressure and a slowly pressing to full clutch and full release, and "no" pressure and fast pressing to full clutch and full release (do this several times). Included in the same video a "slight" pressure on the clutch (riding the clutch) and full release; "slight" pressure and slow pressing to full clutch and full release, and "slight" pressure and fast pressing to full clutch and full release.

(edit) Is that a new clutch as in "NEW" or "REBUILT"? and looking at the throwout bearing assembly of the 3820 it has a very similar hub to some old Chevrolet's with the press on/off bearing. If you do the work yourself or small shop see if it can match cross reference the size with a better quality (assumed) bearing.

blueriver · Oct 25, 2011

Okay, I'll work on that. This noise only comes about 50% of the time and never under 1500 rpm's... bump the throttle to 2000 and noise about 50% of the time.

When it does its just at the point of engagement when the tractor is just ready to move. Only when releasing not depressing, and if I let it out fast no noise...

The tractor recently had a clutch, pressure plate and T.O. Bearing installed at the dealer ... shortly after that it stopped shifting with the shuttle, per the dealer I adjusted the freeplay so it would shift smooth with the shuttle ... a few hrs later this noise devolped.

I was scheduled to take it in a few months back and the noise mysteriously stopped ... now its back.

I am thinking its clutch related ... don't know.

Fixemall · Oct 25, 2011

So they didn't have it adjusted right and it was not running true when you got it back? It is painfully obvious that the throwout is smoked again.

blueriver · Oct 25, 2011

Fixemall said:
So they didn't have it adjusted right and it was not running true when you got it back? It is painfully obvious that the throwout is smoked again.

Not according to them ... it was done right and it must be something else other than clutch, plate or T.O. bearing... the clutch petal only moved an inch before the tractor moved forward ... it used to move about half way.

Is proper adjustment (or lack of) the reason the throwout would be smoked ...

Zork · Oct 25, 2011

blueriver said:
Is proper adjustment (or lack of) the reason the throwout would be smoked ...

Could be but also, IMO, I think using the clutch at full operating rpm can be an additional practice that will cause the bearing to fail. For me I always throttle down 99% of the time when using the clutch except when I mow and have to go forward/reverse frequently, but that is infrequent most of the time.

SPYDERLK · Oct 25, 2011

blueriver said:
Not according to them ... it was done right and it must be something else other than clutch, plate or T.O. bearing... the clutch petal only moved an inch before the tractor moved forward ... it used to move about half way.

Is proper adjustment (or lack of) the reason the throwout would be smoked ...

This indicates too much freeplay in pedal. NOT harmful to the throwout, but could cause dragging clutch/hard shifting.
larry

blueriver · Oct 25, 2011

Zork said:
Could be but also, IMO, I think using the clutch at full operating rpm can be an additional practice that will cause the bearing to fail. For me I always throttle down 99% of the time when using the clutch except when I mow and have to go forward/reverse frequently, but that is infrequent most of the time.

This tractor is on the round baler, therefore the full pto rpm is used. When the chamber is full I reverse as I am tying the bale then open the gate to eject the bale, close the gate shift to forward and make the next bale.

The rpm's stay at pto speed for all clutching and shifting ... quess I need to re-evaluate this.

blueriver · Oct 25, 2011

SPYDERLK said:
This indicates too much freeplay in pedal. NOT harmful to the throwout, but could cause dragging clutch/hard shifting.
larry

Okay ... so why would it come back from the dealer set up this way? And yes the shifting of the shuttle stopped ... when I called the dealer he had me adjust it in the hay field until the shuttle shifted smooth ... didn't take much .. the pedal released about 1.5" before it engaged and the shuttle shifted smoothly ... then a couple hrs this noise.

Fixemall · Oct 25, 2011

I have a sign in my shop that says " I do it right or I don't do it" maybe they would like one. The only proper way to replace a clutch assembly for maximum longevity is to have the flywheel trued and balanced and replace the pressure plate, clutch disc, fork and bearing. All components must also be assembled clean(I once had to redo a job that was compromised because the tech dropped the bearing prior to install) Proper adjustment after replacement is also key. The slightest misalignment will shorten service life.

blueriver · Oct 25, 2011

I got about ten more days and my work for this tractor will be done for the year ... so I am trying to get it on the schedule to go back in ... I feel its got to go back to the same shop ... they did the warranty work the first time ... so I quess they are the ones.

blueriver · Oct 25, 2011

Fixemall said:
I have a sign in my shop that says " I do it right or I don't do it" maybe they would like one. The only proper way to replace a clutch assembly for maximum longevity is to have the flywheel trued and balanced and replace the pressure plate, clutch disc, fork and bearing. All components must also be assembled clean(I once had to redo a job that was compromised because the tech dropped the bearing prior to install) Proper adjustment after replacement is also key. The slightest misalignment will shorten service life.

I don't think they did anything to the flywheel or the fork. I was given, a clutch, pressure plate and bearing as my used parts.

SPYDERLK · Oct 25, 2011

blueriver said:
Okay ... so why would it come back from the dealer set up this way? And yes the shifting of the shuttle stopped ... when I called the dealer he had me adjust it in the hay field until the shuttle shifted smooth ... didn't take much .. the pedal released about 1.5" before it engaged and the shuttle shifted smoothly ... then a couple hrs this noise.

Perhaps they heard the same noise and got it to stop by adjusting excess top play. Maybe the throwout does not slide back and forth freely and remains in contact with the clutch fingers. I believe the shop made a mistake somewhere. :confused2: Pls post the solution when you know.
larry

blueriver · Oct 26, 2011

SPYDERLK said:
Perhaps they heard the same noise and got it to stop by adjusting excess top play. Maybe the throwout does not slide back and forth freely and remains in contact with the clutch fingers. I believe the shop made a mistake somewhere. :confused2: Pls post the solution when you know.
larry

Ah HAAAA ... maybe. Trying to get an appointment to get it back to the dealer.

Zork · Oct 26, 2011

blueriver said:
.....The rpm's stay at pto speed for all clutching and shifting ... quess I need to re-evaluate this.

The clutch is designed for that purpose but throttling down is a practice I was raised with and I have never had problems with clutches or throw-out bearings.

Zork · Oct 26, 2011

Do you feel any pulsing in the clutch pedal?

blueriver · Oct 26, 2011

Zork said:
Do you feel any pulsing in the clutch pedal?

No sir ... everything is smooth, clutch, all gears, all 3 ranges, shuttle shift. The only issue is the noise as the clutch engages.

It is worse when you are "easing" into things ... for example I have a 10 bale grapple and when loading as I use the clutch to slightly forward or reverse to position on the trailer. I have learned to downshift and idle back to 1500 and then no noise.

So, whats the rpm's got to do with it?

Zork · Oct 26, 2011

blueriver said:
....So, whats the rpm's got to do with it?

Interesting and this is a just a shot in the dark. Is there a pilot "Bearing" or a pilot "Bushing" on the end of the crankshaft? A worn or "dry" bushing could produce that type of noise, especially with elevated rpm's which also might cause the input shaft to rotate out of center. But I would think you would feel that somehow in the clutch pedal.

blueriver · Oct 28, 2011

Well the appointment has been made ... she goes in Monday Morning ... I told them I want to be there when the split is made and see first hand what is found.

blueriver · Oct 31, 2011

Dropped the tractor off this morning ... after listening the service manager seemed to think the throw bearing. They may be able to get to it this afternoon no later than Wednesday.

He stated if in fact it is that bearing they will have to determine why it failed.